How can boaters become CRT's priority customer?

[bassplayer]

... it's going to have to get worse before it gets better.

 

Regards kris

Looks that way doesn't it?

 

So far on my recent travels I've seen locks with lots of missing brickwork. Gates and paddles which are difficult for most normal people to operate. Water levels not being managed properly. Areas which are very difficult to pass due to lack of dredging. Vegitation overgrowing in places where it makes navigation dangerous.

 

This on top of an organisation which gets fatter by the minute. Who have very few senior management with a boating background. Who seem to discorage boating, divert too much funding to enforcement, put up pointless signage and and set up committees who don't seem to achieve much other than justify their existence.

 

Ok, maybe this is all very negative and so far we're still enjoying our travels. However sadly I don't see this continuing in the future. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[MtB]

As an example, have you tried coming down the GU towards London recently?

 

I cannot agree with your assessment, Mike. Much of it is visibly far worse than it was when I returned to boat ownership about 12 years ago.

 

We now have locks, and lock approaches with long lengths of coping stones fallen away, bollards ripped from the ground, and large hollows in tow-paths you can see running water at the bottom of.

 

Some short pounds are now more like bits of the BCN, regularly going empty overnight, and needing refilling before you can proceed.

 

 

I think we are each extrapolating our personal experience to the whole of the system. I boat mostly on the southern Oxford and the eastern K&A where I rarely if ever experience the problems you describe.

But if things are as bad as you describe on the southern GU, I'd say it will be the hire boat companies who have the clout to apply pressure to CRT to get things fixed, rather than the disparate band of squabbling private boaters we all are.

[jenlyn]

 

 

This is my impression too. as I find them, the waterways are in as good a general condition as they've ever been. Yes there are a mountain of problems but I reckon that mountain is smaller now than its ever been since the sixties.

 

The problem with fixing stuff and making the cut ever easier to navigate, is that it raises boaters' expectations. No matter how easy it becomes to navigate the system there will always be demands for it to be made even easier.

Utter tosh. Saying something for the sake of saying it.

Thanks to people like yourself, we will see the canal system deteriorate into "Canal and river trust present a natural theme park winding its way through villages and cuttings".

 

Oh well.

[alan_fincher]

But if things are as bad as you describe on the southern GU, I'd say it will be the hire boat companies who have the clout to apply pressure to CRT to get things fixed...........

There are now, I believe only 2 hire boat companies having bases on the Southern GU, (and indeed that number doesn't increase if you take in the whole of the Regents and the Lee and Stort.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one!

[bassplayer]

I think we are each extrapolating our personal experience to the whole of the system. I boat mostly on the southern Oxford and the eastern K&A where I rarely if ever experience the problems you describe.But if things are as bad as you describe on the southern GU, I'd say it will be the hire boat companies who have the clout to apply pressure to CRT to get things fixed, rather than the disparate band of squabbling private boaters we all are.

Hire boat companies do have clout but they only need 20 miles or so in either direction to stay in business. What happens to areas which don't have a hire boat company nearby?

 

We can only go on our personal experiences and I'm glad things aren't too bad where you are Mike. Let's hope that will continue. Having said that, you did say 'rarely'. It only takes one breach or lock failure to cut off the navigation.

[MtB]

There are now, I believe only 2 hire boat companies having bases on the Southern GU, (and indeed that number doesn't increase if you take in the whole of the Regents and the Lee and Stort.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one!

 

Maybe this IS the root of the reason for the difference. The coping stones don't get replaced because there is so little hire boat trade?

 

Last time I did the GU from Braunston to London was about ten years ago and it was a pretty depressing journey. I'm not surprised there isn't a lot of hire boat demand down there.

[bassplayer]

 

Last time I did the GU from Braunston to London was about ten years ago and it was a pretty depressing journey. I'm not surprised there isn't a lot of hire boat demand down there.

You are kidding, depressing?

 

I recon the GU, especially between Berko and Braunston is amongst the prettiest canals in the country. Are you sure you go boating? Have you been up the Aylesbury arm? That might be the first to go.

[MtB]

You are kidding, depressing?

 

I recon the GU, especially between Berko and Braunston is amongst the prettiest canals in the country. Are you sure you go boating? Have you been up the Aylesbury arm? That might be the first to go.

 

 

Well yes that bit is fine but from there down to Brentford, the further you go the crappier it gets. Never again, a most depressing trip after being accustomed to the southern Oxfrod and the Thames.

[billS]

Having been based on the K&A and now currently based on the South Oxford, and having done the southern Grand Union a couple of years ago, I think we more westerly based boaters just have lower expectations.

[bassplayer]

Well yes that bit is fine but from there down to Brentford, the further you go the crappier it gets. Never again, a most depressing trip after being accustomed to the southern Oxfrod and the Thames.

That stretch becomes less pretty in places but more interesting. It would be a real shame if the Thames ring got cut off at that point. Birmingham thrives on it's canal network, it's a pity London is a bit behind in places. I agree the South Oxford and Thames are very nice. Back down there and the K&A later this year....I'll wave.

[MtB]

That stretch becomes less pretty in places but more interesting. It would be a real shame if the Thames ring got cut off at that point. Birmingham thrives on it's canal network, it's a pity London is a bit behind in places. I agree the South Oxford and Thames are very nice. Back down there and the K&A later this year....I'll wave.

 

Stop by for a cuppa or a pint and a chat.

 

Need to ask you how to play bass too!

[pete.i]

As usual I am out on a limb on this one.

 

If I were in charge of CRT (now there is a terrifying thought for some of you) I am afraid for the first few years I would be doing more or less what CRT are doing. They have been charged as I understand it with making the system accessible as a national leisure resource. They know boaters are committed to the canals and will keep paying a license. However many of the rest of the nation aren't terribly aware of canals and their value.

 

I would try to spread the message and get more people aware and using the canals in the early years. The advantages of this are a lever with government when they are trying to cut funding (as they undoubtedly will as years go by) more people realising they can use and enjoy the canals the more "friends" (OK I would prefer a membership system but friends = an income stream however small)

 

As rgreg points out in #45 whilst not doing everything boaters want (how could they you couldn't get boaters to agree what needed to be done) they certainly aren't walking away from breaches etc.

 

Having spread the appeal of the canals to a wider "audience" they can then start to deal with things on a more equal basis. I firmly believe that it is possible to have a canal system which is "all things to all men" (and women). There are ways to make the towpath usable to dog walkers, families cyclists and fishermen. The canal of course can be maintained and who knows even improved.

 

It will be even more unpopular than my views above when I say I believe the enforcement process is part of the process I am outlining. It isn't possible to manage a system as large as the canals without control of ALL users which I think will come eventually. Currently boaters are the ones which are registered and therefore easy to target. Discipline s required from the users of any organisation.

 

Right I have got my tin hat on, sandbags out to shield from the blast and flame proof overalls. I will retire to the bunker.

Well I have been doing that for the last 3 years or so. I was volunteering for the Canal and River Explorers. We would take groups of primary school children around the locks, I was based at Bingley, and tell them about canal history etc etc. I do think that that is the way to go as far as making people aware of the canals and what they actually mean to Great Britain. I have stopped volunteering with the Bingley group now because of the distance that I had to travel to get there. I will volunteer again if and when C&RT start an Explorers group nearer to where I live. But as a boater I could see that C&RT didn't seem to be taking an awful lot of notice of boaters who, and I really do not care how many figures people throw at me, pay a massive amount into the C&RT coffers. It all seems to be about cyclists, walkers and anglers.

[alan_fincher]

Having been based on the K&A and now currently based on the South Oxford, and having done the southern Grand Union a couple of years ago, I think we more westerly based boaters just have lower expectations.

 

The debate to me was about whether things are improving, worsening, or remaining largely the same.

 

For the waterway I know best, (because I live there, and our boats both have home moorings there), I think I'm being fairly objective when I say that things are getting worse.

 

As I said that is not just a personal view - the HNBC has recently raised it as an important issue.

 

Whether any part of the GU is better or worse than some part of the Oxford or the K&A was not what I was trying to discuss, (nor necessarily feel qualified to discuss). It's an interesting debate, particularly if you extend it to canals like the L&L, (where I would assume expectations about maintenance standards just have to be less!), but the fact one canal is better maintained than another right now, doesn't in isolation actually tell us anything about upward or downward trends on any of them.

[bassplayer]

Stop by for a cuppa or a pint and a chat.

 

Need to ask you how to play bass too!

Cool. I'll PM you when we get near Reading. As regards bass, just plod away on the root note of the chord and you'll get away with it...it's worked for me for years....

[jenlyn]

Like I've been saying for the last couple of years, CRT give you a problem that enables them to help take your eyes off the real issue.

Wake up folks, the "navigation" is under threat of being lost.

[bassplayer]

Like I've been saying for the last couple of years, CRT give you a problem that enables them to help take your eyes off the real issue.

Wake up folks, the "navigation" is under threat of being lost.

Unfortunately it's natural law that nothing will happen unless enough people become affected or outraged by the situation. I think it's also compacted by the fact more and more of us prefer to stare at a screen in the comfort of our homes rather than experience the outside world. This is where marketing forces have got us by the goolies sadly.

 

I'm sure films and TV programs about the history of the canals will keep everyone happy in the future. I wish I could feel more positive about the situation. Time for a cruise I think...

[Graham Davis]

Like I've been saying for the last couple of years, CRT give you a problem that enables them to help take your eyes off the real issue.

Wake up folks, the "navigation" is under threat of being lost.

 

Change the record!!

[jenlyn]

 

Change the record!!

Perhaps you should join the "gene" thread

[fanshaft]

Some really interesting debate here, with conflicting points of view - very healthy!

Navigation is the first priority of the Trust - it is its first Objective (with a note that this includes for freight). Trustees have to ensure that this object is met as far as reasonably possible give the resources available. Three of the trustees have a boating interest, and two own their own boats. The Chief Executive is well known as a keen boater who loves to take the tiller or work locks in his free time, while the Head of Boating (Mike Grimes) told me that contrary to reports he was brought up 'messing about on boats' on the Norfolk Broads and is very much 'on message'.

So we are in a good position, with record levels of dredging (the recent long line dredging on the L&L probably the first since before WW2), and the major assets, without which we have no boating, being in very good condition (reservoirs, embankments etc).

Of course we should continue to engage with the Trust to ensure that navigation remains top priority, recognising that if the Trust is to continue to receive and increase its non boating and property income it needs to reach out to the non boating community, and if that means 'pandering' to the anglers, walkers or cyclists we probably have to learn to live with that.

regards

David L

[peterboat]

Personally, I have seen no evidence to suggest that CRT are not prioritising boating; their response to incidents in the North last year such as breaches, and this year to repair flood damage (which they have publicly declared is a current priority), has not seemed to lack urgency. Perhaps there is evidence of different priorities elsewhere, but I have found the CRT North West region to be communicative with boaters and issues raised have been addressed. To be fair, the way some boaters speak to the CRT representatives at meetings I wouldn't blame them if they had closed their ears to them. The main contention that I am aware of is against increased enforcement and this is from the group who want to use the canals on their terms and not within the rules. As some have said, I think the boating community have a problem speaking with a coherent voice as people have different agendas.

greenie good post we have plenty of constant moorers around us at the moment they complain about everything yet dont want to pay for a mooring. a classic the other weeks was well if the canal is closed to sheffield i will have to stay here until it reopens, i asked do you have a mooring there, no they said well says i the other direction is still open so you can move that way. funny thing a couple of days later they did when the enforcement officer moved them on.

[jenlyn]

greenie good post we have plenty of constant moorers around us at the moment they complain about everything yet dont want to pay for a mooring. a classic the other weeks was well if the canal is closed to sheffield i will have to stay here until it reopens, i asked do you have a mooring there, no they said well says i the other direction is still open so you can move that way. funny thing a couple of days later they did when the enforcement officer moved them on.

[dogless]

Cool. I'll PM you when we get near Reading. As regards bass, just plod away on the root note of the chord and you'll get away with it...it's worked for me for years....

Cool. I'll PM you when we get near Reading. As regards bass, just plod away on the root note of the chord and you'll get away with it...it's worked for me for years....

Root and fifth

simple but effective

Rog

[bassplayer]

Root and fifth

simple but effective

Rog

I chuck in the odd 3rd too if I'm bored...

[dogless]

I chuck in the odd 3rd too if I'm bored...

You really are a bass player

Rog

[bassplayer]

You really are a bass player

Rog

...because I'm grumpy and get bored? Absolutely