Re-plumbing narrowboat - choice of system

[PGD]

My 30yr old narrow boat has a water leak, which I'm fairly certain comes from the pressurised domestic supply. But the plumbing is 30yo too, an American system called "Qest". It has a reputation for the joints - plastic pipe compression fitting using a brass ring - eventually failing.
I knew sooner or later I'd have to re-plumb, now seems a good time. I know of three systems: Hep2o, John Guest & Tectite. I've spoken to a trusted fitter who's used all three on land & has no strong preference for any, nor has he a bad word for any.
Does anyone have recent experience of fitting plumbing to a boat? Can they tell me what system they used & how easy was it to work with please?

 

I've read the thread on the PRV with interest & will look v carefully at the fitting at the inlet at the bottom of my (vertical) calorifier. To the best of my knowledge of plumbing (v limited) the calorifier seems to have neither header nor PRV - unless the union at the inlet (marked 2bar IIRC) is designed just to drip on the floor to release pressure - it hasn't done yet & certainly isn't the source of the current leak (which I think is behind an inaccessible panel).

Any advice welcome, please!

[system 4-50]

My vote is for JG.

[b0atman]

Hep 20 seems to be readily available

[MtB]

JG Speedfit is best in my opinion too. HEP²O is good too. Tectite is a system for use only with rigid copper tube so best avoided in boats, as prone to frost damage.

[WotEver]

I did a stack of plumbing a couple of years ago using JG Speedfit (I have a Screwfix just around the corner) and found it dead easy to use and completely reliable. The only thing I found difficult was separating joints when necessary - the clips are VERY stiff.

 

Tony

[MtB]

Eh?

 

Wot clips??

[system 4-50]

If somebody has bothered to put the locking clips in, for those joints that don't have twist locks, then JG do a little tool for removing them. I think I'm right in saying this. But I suspect using the clips is rare.

[Batavia]

I would use the JG system - but with the clips, as I have had joints come apart without them!

 

Chris G

[alan_fincher]

Are we talking about the current JG Speedfit range?

 

I used that in earnest for work I did on Flamingo last year, and say nothing about locking clips.

 

On the whole I found it easy to use, but was disappointed when 2 joints leaked when I pressurised the system. This has never happened to me with Hep2O.

 

In each case I found the O ring was not in its correct position. I had used the proper cutting tool, the proper inserts, and I believe inserted the pipes cleanly the first time at the correct alignment. I don't know whether the O ring was not correctly seated before I tried to make the joint, or whether it was me pushing the pipe that unseated it.

Now if using J G Speedfit again, (I probably still would), I would visually check each fitting to see that the O rings were in the correct place before attempting to make the joint.

 

For some taps I used the modern Hep2O instead, (nothing at all like any previous generation of Hep2O). Seems OK, but pricier, but needs special tools to take it apart again, (which I really must get around to buying!).

[Hairy Animal]

Screwfix do a kit (81920) which is quite expensive but versatile. They sometimes have it in one of their daily or weekly special offers when it becomes more affordable.

[raymondh]

Are we talking about the current JG Speedfit range?

 

I used that in earnest for work I did on Flamingo last year, and say nothing about locking clips.

 

On the whole I found it easy to use, but was disappointed when 2 joints leaked when I pressurised the system. This has never happened to me with Hep2O.

 

In each case I found the O ring was not in its correct position. I had used the proper cutting tool, the proper inserts, and I believe inserted the pipes cleanly the first time at the correct alignment. I don't know whether the O ring was not correctly seated before I tried to make the joint, or whether it was me pushing the pipe that unseated it.

 

Now if using J G Speedfit again, (I probably still would), I would visually check each fitting to see that the O rings were in the correct place before attempting to make the joint.

 

For some taps I used the modern Hep2O instead, (nothing at all like any previous generation of Hep2O). Seems OK, but pricier, but needs special tools to take it apart again, (which I really must get around to buying!).

Do you mean these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/hep2o-hx79-15w-push-fit-hepkey-plus-set/8639f

 

£5 plus on ebay!!!! 69 pence at Screwfix

 

Ray

[WotEver]

Eh?

 

Wot clips??

Them ones wot you push back into the fitting to release the claws to enable you to pull out the pipe that you cut too short...

[Batavia]

I was referring to the collet locking clips, which you put in to stop the end of the fitting from getting pushed in and hence releasing its grip on the pipe.

 

Chris G

[WotEver]

I was referring to the collet locking clips, which you put in to stop the end of the fitting from getting pushed in and hence releasing its grip on the pipe.

 

Chris G

Yup, I know you were, Chris. But I was referring to the ring that the collet clips prevent form moving... it can be very stiff indeed to push in to release the pipe.

 

If that makes any sense.

 

Tony

[Jon12345]

Are we talking about the current JG Speedfit range?

 

I used that in earnest for work I did on Flamingo last year, and say nothing about locking clips.

 

On the whole I found it easy to use, but was disappointed when 2 joints leaked when I pressurised the system. This has never happened to me with Hep2O.

 

In each case I found the O ring was not in its correct position. I had used the proper cutting tool, the proper inserts, and I believe inserted the pipes cleanly the first time at the correct alignment. I don't know whether the O ring was not correctly seated before I tried to make the joint, or whether it was me pushing the pipe that unseated it.

 

Now if using J G Speedfit again, (I probably still would), I would visually check each fitting to see that the O rings were in the correct place before attempting to make the joint.

 

For some taps I used the modern Hep2O instead, (nothing at all like any previous generation of Hep2O). Seems OK, but pricier, but needs special tools to take it apart again, (which I really must get around to buying!).

 

That's quite common on the 22mm speedfit, happens if the fitting have been in stock and become dry and dusty. The O ring snags on the pipe.

 

You can use this to help:

 

http://www.plumbingforless.co.uk/plumbing/hep2o-fittings/hep2o-ancillaries/wavin-hep2o-jointing-silicone-lubricant-spray-400ml-aerosol-can-hx200

 

Or a good dose of spit!

[smileypete]

JG Speedfit is best in my opinion too. HEP²O is good too. Tectite is a system for use only with rigid copper tube so best avoided in boats, as prone to frost damage.

 

Really, why do you think so? The FAQ on their website clearly states otherwise:

 

http://www.tectite.co.uk/EN/TechSupport/FAQs

 

I'd say a good choice of metal pushfit and PEX tube gives the best combination of appearance, durabilty and frost resistance.

 

For the OP I'd suggest that the calorifier and all connecting pipes are very well lagged/insulated, to keep it's heat and provide a degree of frost protection.

 

Also the pipe on coils can sometimes be tricky to get a tidy result, this may not matter if the pipework is hidden and the OP isn't too OCD.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[PGD]

Thank you, everyone. I'm leaning very much to JG Speedfit.

 

Smileypete, I'm v OCD when it comes to some things, but all this pipework is going to be "out of sight, out of mind!" All I want is that it'll be ok & maintenance free for 30yrs (as was the original "Qest"), After 30yrs I rather doubt I'll be in much position to care!

 

For the same reason I'm not too bothered about how easy it is to take apart: measure twice, cut once. I know that barnstorming in without thinking it all through is my weakness, so I'll damn well have to be disciplined. And make darn sure I cut the right pipe.

 

Lagging: the calorifier has the std spray foam, but none of the original pipework is lagged. This is something I'll put right with the new system, as well s beefing up insulation around the tank. It'll be nice to wash in warm water on a cold winter morning!

[alan_fincher]

I was referring to the collet locking clips, which you put in to stop the end of the fitting from getting pushed in and hence releasing its grip on the pipe.

 

Chris G

 

Unless I'm missing something, with the most modern Speedfit you give the the collet a twist after inserting the pipe, and this locks things, so the pipe will not release until the collet is given the same positive twist back in the other direction. That seems something that couldn't happen by accident.

[blackrose]

My vote is for JG.

 

Me too Speedfit is easier than Hep in terms of being true "make and break" joints that can easily be taken apart by hand with no tools. The locking rings mean they can't come apart by themselves.

 

As an amateur DIY plumber I found I often had to take joints apart when I got things wrong the first time and the Speedfit I used was much easier to work with than the Hep the boat builder had used.

[WotEver]

 

Unless I'm missing something, with the most modern Speedfit you give the the collet a twist after inserting the pipe, and this locks things, so the pipe will not release until the collet is given the same positive twist back in the other direction. That seems something that couldn't happen by accident.

I know where Chris got confused because I made the same mistake. Screwfix do both Speedfit and Flofit.

 

Flofit are the ones I struggled a bit with and which have collet clips.

 

Speedfit are far nicer to use and have the twist-lock system.

 

I accidentally ended up using both on my last plumbing job and Speecfit was by far the better of the two, but more expensive.

 

Tony

[blackrose]

 

For the same reason I'm not too bothered about how easy it is to take apart: measure twice, cut once. I know that barnstorming in without thinking it all through is my weakness, so I'll damn well have to be disciplined. And make darn sure I cut the right pipe.

 

It's not just about making mistakes. Sometimes when you want to add something or modify a system it's useful to be able to take a joint apart easily.

Edited March 3, 2016 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

I think we need to be careful not to confuse older generations of each product with the current offerings.

 

Both JG Speedfit and the last two generations of Hep2O can easily be taken apart and reassembled as may times as you like. (It is only the older Hep2O that can't be taken apart and remade).

 

The difference is that Hep20 requires a cheap tool to do so, whereas JG Speedfit does not.

 

Some could see it as an advantage that a system will only come apart with the tool, although if Speedfit is used properly, it will not accidentally come apart.

 

Speedfit seems to be consistently the cheaper, which will appeal to those who have significant amounts to plumb.

 

There is, of course, no limits on mixing and matching multiple systems, because the actual pipe sizes are the same.

 

The only issue I found with the switch to Speedfit is the issue of the O rings becoming unseated as the pipe was pushed in. I have never experienced similar with Hep2O.

[MtB]

I was referring to the collet locking clips, which you put in to stop the end of the fitting from getting pushed in and hence releasing its grip on the pipe.

 

Chris G

 

 

Those were superceded by new design fittings that don't required them 15 years ago!!!!!!!!!

[NMEA]

 

 

Those were superceded by new design fittings that don't required them 15 years ago!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if he is referring the blue and red identifier "C" clips which fit in the gap left when the latest generation of JG are tightened up, they can be a pain to get out and they also look like a locking clip.

Edit to add my vote would be for JG too when it can be hidden but I love Tectite Sprint when using exposed copper pipe on CH systems where one has frost protection from the AF solution.

Edited March 4, 2016 by NMEA

[WotEver]

I wonder if he is referring the blue and red identifier "C" clips which fit in the gap left when the latest generation of JG are tightened up, they can be a pain to get out and they also look like a locking clip.

 

Possibly, or perhaps (like me) he also had some FloPlast fittings mixed in with the JG stuff and used these:

Tony