Poor Quality New Boats

[Gary Peacock]

So nobody on the forum would be willing to intentionally buy a boat at a saving by skipping some of the legal requirements it seems.

 

So moving on what type of things should you be looking for and asking when visiting builders?

 

Should you just arrive unannounced or make an appointment?

 

There are builders and fitters do you know the difference and does it make a difference?

 

If you have a new boat what lessons did you learn in your visits?

[RichardH]

In all seriousness, is there a business opportunity to set up as a consultant to help people who haven't a clue - a bit like Gordon Ramsey's kitchen nightmares.

 

Would people pay someone (like Gary for example) a fee (Gary what would you charge??) to have the absolute peace of mind that the boat would be built to exacting standards?

 

But then.....we'd be in a circular debate about is the consultant up to it rather like the debate on rogue builders !!!

 

 

PS Unrelated but Gary - love the 'Mirfield' website - born and bred there !

[tomsk]

In all seriousness, is there a business opportunity to set up as a consultant to help people who haven't a clue - a bit like Gordon Ramsey's kitchen nightmares.

 

Would people pay someone (like Gary for example) a fee (Gary what would you charge??) to have the absolute peace of mind that the boat would be built to exacting standards?

 

But then.....we'd be in a circular debate about is the consultant up to it rather like the debate on rogue builders !!!

PS Unrelated but Gary - love the 'Mirfield' website - born and bred there !

 

This is a good point, some of our clients ask 'who's checking the checkers' but there has to be a point where you stop the paranoid madness. If you don't trust your auditor/surveyor you have chosen the wrong one.

[RichardH]

This is a good point, some of our clients ask 'who's checking the checkers' but there has to be a point where you stop the paranoid madness. If you don't trust your auditor/surveyor you have chosen the wrong one.

 

Absolutely agree !

 

I started off life in the pub industry and would love to do a Gordon Ramsey on the publicans who don't understand the industry and scratch their heads wondering why the frozen rubbish and vinegar beer is causing them cash flow problems.

 

But.....I think publicans and boat owners have something fundamental in common. Owning a boat and owning a pub to many has been a dream for many years. Many years of design/i'd do it that way and I think the dream gets in the way of reality and common sense. Having someone guide you through the process is rather like spoiling the dream and I just can't see the take up

 

Anyway back to the day job and for the while I'll park the 'consultant' dream........................................!!!!

[Phil Speight]

Yes I agree with Bones. I don't think dodgy customers are in the same league as dodgy builders.

 

People buying boats will likely be sticking a substantial part of their savings into it. It means everything to them and it is heartbreaking and possibly financially ruinous if they end up with junk. It's not merely a business deal.

 

Builders on the other hand are in business and take the risk of the occasional lousy customer. That goes with the territory of selling anything to the public. Whilst they may lose money, it doesn't hit them personally in the same way as it does a customer who buys a substandard boat or where their builder goes bust leaving them with a part built boat at best or at worst, nothing.

 

regards

Steve

How does it not hit them personally?That`s a hell of a generalisation don`t you think! My boat painting business is small beer next to many a boat builder`s - but here`s a very simple example. We have a long waiting list made up of boats from throughout the system . Someone decides they are`nt going to bother turning up and we find out by accident two days before they are booked in for five weeks work. No other customer can change holiday dates etc in order to fill the gap. Who do you think pays the rent for over a month let alone three people`s wages without any income to cover it all? Me. And that really IS just a simple example. We should all play fair , wether we`re buying or selling. Buying a boat doesn`t automatically make you a victim and the desire to do so doesn`t make you a saint . Building one doesn`t make you a rogue by the same token. Neither has every owner needed to save over much to buy a boat in the first place. Luxury narrow boats , and that`s where this all kicked off , are not often bought by paupers. On the other hand I have often said , quite loudly on occasion , that we should look after our customers however much or however little money they have to spend .Come on - let`s have a bit of balance here. Bad customers are a nightmare , so are bad tradesmen and we shouldn`t try and distinguish between the two . Thankfully both are in a minority.

Cheers

Phil

[tomsk]

There is a key phrase that covers all of this rambling and opinion.

 

I use it when making decisions regarding payments and disputes and it is equally applicable to both client and contractor;

 

'Fair and Reasonable'.

 

Stick to this and you wont go far wrong in my view.

[charles123]

looks like its for sale if Iam not mistaken

 

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=57684

 

Nearly £73k, interesting valuation!!

 

Charles

[Guest st170dw]

How does it not hit them personally?That`s a hell of a generalisation don`t you think! My boat painting business is small beer next to many a boat builder`s - but here`s a very simple example. We have a long waiting list made up of boats from throughout the system . Someone decides they are`nt going to bother turning up and we find out by accident two days before they are booked in for five weeks work. No other customer can change holiday dates etc in order to fill the gap. Who do you think pays the rent for over a month let alone three people`s wages without any income to cover it all? Me. And that really IS just a simple example. We should all play fair , wether we`re buying or selling. Buying a boat doesn`t automatically make you a victim and the desire to do so doesn`t make you a saint . Building one doesn`t make you a rogue by the same token. Neither has every owner needed to save over much to buy a boat in the first place. Luxury narrow boats , and that`s where this all kicked off , are not often bought by paupers. On the other hand I have often said , quite loudly on occasion , that we should look after our customers however much or however little money they have to spend .Come on - let`s have a bit of balance here. Bad customers are a nightmare , so are bad tradesmen and we shouldn`t try and distinguish between the two . Thankfully both are in a minority.

Cheers

Phil

 

I agree with you Phil. I bought some paint from Craftmaster - one tin was perfect the other was not - why because I ordered the wrong colour - my mistake! I compared the colour with a swatch and got it wrong.

 

Fortunately for me the wrong colour is a good undercoat for the correct one that I still have a little of.

 

I don't blame Craftmaster in any way for the wrong paint being supplied - they supplied what I ordered.

 

Having been in service industries for many years I am used to customers ordering what they think they want as opposed to what they need.

 

There are many nightmare customers out there who get poor service because they can never admit their mistakes. The modern way is to blame someone else no matter what - lets get back to reality and accept our own mistakes sometimes.

 

If we do dodgy builders will have less excuses about impossible customers.

[mikevye]

looks like its for sale if Iam not mistaken

 

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=57684

 

Nearly £73k, interesting valuation!!

 

Charles

 

Spot on 123 this is the boat that was the subject of all the concerns expressed by the majority of members in this forum. Strange that no comments have been made about its remarkable transformation from wreck to pristine or any apologies to the boat builder concerned who had to suffer in silence whilst all the accusations were being made. Still no harm done except to Barry at Maesbury who has suffered financially and experienced ill health since the episode began.

[Pirate]

Spot on 123 this is the boat that was the subject of all the concerns expressed by the majority of members in this forum. Strange that no comments have been made about its remarkable transformation from wreck to pristine or any apologies to the boat builder concerned who had to suffer in silence whilst all the accusations were being made. Still no harm done except to Barry at Maesbury who has suffered financially and experienced ill health since the episode began.

 

Ha, Mikeyve, the self confessed experienced boater,(see another thread) Who was so clever he

made the same mistake, and purchased a boat from the very same place.

 

It seems that,you,and others believe everything that this builder tells you.

 

The new web pages are now available on the internet for all to see, this time after legal libel

advice, and containing only what can be proved to be true with documentation. (basically the whole story).

 

Its a pity you didnt find out some true facts before posting.

 

Obviously there are two sides to every story as mentioned, and you, and a couple of others on here

have heard the other side, and have been taken in (hook line and sinker), I think thats the phrase.

 

Its a complete pack of a pack of lies, and that can now be proved as fortunately enough this builder was

stupid enough to put his lies into print,it can now be seen by all,( with documents to prove) just how low some

boat builders will stoop.Trying to blame other reputable builders for their shoddy workmanship.

 

 

One fact that you might like to know, is that the builder that you are trying to protect, had actually already admitted liability

for the problems with this boat,long before you posted this silly reply, but only after the builder in question

tried to falsly put the blame onto another very reputable boat builder.(I have seen this in writing).

 

If you were clever enough to know as much as you think you know, you would surely know the true reason why this boat was put on sale.

and why at the price it was at.

If you dont, I will enlighten you....it`s a term known as mitigateing your losses, and unfortunately British

law requires this. In this case it would benefit only the builder.

 

I think, if you dont want to make a fool of yourself any more, you should find out some of the true facts before posting such stupid remarks,

Not what the builder tells you. This applies to Garry Peacock and Phill Speight also, as they admit they have been contacted by the said builder

and given a load of bull S£$te.(see other thread).

 

Thank your lucky stars it wasnt your money that was lost.

 

Incidentlty the whole story is really quite incredible. should you stumble across it, it contains all the reports and estimates

for repair from over 12 independant builders. One such estimate is for £65,000, another at £52,000, I would like to Know how

these were gained if it were a made up story.

 

 

 

Maybe they all got it wrong?

[carlt]

11 months to formulate a reply? Getting quicker and quicker eh Pirate?

[magnetman]

Have you had gender realignment surgery? I'm sure last time you posted you were a bloke.

[carlt]

Have you had gender realignment surgery? I'm sure last time you posted you were a bloke.

I'm just not wearing those tight jeans you like so much MM (though I realise you're talking about our tame troll)

Edited March 8, 2008 by carlt

[Pirate]

11 months to formulate a reply? Getting quicker and quicker eh Pirate?

 

 

Simply for legal reasons, now after 1000s of pounds its my turn to tell the whole story in Fact.

 

I will keep you updated.

[carlt]

Simply for legal reasons, now after 1000s of pounds its my turn to tell the whole story in Fact.

 

I will keep you updated.

I can't wait

[Pirate]

I can't wait

 

 

I see you have NO MONEY to lose my friend, but maybe others have.

 

Maybe my experience can help them.

 

keep on trying to be clever. It shows you for what you are.

 

I have noticed, when its not your money, you can laugh, that about sums you up, I think other readers will suss you..

Edited March 8, 2008 by Pirate

[Pirate]

I agree with you Phil. I bought some paint from Craftmaster - one tin was perfect the other was not - why because I ordered the wrong colour - my mistake! I compared the colour with a swatch and got it wrong.

 

Fortunately for me the wrong colour is a good undercoat for the correct one that I still have a little of.

 

I don't blame Craftmaster in any way for the wrong paint being supplied - they supplied what I ordered.

 

Having been in service industries for many years I am used to customers ordering what they think they want as opposed to what they need.

 

There are many nightmare customers out there who get poor service because they can never admit their mistakes. The modern way is to blame someone else no matter what - lets get back to reality and accept our own mistakes sometimes.

 

If we do dodgy builders will have less excuses about impossible customers.

 

 

Exactly

[carlt]

I see you have NO MONEY to lose my friend, but maybe others have.

 

Maybe my experience can help them.

 

keep on trying to be clever. It shows you for what you are.

 

I have noticed, when its not your money, you can laugh, that about sums you up, I think other readers will suss you..

 

If you can point me towards any posts I've made that read like vengeance seeking, bitter rants, after I lost my home to arsonists, then your comments may stand up.

 

I think, in your search you'll find I was upset, but good humoured.

 

Your comments show you for what you are, Pirate. After 10 months of popping in and out of the forum under pseudonyms, causing troble, you make an arrogant reappearance, attacking Mikes comments that he made nearly a year ago.

 

Like I said, Troll!

[Pirate]

 

If you can point me towards any posts I've made that read like vengeance seeking, bitter rants, after I lost my home to arsonists, then your comments may stand up.

 

I think, in your search you'll find I was upset, but good humoured.

 

Your comments show you for what you are, Pirate. After 10 months of popping in and out of the forum under pseudonyms, causing troble, you make an arrogant reappearance, attacking Mikes comments that he made nearly a year ago.

 

Like I said, Troll!

 

Your assumptions, on what grounds?

 

Oh and its no TROBLE lol

Edited March 8, 2008 by Pirate

[Bones]

Pirate. Welcome back. Don't pick on Carlt though, and this isn't the thread to stat picking a fight, and your fight aint with him.

[wonderdust]

where do you find these new web pages, tried a search but nothing even on gooooooogle

[Pirate]

Pirate. Welcome back. Don't pick on Carlt though, and this isn't the thread to stat picking a fight, and your fight aint with him.

 

Hi Bones I still luv ya ,

 

I dont have a fight with anyone now, but I like to see facts not lies, whats all this I`ve been here when I`ve not lol, and am I not entitled to put folk straight on Mikevye`s assumtions that this boat was miraculously transformed, where the hell did all that come from? Certainly not in the add .

 

The adds were vetted and posted by lawyers.

 

I have done nothing wrong except purchase a boat thats had £65000 worth of repairs needed after 10 weeks old, thats plus VAT by the way. If you want to read about it, its out there now, if you dont thats fine.

 

For that privelidge I have had to spend 1000`s of pounds in legal fees and be silenced for fear of not being able to sell it on.

 

 

I am now free

Edited March 8, 2008 by Pirate

[carlt]

Oh and its no TROBLE lol

Considering one of your aliases, taking the mick out of a typo is a tad hypocritical.

[Pirate]

Considering one of your aliases, taking the mick out of a typo is a tad hypocritical.

 

If you have somthing to say, say it Carl T, I dont have aliases

 

I took it from this thread where you all kindly pointed out just how bad my spelling was, I thought I`d return the compliment thats all.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13548

 

Why is it you are so argumentative? I dont recall ever talking to you before?

[carlt]

If you have somthing to say, say it Carl T, I dont have aliases

 

I took it from this thread where you all kindly pointed out just how bad my spelling was, I thought I`d return the compliment thats all.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13548

 

Why is it you are so argumentative? I dont recall ever talking to you before?

I didn't point out your spelling, someone else did.

 

I think your return post was ill-judged and pointless. There was no need to attack someone for a post they made nearly a year ago but, I guess you got the impact you were after, so well done