Thar's a hole in me batareee!

[Rendelf]

 

Wow! So.... the list of jobs as long as all of the amputated and lined up arms of all the lovely people I've ever kissed (but not dismembered) continues to grow. It's four weeks since we bought our boat!

 

Today's job was to inspect and top-up the batteries. We have, or, had, four Trojan 150AH batteries, arranged in 12V parallel. I knew that the wiring was shoddy, as it is everywhere on the boat, but wasn't quite expecting this!

 

This battery was at the accessible end of the bank... as such, it had both positive and negative cables from the solar controller attached to it. There was no electrolyte present when I checked two days ago. The battery drank a good 1.5 litres, and did not smell good.

 

I have looked at the mess of cables that the bank was before, and even noticed that there was corrosion present on this one, though I did not notice the hole. It's possible that the hole appeared in the day since I added water, or that I couldn't see it without pulling it out of the box (fairly hard to get to).

 

 

The other three batteries in the bank needed topping up, but were not dry. I've now cleaned all the contacts, removed lots of needless cable, and hooked the solar charge cables up to separate ends of the bank. Needless to say, the one with the hole in has been removed from service.

 

Any ideas why this happened? Was it the charging cables attached to + and - of the same battery? Possible leak from a cap?..... it certainly looks like acid....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

Looks like heat damage to me, from a red hot cable resting on the battery just there. Probably very old and of no consequence provided you not have a collision and turn the boat (or just the battery) upside down.

 

I'm intrigued by your comment about it drinking 1.5 litres of electrolyte. Do you mean you were able to add 1.5 litres of distilled water, or were you actually topping up with new electrolyte?

 

MtB

[Rickent]

It definitely looks like its been melted externally rather than from within. That would be some seriously hot cable to do damage like that.

[John V]

or a soldering iron carelessly placed ?

[Phil Ambrose]

It definitely looks like its been melted externally rather than from within. That would be some seriously hot cable to do damage like that.

I had exactly the same thought, historic damage?

Phil

[MtB]

or a soldering iron carelessly placed ?

 

 

Ooh that's a good point.

 

And it's been ages since we rehearsed why soldering is a BAD IDEA on a boat.

 

Can anyone remember why this is? Coz I can't!

 

 

MtB

[by'eck]

 

 

Ooh that's a good point.

 

And it's been ages since we rehearsed why soldering is a BAD IDEA on a boat.

 

Can anyone remember why this is? Coz I can't!

 

 

MtB

 

When you tin multi-strand cable, it leaves a stress point where the solid tinned part meets the flexible part. Unsupported, vibration could then fracture the cable. Also when such a cable is used in a screw down terminal, the solder can deform after tightening down leading to a loose connection.

[MtB]

That sounds like two theoretical risks that don't actually happen in real life.

 

Screw-down terminals come loose even when no solder is present. Equally I'd say there is a stress point where a strand ceases to be gripped by the screw just as when it leaves the tinned part when solder is used.

 

Your turn!

[Tony Brooks]

My understanding is that when the less competent solder terminals to cable they usually run solder a fair way down the conductor but capillary action. This forms a solid conductor outside the terminal so it is subject to vibration damage just like any other solid core cable. However if you are quick (great big hot iron), hold the terminal and wire in the correct manner and take care with how much solder you apply it is possible to only solder the conductors that sit in the conductor crimp part of the terminal leaving the insulator crimp to clamp the not soldered multi-strands.

[John V]

I have heard all the arguments over the years. Crimping is probably the best but even then there are crimpers and crimpers

. Sweating it in is probably better than bashing the crimp with a hammer or one of the worst designs of crimper. and some screw terminals are better at cutting strands than some so called wire cutters.

[by'eck]

That sounds like two theoretical risks that don't actually happen in real life.

 

Screw-down terminals come loose even when no solder is present. Equally I'd say there is a stress point where a strand ceases to be gripped by the screw just as when it leaves the tinned part when solder is used.

 

Your turn!

 

Well FWIW I would have no quarms about using soldered connections to multi-strand cable providing they were adequately supported. The clamp down terminal issue is relevant though - supporting ferrules should be used with multi-strand instead. To suggest either soldering issue is only a theoretical risk in an environment where vibration is present is nonsense.

[ditchcrawler]

 

When you tin multi-strand cable, it leaves a stress point where the solid tinned part meets the flexible part. Unsupported, vibration could then fracture the cable. Also when such a cable is used in a screw down terminal, the solder can deform after tightening down leading to a loose connection.

All car wiring use to have the bullets soldered on. (when I were a boy)

[MtB]

All car wiring use to have the bullets soldered on. (when I were a boy)

 

And I think the change to crimps happened because they are so much cheaper to attach to the wires...

[Tony Brooks]

All car wiring use to have the bullets soldered on. (when I were a boy)

 

Yes but the way one was supposed to solder them given a bit of competence ensured the solder wicked up the conductors stayed within the body of the bullet.

 

And people tended to be more practical or they left well alone - plus proper apprenticeships to gain skills..

Edited May 20, 2015 by Tony Brooks

[Guest]

 

Yes but the way one was supposed to solder them given a bit of competence ensured the solder wicked up the conductors stayed within the body of the bullet.

 

And people tended to be more practical or they left well alone - plus proper apprenticeships to gain skills..

Yes. I have soldered many large cables to lugs in my electrical days, often in far more demanding situations than any canal boat! Soldering has been given bad press, brought about by sloppy soldering.

That said, I much prefer PROPERLY crimped connections to even properly soldered ones. Neater. quicker, safer to apply and more reliable in the hands of an amateur. It is dead easy to make a crimper for a fiver or so, that works well. (I have a proper crimper, but made one for the hell of it.)

[peterboat]

When doing gas conversions we always solder the wires never had any broken ones yet and cars do vibrate

 

Peter

[Guest]

When doing gas conversions we always solder the wires never had any broken ones yet and cars do vibrate

 

Peter

That,ll be because you know how to solder. It was all we had at one time, and when done properly is OK. When crimps first became more popular a lot of the old school electricians didn't trust them

[by'eck]

When doing gas conversions we always solder the wires never had any broken ones yet and cars do vibrate

 

Peter

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76321&hl=

[Rendelf]

Looks like heat damage to me, from a red hot cable resting on the battery just there. Probably very old and of no consequence provided you not have a collision and turn the boat (or just the battery) upside down.

 

I'm intrigued by your comment about it drinking 1.5 litres of electrolyte. Do you mean you were able to add 1.5 litres of distilled water, or were you actually topping up with new electrolyte?

 

MtB

 

Iiiinteresting..... you say it's of no consequence..... does that mean that I could continue to use the battery (which isn't that old) without it exploding all over my cotton dress?

 

 

You are correct about the 'electrolyte', clearly I'm just pretending that I know what I'm doing. T'was indeed distilled water that the battery suppethed most deeply. It was also two litres, and not 1.5.

or a soldering iron carelessly placed ?

 

Based on the way the previous owners have conducted (ha!!) their electrical work, I think it's safe to say that they do not solder. They are more the 'twist and sellotape' variety.