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I love a really hot Shower!

Lostsky

By Lostsky
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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

Posted
Posted

To clarify things, I never said you can't get decent hot water from instant gas water heaters - you can, as shown in the original post. The point was, that the particular models which did this are now no longer available new, it seems that Morco are the only company still supplying and their range is somewhat limited for narrowboats. Thank you to the poster who pointed out the Morco G11E, this looks very interesting and is worth pursuing.

 

Now, to open the proverbial can of worms.....how are you going to install this on a liveaboard? There's a bunch of regulations out there.....

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Captain Zim Community Regular

Captain Zim

Posted
Posted

To clarify things, I never said you can't get decent hot water from instant gas water heaters - you can, as shown in the original post. The point was, that the particular models which did this are now no longer available new, it seems that Morco are the only company still supplying and their range is somewhat limited for narrowboats. Thank you to the poster who pointed out the Morco G11E, this looks very interesting and is worth pursuing.

 

Now, to open the proverbial can of worms.....how are you going to install this on a liveaboard? There's a bunch of regulations out there.....

Isn't replacing an existing one okay?

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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

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Posted

Isn't replacing an existing one okay?

 

AFAIK yes, but for liveaboard it needs to be installed by a gas safe engineer with the relevant qualifications; or someone who is competent (another can of worms). There is a lot more to the regs than that, so I'm happy to be corrected on the details etc.

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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

 

AFAIK yes, but for liveaboard it needs to be installed by a gas safe engineer with the relevant qualifications; or someone who is competent (another can of worms). There is a lot more to the regs than that, so I'm happy to be corrected on the details etc.

 

 

But on the other hand if you have it nailed into your liveaboard by any old boatyard DIYer, no-one is going to put you in prison.

 

:)

 

MtB

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smileypete Veteran II

smileypete

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi All,

 

Please can I ask your advice on achieving a roasting hot shower all year round using an LPG instant water heater?

 

My boyfriend and live all year round on our 55ft Narrow boat. We used to have an instant Rinnai which did the job very well. Although the heater flames would cut in and out with the pressure dropping before the pump cycles, the heater managed to warm the water sufficiently to produce a wonderfully hot shower all year round.

Unfortunately the Rinnai packed up and I bought a second hand Morco D61b water heater for £150 to replace it..... However it is awful and won’t heat the water anywhere near high enough. It appears to be much more sensitive to our low water pressure and even when the flames are on full blast it just won’t produce hot water, only warmish water.

I am now on the hunt for something better but:

* The Rinnai instant heaters are not being made anymore and I can’t find one anywhere.

* I began to consider buying a brand new Morco to replace my second hand one (in case there is a problem with it) but have now read that the Morco can only heat the water 25 degrees above the original water temperature. This is absolutely no good considering the water in my tank is now about 4 degrees!

* I have heard that the Paloma's are good but can't seem to find one for sale...

 

Please can I ask what LBG instant water heater and pumps you you would recommend? I am happy to buy a new heater and pump (if necessary) so long as it will provide the hot showers I miss so much!

Thank you :-)

 

With the incoming water at 4°C, it *should* give around 3.8 litres or 7 pints per minute at shower temperature of 39°C. As Dean says that's notalot, sometimes a shower head with smaller holes will give a more powerful feeling shower.

 

*However*, if the water supply pressure/flow is rather marginal, the gas control valve in the heater may not open fully, reducing the heat output. One way to check is to measure the flow from the heater alone with the temperature control on minimum, it should be around 5.5 litres or just under 10 pints per minute.

 

So in short it may be something other than the heater itself, to help know for sure one way or the other needs checking the flow rate and temp rise, and max flow rate for a start. Here's another recent topic on low heater output where the heater itself was OK:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=71890

 

I feel the Morco ought to be able to be persuaded to work properly on full flame but I simply haven't got around to figuring out how, yet, but so many people seem to have this problem I think I should give it some attention, maybe style myself "Morco Mike" biggrin.png

 

Sorry but I can't resist this... Don't you fix boilers for a living Mike, surely you're best placed to work it out...

 

(Maybe my gravity heating layouts aren't to your taste but glass houses and stones spring to mind... :rolleyes:)

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted

Isn't replacing an existing one okay?

 

 

When the BSS comes around it will show a different model and serial number

 

Installation - from the BSS website

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used for primarily residential purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be by law Gas Safe registered. As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of the nipple on a gas tightness-test point so this law also covers carrying out BSS tightness-test with a manometer.

This means that if a boat is in scope of GSIUR and the BSS Examiner is not Gas Safe registered, he or she can only carry out a full BSS Examination if:

  • a bubble tester is fitted and correctly located; or,
  • the examiner observes a Gas Safe registered technician carrying out the tightness-test with a manometer.
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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

My morco works perfectly I have had experience in the past where the pump has not been upto the job.

Suggest check for pressure rating of pump that was problem on my sons boat.

 

Interesting. Can you confirm

 

1) you mean you have a D61 and it works perfectly with a shower please?

 

2) if so, confirm that you using it with the gas flame size set to MAX please?

 

Thanks.

 

I ask because I have yet to encounter a Morco D61 that works properly on MAX with a shower.

 

 

MtB

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

Posted
Posted

This has been useful reading - we have an old Rinnai which I thought we would replace with something "better" when it packs in and it seems the Morco G11E is the very thing - about the same price as the Rinnai (was) as well. Have I missed anything?

 

 

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Captain Zim Community Regular

Captain Zim

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Interesting. Can you confirm

 

1) you mean you have a D61 and it works perfectly with a shower please?

 

2) if so, confirm that you using it with the gas flame size set to MAX please?

 

Thanks.

 

I ask because I have yet to encounter a Morco D61 that works properly on MAX with a shower.

 

 

MtB

My g11e works fine on max flame for both full flow and half flow but where I've never got it to work properly is on somewhere inbetween. This means that in the summer on 25 degree heat you usually have to mix some cold in and in winter on 50 degree heat you definitely have to mix some cold in. This is annoying as it's a waste of water but the alternative is explosive ignition. I always thought it was the pump but now I've got one that should be fine as even that doesn't work. I just figured it was a general problem and stopped worrying about it.

 

Eta: the manual says 1 to 10 bar so I also thought maybe for it to work really well you need to e somewhere closer to that higher figure. If anyone had connected one to the mains, that would tell you.

Edited by Captain Zim
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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

This has been useful reading - we have an old Rinnai which I thought we would replace with something "better" when it packs in and it seems the Morco G11E is the very thing - about the same price as the Rinnai (was) as well. Have I missed anything?

 

 

 

 

This is really interesting. I've never seen the G11e before, is it a new model?

 

I suspect it is because the installation manual is not available on the Morco site. All the other models are.

 

 

MtB

 

Yeah something like that!

 

What's a boatyard DIYer?

 

 

Have a guess!

 

MtB

 

With the incoming water at 4°C, it *should* give around 3.8 litres or 7 pints per minute at shower temperature of 39°C. As Dean says that's notalot, sometimes a shower head with smaller holes will give a more powerful feeling shower.

 

*However*, if the water supply pressure/flow is rather marginal, the gas control valve in the heater may not open fully, reducing the heat output. One way to check is to measure the flow from the heater alone with the temperature control on minimum, it should be around 5.5 litres or just under 10 pints per minute.

 

So in short it may be something other than the heater itself, to help know for sure one way or the other needs checking the flow rate and temp rise, and max flow rate for a start. Here's another recent topic on low heater output where the heater itself was OK:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=71890

 

 

Sorry but I can't resist this... Don't you fix boilers for a living Mike, surely you're best placed to work it out...

 

(Maybe my gravity heating layouts aren't to your taste but glass houses and stones spring to mind... rolleyes.gif)

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Yes I fix boilers for a living, but not water heaters. As you no doubt understand they are very different, but I'm beginning to learn in a bit of depth now.

 

I don't claim to know everything about boilers. The more you get to know, the more you realise you don't know. I'm sure you'll agree.

 

 

MtB

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

Posted
Posted

 

 

This is really interesting. I've never seen the G11e before, is it a new model?

 

I suspect it is because the installation manual is not available on the Morco site................................

Isn't this it? http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/resources/English_Copy_of_D61B_D61E_and_G11E_Manual_31032010.pdf

 

Just noticed the input gas pressure seems to be 37mb I thought I read somewhere that low pressure propane regulators were now limited to 30mb have I got that wrong?

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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Isn't this it? http://www.morcoproducts.co.uk/resources/English_Copy_of_D61B_D61E_and_G11E_Manual_31032010.pdf

 

Just noticed the input gas pressure seems to be 37mb I thought I read somewhere that low pressure propane regulators were now limited to 30mb have I got that wrong?

 

Ah, the manual combines with the D61 and G11E now. Thanks!

 

30mB is news to me. I'll be astonished if it's true but I don't know for certain either way.

 

MtB

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

Posted
Posted

 

Ah, the manual combines with the D61 and G11E now. Thanks!

 

30mB is news to me. I'll be astonished if it's true but I don't know for certain either way.

 

MtB

I knew I had picked this up somewhere. For some reason all caravans/motorhomes manufactured after 2004 must have a 30mb regulator fitted. I don't know what "regulation" covers this and what the implications are if you choose to change it.

 

It does seem a bit odd that Morco market the G11E for caravans yet the manual states it requires 37mb pressure.

 

Anyway it doesn't concern installations in boats.

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raymondh Proficient

raymondh

Posted
Posted

I knew I had picked this up somewhere. For some reason all caravans/motorhomes manufactured after 2004 must have a 30mb regulator fitted. I don't know what "regulation" covers this and what the implications are if you choose to change it.

 

It does seem a bit odd that Morco market the G11E for caravans yet the manual states it requires 37mb pressure.

 

Anyway it doesn't concern installations in boats.

The regulation re 30mb is an EU harmonisation thing and does not apply to static caravans/park homes

 

Ray

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

Hair splitting. None suitable for use as a replacement for a Morco!

 

 

MtB

 

 

I wasn't suggesting anyone replace a Morco with a Vaillant!

 

I was simply making the point that in general gas water heaters are capable of providing hot showers, contrary to what one poster had said.

 

You do seem to get the wrong end of the stick quite often Mike, sometimes it seems intentionally?

 

I hope that's clear now.

Edited by blackrose
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smileypete Veteran II

smileypete

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

So it applies to CCers / leisure users, but not to CMers then

 

Now now!

 

I'll report you to 'Big Dean'... tongue.png .

 

You do seem to get the wrong end of the stick quite often Mike, sometimes it seems intentionally?

 

That's my job!

 

Anyway, back on topic, looks like BES Gas & Plumbing have the 37mb propane regulators so they're still reasonably available.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited by smileypete
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