Is time up for diesel engines?

[peterboat]

Yes, you're right, I worded that badly, it should have been next to no CO.

 

But as far as the MOT test is concerned we are looking at smoke rather than the make up of the exhaust gasses

 

The VW issue is related to NOx emissions, the EPA have given VW the criteria they must meet in their rolling road test, VW fudged it by using some swift software footwork.

 

Its nothing to do with an equivalent of our MOT test or smoke for that matter.

i said the same couple of posts up no probs

[Guest]

Yes, you're right, I worded that badly, it should have been next to no CO.

 

But as far as the MOT test is concerned we are looking at smoke rather than the make up of the exhaust gasses

 

The VW issue is related to NOx emissions, the EPA have given VW the criteria they must meet in their rolling road test, VW fudged it by using some swift software footwork.

 

Its nothing to do with an equivalent of our MOT test or smoke for that matter.

Cheers Gazza I know this.

 

I was just highlighting the crap article on radio 2 .

[gazza]

i said the same couple of posts up no probs

 

My head hurts thinking of the scale of things for VW, think of the workshop time on cars in warranty to flash a new map to them.

Then think of the arsey customers who get a wheezy asthmatic car back...

Then you have the issue of cars outside warranty, In the US I guess there will be no choice but to have them done.

 

Here in the UK our metric is CO2, so do we need to? Will the yanks say its not fair for one county to emit 40 times more NOx in the same vehicles that they have had recalled?

 

Its going to be interesting watching it play out that's for sure.

Cheers Gazza I know this.

 

I was just highlighting the crap article on radio 2 .

You call him that too?

 

Jeremy has several other NSFW names but I shall refrain from using them

 

It's a shame, Chris Evans, Ken Bruce and even (say it quietly...) Steve Wright do a good job, then from 12-2 rent a gob comes on and buggers it up!

Edited September 23, 2015 by gazza

[Alan de Enfield]

............... they didnt however do a 2.5 diesel the s type is 2.7 .................

 

I know that, I was going to buy one but the petrol just seemed so much more 'refined'.

 

No idea why my fingers took control and put 2.5 instead of 2.7.

(I blame Winnie the Pooh)

[Alan Saunders]

i am fed up with governments (UK, EU, USA etc) who make inadequate laws that force vehicle designers to limit their designs to the most economical or 'safe' that will comply with stupid Government laws rather than the best that the manufacturers can provide.

 

My '52 Clio 80 attracts a VED of £20, I do not have the option of six months, it probably costs the inefficient government agency £10 to collect the VED! My previous 1.98 litre Renault diesel was taxed at £280 pa even though it did no more annual miles (6K) and emitted no more harmful gasses than my current vehicle.

 

Back in 1980 our Renault 5, 1500cc, reduced compression ratio was probably the most economical car available at the time, better than a Citroen 2CV, but attracted a larger mileage rate (>1,400cc) without additional income tax from employers.

 

There is a reasonable case for charging inefficient vehicles (even boats) for excessive emissions per km/mile but that charge would be best applied by adding yet another penny/litre on the tax on fuel, diesel or petrol. Of course, this is not necessary, motorists and boaters are already paying more than their due.

 

Alan

[blackrose]

Anyone watching the programme on diesel engines on BBC4? I doubt you'll learn anything you didn't already know and if the presenter utters the word "utterly" once more I'm going to have to kick in the tv.

[gazza]

Anyone watching the programme on diesel engines on BBC4? I doubt you'll learn anything you didn't already know and if the presenter utters the word "utterly" once more I'm going to have to kick in the tv.

Ah, its Mark the vet, I quite like him.

Switched over from France v Romania, the Romanians made the French huff and puff 20 mins either side of half time but its all over now so I will give this a go.

[tidal]

Yep
I watched it
94% of all global trade is reliant on diesel power.

 

Can't see diesels going away in any sort of hurry

[peterboat]

Anyone watching the programme on diesel engines on BBC4? I doubt you'll learn anything you didn't already know and if the presenter utters the word "utterly" once more I'm going to have to kick in the tv.

it drove me mad the thing is its easier to make large diesels clean you can have instead of dpf a carbon capture system which virtually eliminates nox, boats could do the same for that matter but the cleaning of them would be expensive. diesel has a place but for cars the future is hybrid and pure electric

[Guest]

it drove me mad the thing is its easier to make large diesels clean you can have instead of dpf a carbon capture system which virtually eliminates nox, boats could do the same for that matter but the cleaning of them would be expensive. diesel has a place but for cars the future is hybrid and pure electric

Unless you need a car to fulfil a particular purpose...

 

A bit like a boat really.

[Alan Saunders]

Yes, you're right, I worded that badly, it should have been next to no CO.

 

But as far as the MOT test is concerned we are looking at smoke rather than the make up of the exhaust gasses

 

The VW issue is related to NOx emissions, the EPA have given VW the criteria they must meet in their rolling road test, VW fudged it by using some swift software footwork.

 

Its nothing to do with an equivalent of our MOT test or smoke for that matter.

VW make some truly excellent vehicles, it is unfortunate that I can only afford second-hand Renault or Citroen and certainly not the overpriced small Fords.

 

No doubt, other manufacturers will soon be found to have applied a similar 'fudge' to their software. We are all aware that the mpg/litre/100km figures are obtained under laboratory conditions and are rarely obtainable on daily use on average roads.

 

Proving that an old VW still meets its original Lab Test is a better test than the poorer standards required by the EU or the USA.

 

Sadly, the nasty American legislation has encouraged the CEO of VW to resign. If the American car industry had ever produced an automobile as good as any from Europe they would not need the resource of their Courts.

 

Alan

[peterboat]

Unless you need a car to fulfil a particular purpose...

 

A bit like a boat really.

i understand where you are coming from martin torqy 4 wheel drive pulling a caravan perfik.

unfortunately the government lost the case with the eu, and then in the supreme court with a green lobby earlier this year, and have to come up with a plan to lower nox,

they have started by getting rid of coal fired power stations. so that leaves them with diesel cars lorries and buses these can be sorted with carbon capture systems which the nox attaches itself to but these are big to give a useful range before cleaning so not suitable for smaller vehicles.

you cant get away from the rise in respiratory decease, and cancer which is an evens chance nowdays up from the 1 in 4 and more recently 1 in 3 chance of developing it of yesteryear.

the link is the rise in diesel car sales. so with this vw scandle lies the perfik opportunity to do something the easy one is ved and even easier is to bring in an emission based mot for diesels that test them at the manufacturers declared emissions then when they fail its not their fault that the manufactures fiddled the figures.

i have been away from work now for over a month and a nasty cough has now gone is it linked to work who knows

 

peter still with no working cap lock or shift key bugger

[peterboat]

VW make some truly excellent vehicles, it is unfortunate that I can only afford second-hand Renault or Citroen and certainly not the overpriced small Fords.

 

No doubt, other manufacturers will soon be found to have applied a similar 'fudge' to their software. We are all aware that the mpg/litre/100km figures are obtained under laboratory conditions and are rarely obtainable on daily use on average roads.

 

Proving that an old VW still meets its original Lab Test is a better test than the poorer standards required by the EU or the USA.

 

Sadly, the nasty American legislation has encouraged the CEO of VW to resign. If the American car industry had ever produced an automobile as good as any from Europe they would not need the resource of their Courts.

 

Alan

i dont know about that i very recently tried the new mustang 30k and it blinds the jag xk and its so much cheaper.

my 2006 shelby 550 hp was so much car for so little money and whilst the build quality was not as good as jag it was one third the price and it had real horsepower and it could handle

the problem was that vw told lies and got caught getting caught was the problem he had to go

Edited September 23, 2015 by peterboat

[Guest]

i understand where you are coming from martin torqy 4 wheel drive pulling a caravan perfik.

unfortunately the government lost the case with the eu, and then in the supreme court with a green lobby earlier this year, and have to come up with a plan to lower nox,

they have started by getting rid of coal fired power stations. so that leaves them with diesel cars lorries and buses these can be sorted with carbon capture systems which the nox attaches itself to but these are big to give a useful range before cleaning so not suitable for smaller vehicles.

you cant get away from the rise in respiratory decease, and cancer which is an evens chance nowdays up from the 1 in 4 and more recently 1 in 3 chance of developing it of yesteryear.

the link is the rise in diesel car sales. so with this vw scandle lies the perfik opportunity to do something the easy one is ved and even easier is to bring in an emission based mot for diesels that test them at the manufacturers declared emissions then when they fail its not their fault that the manufactures fiddled the figures.

i have been away from work now for over a month and a nasty cough has now gone is it linked to work who knows

 

peter still with no working cap lock or shift key bugger

Lovely.

 

Can you provide me with an actual workable link that shows the UK government is planning punitive VED rises for current owners of diesel cars.

 

If you can't all you are doing is sprouting speculation.

 

You fixed cars for a living, I doubt that put you in touch with government advisors,

 

if that's a bit blunt, so be it.

[peterboat]

Lovely.

 

Can you provide me with an actual workable link that shows the UK government is planning punitive VED rises for current owners of diesel cars.

 

If you can't all you are doing is sprouting speculation.

 

You fixed cars for a living, I doubt that put you in touch with government advisors,

 

if that's a bit blunt, so be it.

as ever martin you know better, so you tell us font of all knowledge what the government is going to do about the 2 court cases it has lost and the action that they have been ordered to take. we in the motor trade have been expecting this for years. ford now push their eco boost engines and dont make any diesel engines themselves, Peugeots engine of the year is a petrol hybrid and electric cars being developed at an ever accelerating rate wake up martin the fumes wont be diesel

 

go to autoguide.com its an american website but good reading

Edited September 23, 2015 by peterboat

[Henhouse]

try an old jag tax exempt and a £150 insurance, they have just moved the tax exemption status of classic cars from 25 to 40 years old for this very reason so it takes another mode of transport off the road, sadly old car drivers are being pushed further off the road

 

 

WRONG AGAIN !!!!!!

 

The "Historic Vehicle" zero road fund tax band was introduced during the Conservative government under John Major. ( I think it was when Norman Lamont was Chancellor).

 

When Blair won the 1997 election, Gordon Brown abolished it's rolling 25 year status in his first budget. Thus it has only applied to vehicles built on or before 31st December 1972since then.

 

George Osborne has reintroduced it, but for vehicles of 40 years and older, and it will now continue on a year on year roll on.

 

 

 

As for some of your other supposed facts, I'm with the MJG and Graham camp: TOSH !

[Jambo]

as ever martin you know better, so you tell us font of all knowledge what the government is going to do about the 2 court cases it has lost and the action that they have been ordered to take.

Not very much, sadly:

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/draft-aq-plans

[Guest]

as ever martin you know better, so you tell us font of all knowledge what the government is going to do about the 2 court cases it has lost and the action that they have been ordered to take. we in the motor trade have been expecting this for years. ford now push their eco boost engines and dont make any diesel engines themselves, Peugeots engine of the year is a petrol hybrid and electric cars being developed at an ever accelerating rate wake up martin the fumes wont be diesel

 

go to autoguide.com its an american website but good reading

Clearly nobody is claiming the 'future' is diesel but that is not what was being discussed. What was being discussed was punitive retrospectively applied taxes. which nobody so far has produced any evidence of.

[craftycarper]

Clearly nobody is claiming the 'future' is diesel but that is not what was being discussed. What was being discussed was punitive retrospectively applied taxes. which nobody so far has produced any evidence of.

that tenner is still here with your name on it martin

WRONG AGAIN !!!!!!

 

The "Historic Vehicle" zero road fund tax band was introduced during the Conservative government under John Major. ( I think it was when Norman Lamont was Chancellor).

 

When Blair won the 1997 election, Gordon Brown abolished it's rolling 25 year status in his first budget. Thus it has only applied to vehicles built on or before 31st December 1972since then.

 

George Osborne has reintroduced it, but for vehicles of 40 years and older, and it will now continue on a year on year roll on.

 

 

 

As for some of your other supposed facts, I'm with the MJG and Graham camp: TOSH !

. So it has gone from 25 to 40 years then? I guess your another new diesel owner afraid of what's coming, and as for graham stick with him he's into trains and they have yet to bring out a petrol one toot toot

[Guest]

that tenner is still here with your name on it martin

. So it has gone from 25 to 40 years then? I guess your another new diesel owner afraid of what's coming, and as for graham stick with him he's into trains and they have yet to bring out a petrol one toot toot

What tenner?

 

Have you proposed a bet? I must have missed it.

[craftycarper]

Clearly nobody is claiming the 'future' is diesel but that is not what was being discussed. What was being discussed was punitive retrospectively applied taxes. which nobody so far has produced any evidence of.

a month ago I could of told you vw were fiddling there emissions, if I could,nt provide a link would that have been another lie, sadly Martin you still at your age believe the shite you are fed without question

[gazza]

Clearly nobody is claiming the 'future' is diesel but that is not what was being discussed. What was being discussed was punitive retrospectively applied taxes. which nobody so far has produced any evidence of.

When we were looking for a car to replace our Puma we drew up a list of all the hot hatches we were interested in. MPG and VED rates didn't come into the equation. If they rise by a lot I have no one to look to but myself knowing o chose performance over economy.

 

In my earlier example of the mother in law, she chose low MPG and VED, the salesman advised her on what were her best options - obviously not an ST! IF VED rates rose dramatically she would be right to have a grievance against Ford for mis selling.

Now, imagine that scenario on a 25k+ car that is now worth buttons and costs way more to run than you thought would be the case, multiply it by the number of cars sold to private individuals (voters) and you can begin to get an idea why retrospective changes won't happen.

 

I understand that those of you who don't by a new car will find this hard to grasp. Those that run around in sheds even less so, but that is how it is.

 

Don't forget, fleet sales make up the largest sector in the UK, they are unlikely to get their fingers burned without a massive fight.

[craftycarper]

What tenner?

Have you proposed a bet? I must have missed it.

no I offered you a tenner for your worthless lump of car, be happy but mind you don't crash with those blinkers on, got to go work now

When we were looking for a car to replace our Puma we drew up a list of all the hot hatches we were interested in. MPG and VED rates didn't come into the equation. If they rise by a lot I have no one to look to but myself knowing o chose performance over economy.

In my earlier example of the mother in law, she chose low MPG and VED, the salesman advised her on what were her best options - obviously not an ST! IF VED rates rose dramatically she would be right to have a grievance against Ford for mis selling.

Now, imagine that scenario on a 25k+ car that is now worth buttons and costs way more to run than you thought would be the case, multiply it by the number of cars sold to private individuals (voters) and you can begin to get an idea why retrospective changes won't happen.

I understand that those of you who don't by a new car will find this hard to grasp. Those that run around in sheds even less so, but that is how it is.

Don't forget, fleet sales make up the largest sector in the UK, they are unlikely to get their fingers burned without a massive fight.

how brilliant you are now listening to a smarmy sales man in. A shiny suit, and insulting others for not buying a new car, the thing is we don't care are cars are throw away, not pride and joy, enjoy it while it lasts sheeple I'm off to work

[Guest]

no I offered you a tenner for your worthless lump of car, be happy but mind you don't crash with those blinkers on, got to go work now

Well I'll offer you a bet then. You said road tax on all diesels over 2 litres will be £500 within a year. So I'll bet you a tenner (loser to pay to a charity of choice) that this won't happen.

[Henhouse]

. So it has gone from 25 to 40 years then? I guess your another new diesel owner afraid of what's coming, and as for graham stick with him he's into trains and they have yet to bring out a petrol one toot toot

 

1) No need for the question mark, it's a FACT

 

2) You guess wrong. I have owned, run, and maintained many diesels over the last 30+ years. There is nothing to be afraid of.

 

3) Wrong Again !! Petrol powered trains were used in the First World War on the narrow gauge railways which supplied our troops from the standard gauge railheads.