I am beginning to be concerned

[DeanS]

Yes

 

 

Isn't the index number on the side of the boat?

[John V]

Maybe the glare of the paintwork was too much for his eyes ?

[pearley]

We were logged halfway down the Rothersthorpe flight in April, on our way down to spend the summer on the Fens. If we get logged again on the way back up in September, will they assume we've been in the same place for 5 months?

[nb Innisfree]

We were logged halfway down the Rothersthorpe flight in April, on our way down to spend the summer on the Fens. If we get logged again on the way back up in September, will they assume we've been in the same place for 5 months?

The answer lies buried somewhere in this thread.

[Ricco1]

and the answer from CRT..

 

 

 

Hi Dean

 

We accept your explanation of the situation and I would like to reiterate that our reminders are sent as a customer service message, they are not an enforcement action.

I can confirm that I have flagged this reminder as withdrawn and I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Also we are happy to approve the 3 day overstay that you have requested.

Kind regards

 

Being told you're breaking the rules is customer service rather than enforcement? Hmmm might take me a while to get my head round that.

[magpie patrick]

 

Being told you're breaking the rules is customer service rather than enforcement? Hmmm might take me a while to get my head round that.

 

It isn't even that is it, it's telling you that, on the basis of insufficient evidence, they don't know that you are not breaking the rules.

[GreyLady]

I will be fitting a Vehicle Tracker Unit to my Narrowboat, I dont see this as tagging myself I see it as a piece of reasurance.

 

1. if my boat is stolen I can phone the tracker unit up and direct the police to its whereabout's.

2. I could produce the Boats longitude and latitude History to the Crt to prove I have not overstayed.

 

It seems the Crt is behaving rather like a bully within the 'Big Brother House'

 

I did think about taking photo's to prove the location of my boat but that would take me away from just 'enjoying my boat'

 

Having a £50 Vehicle Tracker would be hassle free, plus their is also the option to view the boats interior on a mobile phone with a Camera hidden on the Boat.

 

(It would be nice knowing its all safe while away from the boat)

 

Job sorted.

Edited August 16, 2015 by grumpy146

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Being told you're breaking the rules is customer service rather than enforcement? Hmmm might take me a while to get my head round that.

 

Like any other bully, C&RT will back down as soon as they realize that they've run into some opposition.

After some wavering crept into the thread following the initial outcry about the letter in the OP, a number of members of this Forum began to make it clear to C&RT that from now on there is going to be powerful and effective opposition to their behaviour, and that the days of them having a free hand to bully and intimidate are over.

It would need the kind of salesman who could sell sand to the Arabs to convince all but the most myopic and gullible that the first letter sent to Dean was a "Customer Service" document. Make no mistake, they saw what was coming at them and they backed down.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Martin Megson]

I will be fitting a Vehicle Tracker Unit to my Narrowboat, I dont see this as tagging myself I see it as a piece of reasurance.

 

1. if my boat is stolen I can phone the tracker unit up and direct the police to its whereabout's.

2. I could produce the Boats longitude and latitude History to the Crt to prove I have not overstayed.

 

It seems the Crt is behaving rather like a bully within the 'Big Brother House'

 

I did think about taking photo's to prove the location of my boat but that would take me away from just 'enjoying my boat'

 

Having a £50 Vehicle Tracker would be hassle free, plus their is also the option to view the boats interior on a mobile phone with a Camera hidden on the Boat.

 

(It would be nice knowing its all safe while away from the boat)

 

Job sorted.

 

I'm a CC'er and do take a photo of my mooring each time I stop. I have boat management app on my phone which has a logbook function and I use it to keep track of my travels for my own benefit. However, in the event CRT claim I have overstayed I can produce a pdf report of my travels. Of course, before providing them evidence of my innocence I would ask to see their evidence of my alleged overstaying.

[GreyLady]

I'm a CC'er and do take a photo of my mooring each time I stop. I have boat management app on my phone which has a logbook function and I use it to keep track of my travels for my own benefit. However, in the event CRT claim I have overstayed I can produce a pdf report of my travels. Of course, before providing them evidence of my innocence I would ask to see their evidence of my alleged overstaying.

 

From reading this thread it seems they are requesting boaters to proove their innocence without any given justifyable proof we should proove our places of mooring.

 

I cant fault you for throwing the ball back in their court, who knows maybe they are shooting blanks with these types of letters.(sometimes)》Maybe?

 

good thinking.

Edited August 16, 2015 by grumpy146

[cotswoldsman]

From reading this thread it seems they are requesting boaters to proove their innocence without any given justifyable proof we should proove our places of mooring.

 

I cant fault you for throwing the ball back in their court, who knows maybe they are shooting blanks with these types of letters.(sometimes)》Maybe?

 

good thinking.

I would leave proving my innocence until I am taken to court for not having a licence and then let the Judge decide

[GreyLady]

I would leave proving my innocence until I am taken to court for not having a licence and then let the Judge decide

If the Crt end up taking everyone to court it would not be long before they either run out of money or hang their jackets up with the Canal System.

 

I would rather recieve a letter from them stating why I had recieved a letter from them with a reason rather than the type of empty reasoning letter Dean recieved.

 

Even the Police give someone a reason when asking a 'suspect' where they were on such and such a day.

 

I would much rather deal with this type of issue swiftly and stay out of court, life is far too short but I do think the Crt need to revise their protocol it seems like harrasement to me.

 

Maybe the Canal Micky takers have given everyone a bad name until proven innocent.

Edited August 16, 2015 by grumpy146

[Alan de Enfield]

I would leave proving my innocence until I am taken to court for not having a licence and then let the Judge decide

 

But - you will be taken to court for not having a licence, not for contravening the T&Cs or for whatever reason they revoke your licence.

 

Once in court you can only accpt that you do not have a licence, (as it will be fact), you cannot start to discuss why you don't have one, or the reasons that it was revoked - that is not what you are there for.

[Tony Dunkley]

If the Crt end up taking everyone to court it would not be long before they either run out of money or hang their jackets up with the Canal System.

 

I would rather recieve a letter from them stating why I had recieved a letter from them with a reason rather than the type of empty reasoning letter Dean recieved.

 

Even the Police give someone a reason when asking a 'suspect' where they were on such and such a day.

 

I would much rather deal with this type of issue swiftly and stay out of court, life is far too short but I do think the Crt need to revise their protocol it seems like harrasement to me.

Maybe the Canal Micky takers have given everyone a bad name until proven innocent.

 

You're right, it is harassment, and if the recipients of it demonstrate to C&RT that it works by responding to threats in a conciliatory and defensive manner, then it will continue.

DeanS may be happy for now with the outcome of his 'Neville Chamberlain' moment, but to react as he has to being threatened with 'enforcement action' as a consequence of using his boat as he is entitled to do will only encourage C&RT to persist with more attempts to intimidate others who are doing the same.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Arthur Marshall]

It's simply impossible for CRT to log the position of every boat, every day, & neither us nor them are daft enough to think that they can. So a certain amount of self-policing is the only way round it - ie, if CRT think there might be a problem, they ask you about it. This seems logical enough and so does their apparent response. It's no different from the boatowner notifying them when THEY have a problem (such as illness or breakdown), which again historically has been treated sensibly. Logically again, if the same boat keeps getting noticed in the same place without any other communication (probably especially if it doesn't appear to have an engine in it) they may start to concentrate more attention on it.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Arthur Marshall

[cotswoldsman]

 

But - you will be taken to court for not having a licence, not for contravening the T&Cs or for whatever reason they revoke your licence.

 

Once in court you can only accpt that you do not have a licence, (as it will be fact), you cannot start to discuss why you don't have one, or the reasons that it was revoked - that is not what you are there for.

Wrong. I would show that the taking away of my licence was not legal. Maybe you need to look at some of the past court actions. CRT can not remove a boat for reasons of enforcement they have to refuse a licence and then go to court for no licence Edited August 16, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[Heffalump]

It's simply impossible for CRT to log the position of every boat, every day...

 

Unless a very small part of the large license fee provided a small GPS Tracker, capable of sending an sms with location at predetermined intervals.

[Alan de Enfield]

Wrong. I would show that the taking away of my licence was not legal. Maybe you need to look at some of the past court actions. CRT can not remove a boat for reasons of enforcement they have to refuse a licence and then go to court for no licence

 

That's exactly what I thought I said in this sentence "But - you will be taken to court for not having a licence, not for contravening the T&Cs or for whatever reason they revoke your licence". It was obviously open to misinterpretation for which I apologise. Hopefully it is now a bit clearer.

 

In order to have the circumstances of the licence removal reviewed, I think you will need to take legal action against C&RT, you cannot discuss your complaint about the legality of them removing the licence in a court case they have taken against you for having no licence.

 

Take a look at some of the previous court actions.

[cotswoldsman]

 

That's exactly what I thought I said in this sentence "But - you will be taken to court for not having a licence, not for contravening the T&Cs or for whatever reason they revoke your licence". It was obviously open to misinterpretation for which I apologise. Hopefully it is now a bit clearer.

 

In order to have the circumstances of the licence removal reviewed, I think you will need to take legal action against C&RT, you cannot discuss your complaint about the legality of them removing the licence in a court case they have taken against you for having no licence.

 

Take a look at some of the previous court actions.

Ok we are both confusing each other. As soon as my licence is refused I would start legal action just maybe my wording did not make that clear enough.

[GreyLady]

Unless a very small part of the large license fee provided a small GPS Tracker, capable of sending an sms with location at predetermined intervals.

I would go for that as I would have nothing to hide, but I bet some may question their human rights. :->

Edited August 16, 2015 by grumpy146

[Alan de Enfield]

Ok we are both confusing each other. As soon as my licence is refused I would start legal action just maybe my wording did not make that clear enough.

 

OK - I was confused as well.

All is now clear - you will commence legal action against C&RT, not wait for them to take legal action against you.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

But - you will be taken to court for not having a licence, not for contravening the T&Cs or for whatever reason they revoke your licence.

 

Once in court you can only accpt that you do not have a licence, (as it will be fact), you cannot start to discuss why you don't have one, or the reasons that it was revoked - that is not what you are there for.

 

No, Alan, that is precisely what you are there for.

The circumstances you describe can only come about if the intended victim allows C&RT and Shoosmiths to get away with the attempts they invariably make to manipulate and abuse Court procedures, and to mislead the Court, at the Declaration and Injunction hearing. If the matter is handled correctly by the Defendant ( the HM'er boater) at that stage, then C&RT have no option but to withdraw there and then, or proceed with an action which can be wrecked by the Defendant, at a time of his own choosing, to the extent that it becomes, in Shoosmith's words 'worthless and academic' and they have to Discontinue simply because they cannot possibly win.

The implications of their proceeding in such circumstances were briefly touched on earlier in this thread, and were they to do so, in at least two separate actions when aware that their claim had become totally without merit, in addition to being aware at the time of filing that it was certain to become so, then they would be well on the way to laying themselves open to being held to be vexatious litigants.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Southern Star]

Yes

 

Seems rather bizarre thing for the data logger to have done then. Had it happened to me, I imagine I would have shouted back "I'm not sure, I'll have to stop and look at that plate in that window there!" while pointing animatedly at the window in which he/she should quite clearly be able to see the plate for him/herself.

[BD3Bill]

Seems rather bizarre thing for the data logger to have done then. Had it happened to me, I imagine I would have shouted back "I'm not sure, I'll have to stop and look at that plate in that window there!" while pointing animatedly at the window in which he/she should quite clearly be able to see the plate for him/herself.

 

Short sighted data loggers, that's all we need FFS !

[Tony Dunkley]

Ok we are both confusing each other. As soon as my licence is refused I would start legal action just maybe my wording did not make that clear enough.

 

The cost free alternative to commencing legal action for someone who lives aboard and has, or can quickly obtain, a mooring is to file a short written Defence to the Declaration/Injunction Application. I filed mine just before the Court Office closed on the last filing day and C&RT/Shoosmiths were unaware of it's existence until the Judge handed it to them at the Hearing, . . . . their reaction was a joy to watch.

In the Defence there need only to be a brief statement as to why you dispute the legality of the Licence refusal, and a challenge to the inappropriate use of the Part 8 procedure of the CPR's.

You can do this yourself, without recourse to lawyers. Should anyone wish to pursue this course of action, a copy of my short written Defence is freely available as a template for them to use.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Tony Dunkley