Victron Inverter Help needed - Multiplus

[Loafer]

 

 

 

Thanks both!

Will try them too, seems a bit weird it cant be fixed in the UK

 

Another reason I've gorn orff 'em!

 

I took mine to a local electronics workshop after a reassuring phone call. They found that one of the burned-out 'bits' was a special self-emitting Z-class non-inductive Thyrocapacitor Quintode, which had been made specifically for Victron and couldn't be sourced.

 

I just nicked back my huge 12V cables and left it with them. Bye bye.

 

Suckerrrrr...

Edited December 3, 2015 by Loafer

[WotEver]

 

I took mine to a local electronics workshop after a reassuring phone call. They found that one of the burned-out 'bits' was a special self-emitting Z-class non-inductive Thyrocapacitor Quintode, which had been made specifically for Victron and couldn't be sourced...

See, that's why you shouldn't take it to local guys. Someone with more experience would have known that it was nothing more than a faulty Turbo Encabulator.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o&feature=youtu.be

[blackrose]

Victron, Mastervolt, etc, are great bits of kit when they work. However, in my experience and also from forum anecdotes they're just far too delicate, complex and temperamental.

 

As an example, my neighbour's expensive Mastervolt combi wouldn't work at the moorings and after a lot of faffing around including talking it off and getting it checked by the supplier, we eventually worked out that the incoming mains supply voltage was too high (around 257v). For much of this time the poor chap (who in good faith had bought what was considered the best kit) had no mains supply in the middle of winter. Meanwhile my cheapo sterling charger was working fine from the mains throughout. Another bloke with a Victron combi had had the same issues and actually left the moorings because of it. Eventually the electricity supplier came and sorted out the problem.

 

On boats simple and robust is best. Now, while I do understand that complex electrics need to be protected from high or low voltages, and these combis are just protecting themselves, I also think that being left without power doesn't really help the user very much in those situations. When moving around one can never know what sort of power supply one might hook up to, so delicate equipment isn't fit for purpose in my opinion. These examples are probably off topic, but it's probably some other complex "feature" of the Victron which is causing the OPs problem.

Edited December 4, 2015 by blackrose

[bottle]

The Mastervolt in that situation not only protected itself, it also protected the equipment on-board and ultimately the boat users.

[blackrose]

The Mastervolt in that situation not only protected itself, it also protected the equipment on-board and ultimately the boat users.

Yes, but all my equipment worked without any problem. I talked to a friend who's an electrician and he said I wasn't in any danger.

 

Surely if you want some voltage regulation on the boat then you could add that, but to have a unit that simply shuts down and cuts off your supply is ridiculous, especially when it gives you no clue why it's doing that.

[nicknorman]

Yes, but all my equipment worked without any problem. I talked to a friend who's an electrician and he said I wasn't in any danger.

Surely if you want some voltage regulation on the boat then you could add that, but to have a unit that simply shuts down and cuts off your supply is ridiculous, especially when it gives you no clue why it's doing that.

Our mastervolt has maximum input of 265v. The point is not really one about safety, it is about the possibility of damaging equipment, not only the inverter but stuff that is connected to it. For example a heating device (kettle, hairdryer, radiator etc) rated at 2kw at 230v will be producing 2.66kw at 265v. There will come a point when such things will overheat and be damaged. It is just a matter of at what threshold you set the limit.

[bottle]

 

Our mastervolt has maximum input of 265v.

 

As it should do.

 

Parameters for electricity supply voltage in the country are nominal 240v, plus 10%, minus 6% so that is 264v and 225.6v

 

So maybe the Mastervolt was faulty or its settings had been changed or the voltage at the supply was higher when the 'fault' happened.

 

edit; hit post button to soon.

Edited December 4, 2015 by bottle

[blackrose]

Anyway, my point is that some of this equipment is too sophisticated and delicate, and not robust enough for the purpose it's intended. Just my opinion.

[raymondh]

 

As it should do.

 

Parameters for electricity supply voltage in the country are nominal 240v, plus 10%, minus 6% so that is 264v and 225.6v

 

So maybe the Mastervolt was faulty or its settings had been changed or the voltage at the supply was higher when the 'fault' happened.

 

edit; hit post button to soon.

Sorry

The law in the UK currently states that the mains supply voltage must be 230 V +10% / -6%, thereby allowing the European 220 V system to stay at 220 V and the UK to stay at 240 V, yet both appear to be harmonised!

Ray

[ditchcrawler]

filament lamps wont last so long at 265 volts. I would also suggest something like a bread maker wouldn't work to well, probably loafs of toast and as for the toaster that would also have a short life.

[Justme]

Our mastervolt has maximum input of 265v. The point is not really one about safety, it is about the possibility of damaging equipment, not only the inverter but stuff that is connected to it. For example a heating device (kettle, hairdryer, radiator etc) rated at 2kw at 230v will be producing 2.66kw at 265v. There will come a point when such things will overheat and be damaged. It is just a matter of at what threshold you set the limit.

 

 

No it wont.

 

It will just draw less current for the same wattage. So 2kw at 230v is 8.69 amps yet at 265v is just 7.54 amps.

 

High voltage does damage sensitive electronics.

 

The Victron owner could have set the acceptable incoming voltage much higher at 270v.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

No it wont.

 

It will just draw less current for the same wattage. So 2kw at 230v is 8.69 amps yet at 265v is just 7.54 amps.

 

 

How does the resistance of the element change then?

[nicknorman]

No it wont.

 

It will just draw less current for the same wattage. So 2kw at 230v is 8.69 amps yet at 265v is just 7.54 amps.

 

No it won't. A constant power device with electronics will act as you say, for example a battery charger. However a heating device such as I mentioned, comprises a resistive heating element without any clever switching. So with the formula for power being voltage squared divided by resistance, you can see that the power increases with the square of the voltage. That of course presumes constant resistance and I'll give you that incandescent devices will typically have slightly higher resistance at higher temperatures so the increased power will be a bit less than the v squared ratio.

 

But anyway an obvious real world example is a light bulb. At higher voltages it glows brighter because it is taking more power, roughly in proportion to v squared.

[blackrose]

I measured voltages as high as 263v on my boat with a properly calibrated meter from work, but none of my equipment was damaged.

[cuthound]

I measured voltages as high as 263v on my boat with a properly calibrated meter from work, but none of my equipment was damaged.

Some equipment will be OK, particularly equipment fitted with switch mode power supplies, as these are constant power devices, and reduce current consumed when the voltage is high.

 

Resistive devices such as motors and light bulbs will have their life reduced.

 

It is because of this that the electricity supply companies have statutory limits and MUST address the problem if voltage or frequency is outside of these limits.

 

This is why those with critical power requirements, (hospitals, communications, data centres etc trip the mains when it is outside of limits and start there standby generators, an option not usually available to boaters:)

[Justme]

 

But anyway an obvious real world example is a light bulb. At higher voltages it glows brighter because it is taking more power, roughly in proportion to v squared.

 

 

Good point.

[Lanners]

Hi all,

 

Following on from this, the inverter needs to go back to the Netherlands to be repaired.

 

So my question is, can I remove the inverter, and to keep our shore power, connect the AC IN and AC OUT together, and then put a 12V battery charger on the 12V line to keep that going?

 

Thanks

 

 

[WotEver]

Hi all,

 

Following on from this, the inverter needs to go back to the Netherlands to be repaired.

 

So my question is, can I remove the inverter, and to keep our shore power, connect the AC IN and AC OUT together, and then put a 12V battery charger on the 12V line to keep that going?

 

Thanks

 

 

Briefly, yes ?

 

No doubt this thread will now fill up with loads of spurious warnings of the dangers of playing with 240V etc. I'll simply say that if you're not confident to do what you described then best to get someone else to do it for you - no offence intended if you are confident.

[Lanners]

Briefly, yes

 

No doubt this thread will now fill up with loads of spurious warnings of the dangers of playing with 240V etc. I'll simply say that if you're not confident to do what you described then best to get someone else to do it for you - no offence intended if you are confident.

 

Thanks, I'm confident, but just wanted to run it past the forum to be sure.

 

Cheers

[nicknorman]

Just to corroborate, yes it will be fine.

[Justme]

It is what I would do.

[by'eck]

It is what I would do.

 

Me too

[Loafer]

And me!

 

(And I wouldn't buy another bleedin' Victron!)

[Lanners]

What brand/s are better? - just in case it's not worth getting fixed

[Loafer]

Well I presently very happy with Sterling's 40A job, with the optional remote control in the saloon. Does exactly what it says on the box, and at a good price.

 

Many folk will poo-poo Sterling stuff, but on and off over the years, I've had several good Sterling chargers on different boats and always been happy.

 

I've had TWO Victron Multipluses die on me in the last 6 years. Just saying!