Moving a boat from Pyrford to Cropredy

[RodDavis downtime]

Hi

 

I am planning to move my boat from Pyrford Marina on the River Wey upto Cropredy Marina at the end of march / early april. There are 2 possible routes, up the thames to Oxford then up the Oxford South or get on the Grand Union at Brentford and loop round at Brauntston to the Oxford South. I know the GU route is longer but wondering about going up the Thames at that time of the year against the flow might not be wise. Would be interested in anyones thoughts.

[matty40s]

It depends entirely on how much rain there is in the 6 weeks before. I have been on rivers in early Spring(Thames, Severn, Soar, Trent etc when they are as low as they are at any time of year.I have also been on them in midsummer when they are in flood.

You should be able to tell around a fortnight before whether the upstream route is do-able by looking at the EA level/flow information, and the weather forecast.

[KenK]

Either way if the river is on red boards you won't be going anywhere.

However travelling upstream if the engine cuts out, probably your worst case scenario, you are going slower and thus the anchor stands more chance of holding. Going with the flow you are already travelling faster, so possibly more chance of the anchor dragging.

Much easier trip all round up to Oxford, unless you like doing loads of locks.

 

Ken

[OldGoat]

Of course, it all depends on the actual weather conditions around the time that you go. I agree with Matty.

As a 'Local' we use the river a lot.

This year (2014/15) EA appear (I say appear, because for all I know it may be due to actual rainfall and not management) to flush the water through as quickly as possible. looking at recent emailed condition statii it seems that they put the whole River on Red boards quickly rather than work the flush on a lock by lock basis. EA experts say 'it doesn't work that way'...

 

I make the point because I'd rather wait a few days for the water to subside to Yellows or better and then flog up to Oxford - but then I'm a bit further upstream than the OP. I designed the boat for rivers in general, so have enough power in hand to punch against the flow - so it depends on how big the engine is. I'd rather work up than down in strong flow conditions as the boat is easier to control. There are a few locks (e.g Bell Weir and Molesey in general) where you can get sucked towards the weirs in flow conditions).

 

Apart from that, perhaps the thought of flogging up the GU through the wall-to-wall boats no longer fills me with glee. The easier electric Thames and Oxford narrow locks are a far more pleasant prospect for me.

 

If there's a lot of water flushing down, the turn off the Thames into Brentford can be a bit scary in an underpowered vessel.

[Leo No2]

It took me five days (single-handed) on a slack river to get from Shepperton to Banbury a couple of years ago - not going fast but putting in some long days. It was a further three days on to Stoke Bruerne but could have been two if I had put in the time. I have done Shepperton to Stoke Bruerne in five days (not single-handed) so if you go around the top you are looking at about an extra two days (in my opinion and experience) and you have the heavy locks of the GU and the fun of two tunnels. The Thames will be beautiful in March with the spring growth (water flows allowing your passage of course) and you will have the added advantage of the narrow locks of the Oxford.

 

Depends on what you want from your trip but I think I'd opt for The Thames and Oxford. Bear in mind you may be constrained, slightly, by the tide times at Teddington and Brentford.

 

If you look at my blog (link below) and look at September and October 2013 it's all there.

[ditchcrawler]

Hi

 

I am planning to move my boat from Pyrford Marina on the River Wey upto Cropredy Marina at the end of march / early april. There are 2 possible routes, up the thames to Oxford then up the Oxford South or get on the Grand Union at Brentford and loop round at Brauntston to the Oxford South. I know the GU route is longer but wondering about going up the Thames at that time of the year against the flow might not be wise. Would be interested in anyones thoughts.

If I was not confident I could go upstream in the flow I definitely wouldn't want to be running down stream

[dmr]

I keep reading this downstream idea on this forum.

If a river is flowing hard it is MUCH safer to be going upstream.

If you do not have enough power to make some headway going upstream then you will certainly not have enough power to stop (in reverse) when going downstream, and anything that goes wrong will go wrong much more quickly!

 

.............Dave

[Tony Dunkley]

I keep reading this downstream idea on this forum.

If a river is flowing hard it is MUCH safer to be going upstream.

If you do not have enough power to make some headway going upstream then you will certainly not have enough power to stop (in reverse) when going downstream, and anything that goes wrong will go wrong much more quickly!

 

.............Dave

If running with a tide or current you shouldn't be relying on, or even thinking about astern gear for stopping because firstly you probably won't stop and at best will only slow down a bit, and secondly you'll be out of control and unable to steer very much, if at all. Instead you should round up into the tide or current and do it well before you get near to where you actually want to stop.

[dmr]

If running with a tide or current you shouldn't be relying on, or even thinking about astern gear for stopping because firstly you probably won't stop and at best will only slow down a bit, and secondly you'll be out of control and unable to steer very much, if at all. Instead you should round up into the tide or current and do it well before you get near to where you actually want to stop.

 

I was thinking more about stopping on the Thames lock landings where obviously turning and heading upstream is just not an option, and as far as I know a significant amount of reverse is the only way to do it.

 

.............Dave.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

I was thinking more about stopping on the Thames lock landings where obviously turning and heading upstream is just not an option, and as far as I know a significant amount of reverse is the only way to do it.

 

.............Dave.

The only stretch of the Thames I've ever been on is between Dukes Cut and the Kennet, and it was a very long time ago, but as far as I can remember there was a lock cut or run-in above every lock, although one or two nearer to Reading were a bit on the short side. When you speak of 'lock landings' I'm assuming you mean something like a pontoon or dolphin, and it sounds as if these have been put in well above and out of the lockcuts.

[OldGoat]

The only stretch of the Thames I've ever been on is between Dukes Cut and the Kennet, and it was a very long time ago, but as far as I can remember there was a lock cut or run-in above every lock, although one or two nearer to Reading were a bit on the short side. When you speak of 'lock landings' I'm assuming you mean something like a pontoon or dolphin, and it sounds as if these have been put in well above and out of the lockcuts.

The Thames is very civilised, all locks have laybys usually on the towpath side, either brick ort concrete construction. Some have solid metal arrangement fixed to the river bed, but there are no floating or dolphin arrangements.

 

The problem - if any is that some have their main weir in the same lock cut as the layby which can draw you over towards it when you slow down to moor up and wait for the lock. This only applies to the head layby (upstream). That's one of the reasons why navigating downstream in strong stream conditions is 'not a good idea'.

[Tony Dunkley]

The Thames is very civilised, all locks have laybys usually on the towpath side, either brick ort concrete construction. Some have solid metal arrangement fixed to the river bed, but there are no floating or dolphin arrangements.

 

The problem - if any is that some have their main weir in the same lock cut as the layby which can draw you over towards it when you slow down to moor up and wait for the lock. This only applies to the head layby (upstream). That's one of the reasons why navigating downstream in strong stream conditions is 'not a good idea'.

Any stretch of water that ends up going over a weir isn't a lockcut. From what you're saying it sounds as if there are some locks without a lockcut and an unprotected weir ( no piles and waling) immediately above the lock, and that doesn't sound very 'civilised' to me. How many locks are like this, and which ones are they?

[dmr]

The only stretch of the Thames I've ever been on is between Dukes Cut and the Kennet, and it was a very long time ago, but as far as I can remember there was a lock cut or run-in above every lock, although one or two nearer to Reading were a bit on the short side. When you speak of 'lock landings' I'm assuming you mean something like a pontoon or dolphin, and it sounds as if these have been put in well above and out of the lockcuts.

 

Heading downstream from Dukes cut to Reading, Osney, Abingdon (if service berth and mooring are in use) Goring and Whichurch all involve stopping on the flow, or at least keeping some power on for steerage until the very last moment if there is significant flow.

Benson has a lock cut but can need a fair bit of power to get into it (its on a bend and the flow takes the back) and so reverse is needed to slow down before the lock. There are probably a couple more but these are the ones I would worry about if going downstream on yellows.

 

..............Dave

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Heading downstream from Dukes cut to Reading, Osney, Abingdon (if service berth and mooring are in use) Goring and Whichurch all involve stopping on the flow, or at least keeping some power on for steerage until the very last moment if there is significant flow.

Benson has a lock cut but can need a fair bit of power to get into it (its on a bend and the flow takes the back) and so reverse is needed to slow down before the lock. There are probably a couple more but these are the ones I would worry about if going downstream on yellows.

 

..............Dave

If I remember right there's about a locks length of slack water and wall from the side weir to the top gates at Osney, and above Abingdon lock it's wide enough to round up and drop onto the wall close to the lock if it's not ready. I'm fairly sure the run-in at Benson was 2-3 locks lengths of slack water and at Goring and the next one, which was called Pangbourne I think, but looking in a Road Atlas there is a village called Whitchurch nearby, the lockcut and weir layout were similar to Stoke and Gunthorpe on the Trent although the lockcuts (run-ins) were shorter. I don't see how downstream with some fresh on is a problem at any of these locks unless you're approaching the lock as though you're in still water, with too much way on, and leaving it too late to get over towards the lock (side) bank and lined up right for entering the slack water.

There is an understandable tendency to pass side weirs as fast and quickly as possible, but if you ease down your speed as you approach them and move over to favour the opposite bank sufficiently and in good time you'll be pleasantly surprised by just how little they do pull you towards them, with the strongest of the pull at the lock end of the weir just before the point where you enter the slack water affecting the boat only momentarily as it tends to swing a little away from the side where the weir is and then to straighten up and swing the other way as the stern enters the slack ( caused by the little bit of helm you've just put on to stop the initial swing towards the bank opposite the weir).

Edited January 17, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Mike Todd]

If running with a tide or current you shouldn't be relying on, or even thinking about astern gear for stopping because firstly you probably won't stop and at best will only slow down a bit, and secondly you'll be out of control and unable to steer very much, if at all. Instead you should round up into the tide or current and do it well before you get near to where you actually want to stop.

And even then it may still be difficult! http://takefiveboat.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/keadby.html

[Tony Dunkley]

And even then it may still be difficult! http://takefiveboat.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/keadby.html

 

It sounds like it took a lot longer than necessary, rather than being particularly difficult, and all down to them rounding up too late and finishing up a long way below the lock with a boat that wasn't much swifter than the ebb. They should have started to round up about halfway between the bridge and the lock.

 

As I said in #8 : -

" . . . you should round up into the tide or current and do it well before you get near to where you actually want to stop".

Edited January 17, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[dmr]

If I remember right there's about a locks length of slack water and wall from the side weir to the top gates at Osney, and above Abingdon lock it's wide enough to round up and drop onto the wall close to the lock if it's not ready. I'm fairly sure the run-in at Benson was 2-3 locks lengths of slack water and at Goring and the next one, which was called Pangbourne I think, but looking in a Road Atlas there is a village called Whitchurch nearby, the lockcut and weir layout were similar to Stoke and Gunthorpe on the Trent although the lockcuts (run-ins) were shorter. I don't see how downstream with some fresh on is a problem at any of these locks unless you're approaching the lock as though you're in still water, with too much way on, and leaving it too late to get over towards the lock (side) bank and lined up right for entering the slack water.

There is an understandable tendency to pass side weirs as fast and quickly as possible, but if you ease down your speed as you approach them and move over to favour the opposite bank sufficiently and in good time you'll be pleasantly surprised by just how little they do pull you towards them, with the strongest of the pull at the lock end of the weir just before the point where you enter the slack water affecting the boat only momentarily as it tends to swing a little away from the side where the weir is and then to straighten up and swing the other way as the stern enters the slack ( caused by the little bit of helm you've just put on to stop the initial swing towards the bank opposite the weir).

 

Slow is indeed good, but at Osney the water itself is moving so quick there is not much option.

At Abingdon I am always unpleasantly surprised at just how much the flow takes the back over towards the weir!

 

I think either Goring or Whitchurch (or both) have the locklanding on piles so in heavy flow there can be a crossflow under the landing itself.

 

........Davel

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Slow is indeed good, but at Osney the water itself is moving so quick there is not much option.

At Abingdon I am always unpleasantly surprised at just how much the flow takes the back over towards the weir!

 

I think either Goring or Whitchurch (or both) have the locklanding on piles so in heavy flow there can be a crossflow under the landing itself.

 

........Davel

It wouldn't if you rounded up and dropped onto the wall (or whatever's there) instead of stopping end on when there's a good bit of fresh in the river, and if I remember right Abingdon isn't a sideweir, it's straight on ahead so you're just end on with the stern into the normal river current.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Tony Dunkley