Viewing this week for my 1st boat - your thoughts much appreciated

[Lily Rose]

Newbie here so please be gentle!

 

Hopefully I will become a forum regular before long.

 

After a recent boat holiday (not my first) on the Shroppie, and recent early-ish retirement, I have decided to press ahead with a long-held desire to own a boat while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. I'm 59 and it feels like now or never.

 

I'm hoping forum members would please be kind enough to give their views on two boats I'm viewing on Thursday 16 July.

 

I'm looking for something 35' to 45' for 1 or 2 week holiday use 2 or 3 times a year plus more frequent weekend use and will moor it in a marina in the Napton Junction area to give multiple cruising options and a driving time from home near Oxford of only an hour or so.

 

It will be used mainly by my wife and I but with occasional visits from family members so I'm looking for a 4 berth.

 

The first is Lily Rose, 45', £30k, moored in Wigrams Turn marina.

 

http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/LilyRoseBrochureMainPage.pdf

 

I've looked at lots of boats online but i keep coming back to this one because it ticks lots of boxes as well as having a name with close family connections. I know the latter is not a reason to buy but it makes me feel like this is possibly meant to be "the one".

 

Slight concerns are...

- the bottom plate is only 8mm rather than 10

- no C/H, only solid fuel. Perhaps not a problem as it will be mainly used during better weather but some short-break spring or autumn use during chillier times is also likely.

- I know nothing about how good the shell builder and the engine are.

There was a survey in 2014, which I will ask to see, but I would get a new one if I make an offer.

 

 

The 2nd is a new build of an Aintree Beetle, a lot shorter but very clever use of space. And lower running costs due to size.

 

http://www.aintreeboats.co.uk/aintree-beetle.html

 

The base model is 25' £30k but also available as 30, 35 and 40 with roughly £6k price increases for each 5' increment. I would likely go for 30 or 35 so therefore £36k or £42k. More expensive than Lily Rose but new rather than 2nd hand, albeit smaller.

I will be viewing 25' and 30' variants in Crick Marina.

 

Main concerns are...

- how good are Aintree Boats? They seem to offer good VFM. Or are they cheap for a reason?

- the fuel and water tanks are very small, presumably to save space. Is this likely to be a big problem?

- the space for gas bottles is only big enough for small bottles, under 4kg each. This will make gas dearer but with diesel C/H perhaps this does not matter too much?

 

Many thanks in advance for the benefit of your wisdom.

[Bod]

My first question on Lily Rose, would be "why was it surveyed in 2014?"

Failed sale?

Questionable condition ?

Should you decide to go further with this boat , you will be getting your own survey done, arranged and paid for by yourself.

For what it's worth, I would still have an independent survey done on a new boat, as part of the acceptance.

 

Bod

[Lily Rose]

Thanks Bod, that did cross my mind but I must remember to ask when I view.

 

I believe some brokers encourage sellers to get a survey before selling but this one was in 2014 so I wondered if the seller has only had the boat a year, in which case why sell so soon?

 

I would definitely be getting my own independent survey!

Edited July 14, 2015 by MrBeethoven

[alan_fincher]

For the first boat, an 8mm bottom plate on a 2000 build sounds highly unusual, unless it is one of the types built to a tight budget, which it doesn't look to be. By then on a "standard" build a 10mm bottom was an almost universal minimum. I wonder if the boat is really "as descried"?

 

The 50 foot boat we recently sold had no central heating - just a solid fuel stove, and was regularly used at colder times throughput the year, including January surrounded by ice. It was perfectly warm enough, and provided insulation is OK, you don't really need central heating in boats as short as you are considering.

[Boat&Bikes]

Aintree boats are pretty good going on what a couple of owners have told me. As well built as many other boats costing half as much again. As a holiday/weekend user the small gas bottles will be adequate. Water is easily found on the canal system so wont be a worry either.

 

Ian.

[alan_fincher]

OK, some further comment on the Aintree boat....

 

That also only has 8mm bottom - not a problem, but only encountered now on the cheaper builds.

 

Short hull seems to imply short swims - not sure it will be a pleasure to take boating.

 

3.9Kg gas cylinders are a real pain - you pay nearly as much for 4Kg of gas as you might pay for 13Kg.

I think a solid fuel stove is a far better option in a small cruising boat than diesel fired heating, which will cost more to run, and potentially be less reliable.

 

A 4 square foot skin tank seems extremely stingy, even given the small 16HP engine size - I wouldn't want to guess what might happen pushing hard against a strong flow on rivers.

 

My advice is find a decent second hand boat that suits - it will be a far nicer prospect to actually go boating in, and if after a few years you get the bug, and want to upgrade, you will get a far higher proportion of your money back if you sell it on, IMO.

[MtB]

 

The 50 foot boat we recently sold had no central heating - just a solid fuel stove, and was regularly used at colder times throughput the year, including January surrounded by ice. It was perfectly warm enough, and provided insulation is OK, you don't really need central heating in boats as short as you are considering.

 

 

Seconded. I've never had central heating on any of the boats I've owned. Solid fuel stoves are fine.

 

I could do with a stove in the back cabin of my 68ft NB though, in addition to the one in the front main cabin.

 

A few of us have successfully heated the back of a boat using a duct to blow warm air drawn from above the solid fuel stove to the stern.

[Athy]

For the first boat, an 8mm bottom plate on a 2000 build sounds highly unusual,

Our last boat, built in 2001 by a volume shell builder, must have been highly unusual then: she had 8/6/4 steelwork, which we were told was standard for boats up to a certain length. Ours was 40 ft.

Lily Mae looks like a welcoming boat. From the photos, the interior looks to be in good condition, she has a quite high spec (side hatches, microwave, bath) and although there is no central heating, the stove is sensibly placed in the centre of the boat.

 

From what I was told by a broker at the time, Cauldon Boats specialised in buying in unwanted shells - cancelled orders for example - and fitting them out. So the shell is of uncertain parentage, but Cauldon's work should be OK. The shell does lack tumblehome (i.e. the sides don't have any slope) so bumping into low bridge arches is a possibility. The engine is of a type widely used on the waterways.

 

And finally: if you want to know why she had a survey last year, ask.

[matty40s]

I have sent you a PM

[Athy]

I have sent you a PM

It has not arrived. Did you mean me, or the OP? I wonder if, as he has made only 2 posts, he can receive them.

[matty40s]

Well he'd better roll over and make a third one then :-)

[Guest]

It has not arrived. Did you mean me, or the OP? I wonder if, as he has made only 2 posts, he can receive them.

2 posts are now sufficient to both send an receive private messages. I suspect Matty means the OP.

[Athy]

Well he'd better roll over and make a third one then :-)

I'd tell Tchaikovsky the news, but I can't spell him.

[bottle]

Try telling Beethoven that would be easier.

[matty40s]

Try telling Beethoven that would be easier.

Hope I didn't wake you up last night!

[bottle]

Nope, never felt the boat move either but you should have knocked.

[Lily Rose]

Hi all, just got back home for my first chance to reply in a while. Thanks for the responses so far, any more would be gratefully received.

 

I'm now reassured about the lack of C/H on Lily Rose. My concerns are now/still...

- bottom thickness

- unknown parentage/age of hull (i read somewhere that the shell is what really matters as eveything else can be changed).

- reason for the recent survey ( I will ask ).

Also, Athy's comment about tumblehome (A new word I've learnt today!). Is that just a reason to be extra careful with narrow bridges or a real risk of damage or getting stuck?

 

Regarding Aintree Beetles, I spoke to Andy at Aintree yesterday and he said the website still shows old spec for the steel, it's now 10/6/5/4.

 

I think my main concerns are cruising range for fuel and having to frequently top up the water. The gas bottle issue is more of a slight irritation really as it will increase gas costs but as I won't be living aboard or doing extended trips (much as I'd like to I've been told by MrsBeethoven that it's not going to happen, 2 weeks is to be the max!) that is probably not a show-stopper.

 

Thanks again, please keep your thoughts coming, it's very helpful.

[Lily Rose]

Matty, i've replied to your PM, as far as I can tell it went to you ok.

[Athy]

Hi all, just got back home for my first chance to reply in a while. Thanks for the responses so far, any more would be gratefully received.

 

I'm now reassured about the lack of C/H on Lily Rose. My concerns are now/still...

- bottom thickness

- unknown parentage/age of hull (i read somewhere that the shell is what really matters as eveything else can be changed).

- reason for the recent survey ( I will ask ).

Also, Athy's comment about tumblehome (A new word I've learnt today!). Is that just a reason to be extra careful with narrow bridges or a real risk of damage or getting stuck?

 

Regarding Aintree Beetles, I spoke to Andy at Aintree yesterday and he said the website still shows old spec for the steel, it's now 10/6/5/4.

 

I think my main concerns are cruising range for fuel and having to frequently top up the water. The gas bottle issue is more of a slight irritation really as it will increase gas costs but as I won't be living aboard or doing extended trips (much as I'd like to I've been told by MrsBeethoven that it's not going to happen, 2 weeks is to be the max!) that is probably not a show-stopper.

 

Thanks again, please keep your thoughts coming, it's very helpful.

Yes, "tumblehome" is indeed a pleasing word. You are unlikely to get stuck, but slightly more likely to clout or scrape a bridge arch. This would typically remove a bit of paint but do no structural damage to the boat.

 

DON'T worry about the baseplate thickness. There are plenty of older boats built with 5 or 6 mm bottoms still afloat. I have just remembered that our first narrowboat, in which we clouted plenty of obstructions both great and small, had only a 6mm bottom. A survey (which you are strongly encouraged to have before purchase) will reveal whether that 8mm is still 8mm or nearly. if it is, just don't worry. If it has worn down to 4 or 5 in places, start worrying.

 

Yes, try and find out who built the shell. But if the survey shows that the thickness is still OK, and if your test drive shows that the boat steers satisfactorily, I'm not sure that there's much that can be wrong with it.

[Southern Star]

 

 

DON'T worry about the baseplate thickness. There are plenty of older boats built with 5 or 6 mm bottoms still afloat. I have just remembered that our first narrowboat, in which we clouted plenty of obstructions both great and small, had only a 6mm bottom. A survey (which you are strongly encouraged to have before purchase) will reveal whether that 8mm is still 8mm or nearly. if it is, just don't worry. If it has worn down to 4 or 5 in places, start worrying.

 

 

Mine was built in 1987 with an 8mm baseplate, the survey last year showed a minimum thickness of 7.5mm so it will outlast me. Agree that small gas bottles are a pain, they are one of the few faults I could find with my boat although not the end of the world.

[Machpoint005]

My preference would be for Lily Rose over a Beetle every time. Our boat is 48ft, which is plenty long enough for our usage pattern (similar to what you anticipate yourself) but I wouldn't want it any shorter. I'd also prefer a cruiser stern or 'semi trad' on what is primarily a holiday boat, but that is very much a matter of personal preference. Handling depends mainly on the shape of the bow and sterm swim - our current boat is far easier to handle than our previous 58ft share boat.

 

My advice, for what it's worth, is to look at LilyRose very carefully, but don't even think about buying it until you've seen half a dozen others in the flesh.

[Lily Rose]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

I've already gone and done it... I put a deposit on Lily Rose yesterday.

 

I offered the full asking price, subject to survey, as it had already been reduced by £5k when we saw it, but to include everything on board so I haven't got to go out and buy new stuff (no boat to transfer stuff from and not moving out of our house).

 

I've seen the 2014 survey (done when current owner bought the boat but now selling due to job loss) but I'm also trying to sort my own survey for additional peace of mind.

 

The external photos of the boat were deceptive in regard to tumblehome. It looked fine to me and the previous survey also confirmed this.

 

We looked at half a dozen boats in the morning in order to have something to compare Lily Rose to. One seemed pretty reasonable but no wow factor, one was ok but too small, the others looked well rough despite two of them being a bit dearer. However, these were all at Whilton Marina which I now realise is possibly not the best place to look for benchmarks but the process is easier there.

 

When we went to see Lily Rose it was a completely different kettle of fish. As soon as we saw it, inside and out, it just felt right. Even my wife, who was a lot less keen on buying a boat than me, said "I love this boat" within minutes of being on board.

 

Just gotta hope the survey doesn't throw up any serious issues.

[Nev]

....It's a good and slightly scary feeling. Three boats in and I can remember the first day of ownership of all three for all good reasons. Enjoy !

[Dharl]

Good luck with the purchase, hope all goes smoothly and you and your wife fully enjoy the boating bug!!

[Athy]

Splendid news! Fingers, legs and eyes crossed for a successful survey report.

 

Pleased to hear that a) she has some tumblehome and b ) you remembered the word!