canal and river trust stating none sighting

[abraxus]

Tracking Units are used in a court of law all the time, they are also used as police as evidence.

 

Insurance company's pay out million's every single day on the account of vehicle theft from the data provided by such devices and CRT are small fry potatoes compared to them who play with the big Ace's.

 

Tracker Units decrease insurance by as much as a third because 1 they work 2 they are court worthy.

That's true, but in the case of a portable tracking unit they only provide evidence of where the unit has been. Unless it's permanently fixed, and tamper proof, they provide no conclusive evidence of where a boat's been.

Edited August 20, 2015 by abraxus

[bux]

As a matter of interest, have you spoken to your son about it? What does he say about it and what does he propose to do?

 

I can imagine you must be sick of it, as it shouldn't be your problem, so why not just pass it on to him and get him to deal with it?

a tracker sounds the solution for him and I will pass the info on to him

[gazza]

As a matter of interest, have you spoken to your son about it? What does he say about it and what does he propose to do?I can imagine you must be sick of it, as it shouldn't be your problem, so why not just pass it on to him and get him to deal with it?

Indeed!

 

No bugger has had to hold my hand since before I finished my GCSE's

 

The old man has had to kick my are a couple of times as a very young man, but from about 19 onwards (when I met Mrs Gazza) I've ploughed my own furrow, had the odd nudge in the right direction but never needed my parents to intervene in any aspect of my life.

[abraxus]

Perhaps he is a responsible sort of dad?

Who may have an equally responsible son, who might well be happy to deal with it if given to him. Who knows, that's why I asked.

[gazza]

Perhaps he is a responsible sort of dad?

I'd be bloody mortified if my old man felt the need to sort my affairs for me.

I am pretty close to him, so that's not the issue

[MtB]

Except that Bux is his mum, not his dad...

[bux]

Except that Bux is his mum, not his dad...

yes thanks mike, no matter how old he is he IS STILL MY SON,

[jenlyn]

I'd be bloody mortified if my old man felt the need to sort my affairs for me.

I am pretty close to him, so that's not the issue

I've often wished my old man had still been around to help me out of a scrape or two, and I wouldn't have felt any shame in doing so.

 

Edited to add me mum, owing to post 81.

Edited August 20, 2015 by jenlyn

[Ricco1]

This is an interesting one.

 

First, email going to the wrong person. I'd just forget about that, is it really a problem?

 

You have to satisfy the board that you are cruising within the guidelines. They haven't spotted you. Only 2 conclusions can be drawn:

 

1/ you've been off CRT waters

 

2/ their logging system isn't for for purpose.

 

It seems that 2/ is most likely. In that case CRT are assuming guilt, possibly because of previous cruising patterns. This is out of order, morally. But worry not:

 

They've given you the opportunity to submit your own cruising records. This is your opportunity. Submit something, factual or otherwise, that will 'satisfy' them. The when you get your next licence try to move every 2 weeks maximum, cover a range of more than 20 miles in your next licence period, you should be OK.

[abraxus]

a tracker sounds the solution for him and I will pass the info on to him

A letter, email or phone call may be a quicker, easier and cheaper solution for him.

[Tuscan]

 

Restricted licenses issued as at 07.08.2015

Month 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Total

3 mth lic 9 18 15 14 2 58

6 mth lic 36 60 86 55 8 245

 

If your son already has a 3 month license he is one of a few boaters who are under CRTs enforcement radar see table above. Whatever the legal rights and wrongs he would be well advised to talk to CRT and discuss a cruising pattern acceptable to both him and CRT.

[GreyLady]

a tracker sounds the solution for him and I will pass the info on to him

 

I hope you get it all sorted out for both you and your son.

 

Their is nothing wrong with a Tracker Device i have just been looking again on Amazon, their are quite a few of them.

 

They are also very handy if yout boat gets stolen because they give you a location of the boat.

 

you can pm if you like anytime.

 

all the best.

[gazza]

I've often wished my old man had still been around to help me out of a scrape or two, and I wouldn't have felt any shame in doing so.

 

Edited to add me mum, owing to post 81.

No shame, I count my blessings every day that the old bugger is still here, he had an aortic artery bypass in 2007 I'm glad he's here to see his granddaughter grow up.

Still wouldn't want him getting involved in stuff like this

[mark99]

I met a boater a couple of months ago who told me he was on a 3 month licence due to enforcement and was hurrying onto the Thames to disappear for a while off the CaRT radar.

[GreyLady]

That's true, but in the case of a portable tracking unit they only provide evidence of where the unit has been. Unless it's permanently fixed, and tamper proof, they provide no conclusive evidence of where a boat's been.

 

They seem to be taken quite seriously in motor vehicle's and ive spoken to a lot of insurance inspector's in my time.

 

They can be monitored also for a minimal subscription to a legally recognised agency.

 

I say £50 better with than without and leave it up to the court's, i guess their will be egg on someone's face.

[gazza]

yes thanks mike, no matter how old he is he IS STILL MY SON,

My mother and I are not close, this is something she has said in the past(your bold) sadly it doesn't help with me.

 

Have you considered letting him sort his own affairs out?

[MtB]

I met a boater a couple of months ago who told me he was on a 3 month licence due to enforcement and was hurrying onto the Thames to disappear for a while off the CaRT radar.

 

 

Interesting way of getting around the three month licence thing when under enforcement might be to apply for a Gold License. 'Disappearing onto the Thames' is then a fully legitimate boating pattern AND a Gold License is only available in 12 month format.

[mark99]

To the OP. Just get your son to explain to CaRT his movements. You don't need to invest in technology. A conversation is sufficient.

[GreyLady]

To the OP. Just get your son to explain to CaRT his movements. You don't need to invest in technology. A conversation is sufficient.

 

I agree totally mark99, may thats all that is needed and i hope so for his mum the op.

[mark99]

 

 

Interesting way of getting around the three month licence thing when under enforcement might be to apply for a Gold License. 'Disappearing onto the Thames' is then a fully legitimate boating pattern AND a Gold License is only available in 12 month format.

Don't know the ins and outs but said boater was spooked and distressed. Obviously not aware that non sighting is not a good thing! And nor was I to be honest. Edited August 20, 2015 by mark99

[Paul C]

 

They seem to be taken quite seriously in motor vehicle's and ive spoken to a lot of insurance inspector's in my time.

 

They can be monitored also for a minimal subscription to a legally recognised agency.

 

I say £50 better with than without and leave it up to the court's, i guess their will be egg on someone's face.

 

Might I suggest the reason they're okay in cars, is that the speeds and typical places visited strongly relate to a car's movement, and their use isn't so much to prove movement occurs, but data such as speeds in a particular location, acceleration, harsh braking etc. On an application to prove a boat's movement, the same speed and places can be easily replicated by a walk or cycle ride, so they can't prove the boat's movement, only the tracker's movement.

 

Having said that, CRT's records are so rubbish that they'd probably be taken as better (or, less worse).

[MtB]

 

Might I suggest the reason they're okay in cars, is that the speeds and typical places visited strongly relate to a car's movement, and their use isn't so much to prove movement occurs, but data such as speeds in a particular location, acceleration, harsh braking etc. On an application to prove a boat's movement, the same speed and places can be easily replicated by a walk or cycle ride, so they can't prove the boat's movement, only the tracker's movement.

 

 

True, but they'd need to be actually carried out in real time, so it would require a LOT of commitment to create a false cruise log tha stands up to even mild scrutiny. Might just as well do the cruise for real as it would take no longer.

[GreyLady]

 

Might I suggest the reason they're okay in cars, is that the speeds and typical places visited strongly relate to a car's movement, and their use isn't so much to prove movement occurs, but data such as speeds in a particular location, acceleration, harsh braking etc. On an application to prove a boat's movement, the same speed and places can be easily replicated by a walk or cycle ride, so they can't prove the boat's movement, only the tracker's movement.

 

Having said that, CRT's records are so rubbish that they'd probably be taken as better (or, less worse).

 

But they record hourly data Paul listing longitude and latitude, i cant see someone on a push bike cycling all night every hour.

 

You can download a months SD card data onto a hard drive and keep if for them crt fun letters if they arrived.

Edited August 20, 2015 by grumpy146

[mark99]

I can't see that a location tracker that cannot be tied permanently and sealed to a boat can be taken seriously. First question from lawyer. How can you prove the boat and tracking device are tied.

 

Second question:

 

Mr CaRT, does this tracking info satisfy the board?

Edited August 20, 2015 by mark99

[MtB]

I can't see that a location tracker that cannot be tied permanently and sealed to a boat can be taken seriously. First question from lawyer. How can you prove the boat and tracking device are tied.

 

 

The extreme difficulty in creating a false log means a court is very likely to accept the data as genuine "On the balance of probabilities", especially if backed up by the boater telling the court under oath the data is genuine.