Charging Batteries with a Portable Gennerator

[GreyLady]

I plan to buy a 2000watt petrol generator in a couple of weeks but I don't know how they are connected to the boat in order to charge the batteries.

 

Do they plug into the shoreline point on the boat and if so what cable would I need ?

 

Here is the Generator i had in mind.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00Q6U79MK/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1457938691&sr=8-2π=SX200_QL40&keywords=champion+generator&dpPl=1&dpID=41mAmku5ktL&ref=plSrch

 

Thanks

Edited March 14, 2016 by GreyLady

[Ricco1]

The way mine works is that the generator plugs into the shoreline socket. This makes the 240v system in the boat live. A battery charger is plugged into a 240v socket. The leads from the charger go to the isolator for the leisure batteries. At least that's how it used to work, before my battery charger blew up.

[Robbo]

Presuming you already have s battery charger onboard. Confirmed they plug into the shore line of the boat.. It looks like you will need a 13amp plug to 16amp socket with that genny tho, and use you normal shore line cable.

 

http://www.toolstation.com/m/part.html?p=47166. or you could just make one up with the just right amount of cable.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Robbo

[GreyLady]

The way mine works is that the generator plugs into the shoreline socket. This makes the 240v system in the boat live. A battery charger is plugged into a 240v socket. The leads from the charger go to the isolator for the leisure batteries. At least that's how it used to work, before my battery charger blew up.

 

Cheers Ricco ☺

[John V]

Plugging in via the shoreline is the simplest way to go

 

If you stick "generator earthing" into search "Forums" the first post that pops up will pretty well tell you everything you need to know in fairly clear terms.

 

When you have read it you will either be fully conversant .....or fully confused

 

if the latter....ask for clarification......but I think you should be able to follow it.....it was quite a good thread.

[GreyLady]

Presuming you already have s battery charger onboard. Confirmed they plug into the shore line of the boat.. It looks like you will need a 13amp plug to 16amp socket with that genny tho, and use you normal shore line cable.

http://www.toolstation.com/m/part.html?p=47166. or you could just make one up with the just right amount of cable.

We don't have the boat just yet but it has a Victron 12/3000 with a built in charger I think.

 

Cheers Robbo

 

When you have read it you will either be fully conversant .....or fully confused

 

I have already arrived at confusion.

 

Thanks I will have a gander in the search thingy.

[Robbo]

We don't have the boat just yet but it has a Victron 12/3000 with a built in charger I think.

 

Cheers Robbo

If that's the multiplus combi then yes it has a charger (it's usually specced 12/3000/120). You can also dial down the amount of power the shore line or genny can provide with the multiplus with the remote control panel when required, which you may need to do with this genny.

[GreyLady]

If that's the multiplus combi then yes it has a charger (it's usually specced 12/3000/120). You can also dial down the amount of power the shore line or genny can provide with the multiplus with the remote control panel when required, which you may need to do with this genny.

I think i better get the boat and genny in front of me and come back on here for step by step help Robbo, the last thing I want to do is blow an inverter up or worse.

 

Thanks

Edited March 14, 2016 by GreyLady

[Alan de Enfield]

You may find that the '2000' watt generator is only something like 1600 watts continuous rating.

If it is then it will not run a 120 amp charger unless the charger has a power factor approaching 1 (and most don't)

 

I have been investigating chargers recently with a view to using a generator and found that may chargers have a Pf of 0.6 - 0.75 and 'cheap ones' as low as 0.5

 

You will either need a bigger generator, or a smaller charger, or 'turn down' the charger output, or charge the batteries before they get too discharged (maybe 75%+)

You could also run the engine for half an hour to get the bulk charge into the batteries and then use the generator once the 'demand' has gone down.

 

Tricky stuff this elec-trickery

Found it - yup, its rated at 1600 watts.

Details :

 

Features:
2000 Max Watts
1600 Rated Watts
12v DC Automotive Style Outlet
Dual Port (2.1A/1A) USB Adapter (Included)
True sine wave inverter technology
Economy mode to save fuel
Overload protection
240V AC Load
12V DC outlet
Up to 9.5 hours run time at 25% load
53 dBA at 23 ft.
Easy pull recoil start
Low oil shut-off sensor
Stackable design
Parallel capability
Built in carrying handle

[Robbo]

The genny will run the charger as you can limit what the Victron uses. The Victron remote control panel has a dial on it, you would set it to something like 8, where it's usually at 16. If the boat doesn't have this remote control panel then it's around £80.

[GreyLady]

You may find that the '2000' watt generator is only something like 1600 watts continuous rating.

If it is then it will not run a 120 amp charger unless the charger has a power factor approaching 1 (and most don't)

 

I have been investigating chargers recently with a view to using a generator and found that may chargers have a Pf of 0.6 - 0.75 and 'cheap ones' as low as 0.5

 

You will either need a bigger generator, or a smaller charger, or 'turn down' the charger output, or charge the batteries before they get too discharged (maybe 75%+)

You could also run the engine for half an hour to get the bulk charge into the batteries and then use the generator once the 'demand' has gone down.

 

Tricky stuff this elec-trickery

Found it - yup, its rated at 1600 watts.

Details :

 

Features:

2000 Max Watts

1600 Rated Watts

12v DC Automotive Style Outlet

Dual Port (2.1A/1A) USB Adapter (Included)

True sine wave inverter technology

Economy mode to save fuel

Overload protection

240V AC Load

12V DC outlet

Up to 9.5 hours run time at 25% load

53 dBA at 23 ft.

Easy pull recoil start

Low oil shut-off sensor

Stackable design

Parallel capability

Built in carrying handle

 

So would the champion generator not work at all on a Victron 12/3000 ?

 

We don't have Honda money. Lol

The genny will run the charger as you can limit what the Victron uses. The Victron remote control panel has a dial on it, you would set it to something like 8, where it's usually at 16. If the boat doesn't have this remote control panel then it's around £80.

Cheers again that's cheered me up and lowered the needle on my worry-ometer. Edited March 14, 2016 by GreyLady

[Alan de Enfield]

The genny will run the charger as you can limit what the Victron uses. The Victron remote control panel has a dial on it, you would set it to something like 8, where it's usually at 16. If the boat doesn't have this remote control panel then it's around £80.

 

I realise that, but to avoid any problems because the OP was not aware, sometimes the replies are to the questions 'not asked' or even thought of.

 

It is not always easy to respond to a question when the knowledge level of the questioner is not known, but based on the fact the OP asked how to connect a generator to the boat I guessed they may not be aware that a 2000 watt generator was not 2000 watt, and that on 'full chat' a 120 amp charger would overload it.

 

In the days of old I would not have given any consideration to the Pf, and, have in the past burnt out a generator by overloading it ( a Honda and the magic smoke escaped from - I think - a capacitor)

[Robbo]

Remember, if your mooring doesn't have shore power you may be running this thing for two hours a day (unless the boat has solar). Using quality items for everyday use may be more cost effective long term. However buying quality items because you think you may need them may be wasteful if never really used. ie. You home mooring has shore power and getting a genny for the 2-3 weeks outing would be wasted money on any genny.

 

I've no idea about this genny's quality.

[GreyLady]

 

 

You accessed my knowledge of electrics spot on.

[Robbo]

 

I realise that, but to avoid any problems because the OP was not aware, sometimes the replies are to the questions 'not asked' or even thought of.

 

It is not always easy to respond to a question when the knowledge level of the questioner is not known, but based on the fact the OP asked how to connect a generator to the boat I guessed they may not be aware that a 2000 watt generator was not 2000 watt, and that on 'full chat' a 120 amp charger would overload it.

 

In the days of old I would not have given any consideration to the Pf, and, have in the past burnt out a generator by overloading it ( a Honda and the magic smoke escaped from - I think - a capacitor)

I think the lowest limit the Victron can be set to is 5 amp.

[GreyLady]

Remember, if your mooring doesn't have shore power you may be running this thing for two hours a day (unless the boat has solar). Using quality items for everyday use may be more cost effective long term. However buying quality items because you think you may need them may be wasteful if never really used. ie. You home mooring has shore power and getting a genny for the 2-3 weeks outing would be wasted money on any genny.

I've no idea about this genny's quality.

We have a mooring with shore power and won't be out of it more any more than 10 days at a time.

 

So I was hoping to just use the champion genny as a battery topper upper if needed.

 

I think i have a lot to learn Robbo, but being a live aboard I thought it might be good to have.

 

The reviews on YouTube for that genny are quite good, it has a strong engine apparently.

Edited March 14, 2016 by GreyLady

[Alan de Enfield]

We have a mooring with shore power and won't be out of it more any more than 10 days at a time.

 

So I was hoping to just use the champion genny as a battery topper upper.

 

Genny costs £400

 

You can run your engine for a lot of hours for £400.

You cannot run a genny outside the hours you can run the engine so there is no difference there - the engine will use less fuel and cost less.

 

Diesel £0.50 per litre / Petrol £1.00 per litre

Generator (probably) 1 litre per hour / Engine (probably) 1 litre per hour

[Richard10002]

If you intend to be Cruising most days when away, your batteries should be fairly well charged after 4-8 hrs with the engine running.... even if it was every other day. You may not need to go to the expense of a generator.

[GreyLady]

Genny costs £400

 

You can run your engine for a lot of hours for £400.

You cannot run a genny outside the hours you can run the engine so there is no difference there - the engine will use less fuel and cost less.

 

Diesel £0.50 per litre / Petrol £1.00 per litre

Generator (probably) 1 litre per hour / Engine (probably) 1 litre per hour

Are you saying don't bother Alan ?

 

If so I will take your advice and not get one.

 

I suppose we could save the £400 and put it away for when the Alternators a pa-ching.

If you intend to be Cruising most days when away, your batteries should be fairly well charged after 4-8 hrs with the engine running.... even if it was every other day. You may not need to go to the expense of a generator.

I can see a pattern forming, thanks for the help everyone.

 

Must dash out now.

[Alan de Enfield]

Are you saying don't bother Alan ?

 

If so I will take your advice and not get one.

 

I suppose we could save the £400 and put it away for when the Alternators a pa-ching.

 

Lets just say :

Fuel - it costs £1 per hour (probably more when under load) to run the generator.

Fuel - it costs £0.50 per hour to run the engine.

Taking a worse case of maintenance costs & wear & tear being another £0.50 per hour

Total cost of engine running £1 per hour

 

Running costs the 'same'.

 

You don't have the inconvenience of having to store the generator somewhere (draining out the petrol before putting it in a locker etc etc)

You don't have to worry about lifting it out onto the towpath, it being 'tripped over' or being stolen

You don't have to store petrol ( and all of the BSS requirements and safety aspects)

You don't have to spend £400 on something you don't need.

 

Edit to add -

I have a generator but my boat & boating is very different to a Nb and the canals. When on the canals we didn't have a genny.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

Get your boat, use it and then decide what extras that firstly you NEED and then the ones you want.

[cuthound]

Get your boat, use it and then decide what extras that firstly you NEED and then the ones you want.

Sound advice indeed.

 

We have a home mooring with electriçkery, and find that when out and about cruising for 4-6 hours every other day returns the batteries to 100% charge. Obviously the batteries remain at100% charge when on the home mooring.

 

Besides, cruising is much more fun than sitting tied to the bank, listening to the genny buzz away

[Tony Brooks]

One thing to note about battery charging from generators. Many of the better quality ones have a 12V outlet supposedly for battery charging but the output is unregulated and supplies very limited current. Unless it is a dire emergency it is always better to go down the generator plus charger route that to use the 12V outlet.

[GreyLady]

Lets just say :

Fuel - it costs £1 per hour (probably more when under load) to run the generator.

Fuel - it costs £0.50 per hour to run the engine.

Taking a worse case of maintenance costs & wear & tear being another £0.50 per hour

Total cost of engine running £1 per hour

 

Running costs the 'same'.

 

You don't have the inconvenience of having to store the generator somewhere (draining out the petrol before putting it in a locker etc etc)

You don't have to worry about lifting it out onto the towpath, it being 'tripped over' or being stolen

You don't have to store petrol ( and all of the BSS requirements and safety aspects)

You don't have to spend £400 on something you don't need.

 

Edit to add -

I have a generator but my boat & boating is very different to a Nb and the canals. When on the canals we didn't have a genny.

We won't bother getting one Alan.

 

Cheers for the advice, I did not fancy having petrol on the boat anyhow.

Get your boat, use it and then decide what extras that firstly you NEED and then the ones you want.

Yep that sounds more logical than buying everythink imaginable like wot we've been doing for 6 month.

Sound advice indeed.

We have a home mooring with electriçkery, and find that when out and about cruising for 4-6 hours every other day returns the batteries to 100% charge. Obviously the batteries remain at100% charge when on the home mooring.

Besides, cruising is much more fun than sitting tied to the bank, listening to the genny buzz away

Yes cruising sounds much more fun than hiding in a boat while gongoozlers stare at ya. Lol

One thing to note about battery charging from generators. Many of the better quality ones have a 12V outlet supposedly for battery charging but the output is unregulated and supplies very limited current. Unless it is a dire emergency it is always better to go down the generator plus charger route that to use the 12V outlet.

Thank Tony.

[Ricco1]

Did you get yourself a mooring on the Macc in the end?