I love a really hot Shower!

[Lostsky]

Hi All,

 

Please can I ask your advice on achieving a roasting hot shower all year round using an LPG instant water heater?

 

My boyfriend and live all year round on our 55ft Narrow boat. We used to have an instant Rinnai which did the job very well. Although the heater flames would cut in and out with the pressure dropping before the pump cycles, the heater managed to warm the water sufficiently to produce a wonderfully hot shower all year round.

Unfortunately the Rinnai packed up and I bought a second hand Morco D61b water heater for £150 to replace it..... However it is awful and won’t heat the water anywhere near high enough. It appears to be much more sensitive to our low water pressure and even when the flames are on full blast it just won’t produce hot water, only warmish water.

I am now on the hunt for something better but:

* The Rinnai instant heaters are not being made anymore and I can’t find one anywhere.

* I began to consider buying a brand new Morco to replace my second hand one (in case there is a problem with it) but have now read that the Morco can only heat the water 25 degrees above the original water temperature. This is absolutely no good considering the water in my tank is now about 4 degrees!

* I have heard that the Paloma's are good but can't seem to find one for sale...

 

Please can I ask what LBG instant water heater and pumps you you would recommend? I am happy to buy a new heater and pump (if necessary) so long as it will provide the hot showers I miss so much!

Thank you :-)

[springy]

<snip>

* I have heard that the Paloma's are good but can't seem to find one for sale...

 

<snip>

 

forum member Paloma Bob could be worth a try, (you cant PM until you've posted 5 times)

 

springy

[Paul C]

 

 

Please can I ask your advice on achieving a roasting hot shower all year round using an LPG instant water heater?

 

 

You won't.

 

To expand a little, there are 2 types of instant water heater which are currently available to buy new. There's others available secondhand. The first, Morco D61, simply isn't powerful enough to get the temperature up at a reasonable flowrate. The second, Morco F11, has a flue which if installed on a narrowboat makes most canal bridges unnavigable.

 

But worry not, there's an easy way to get a decent shower on a narrowboat: use a calorifier, as fitted to most narrowboats. Using your choice of heating source (engine coolant, gas, immersion heater) heat the water; then use the shower.

[DeanS]

I think I have a simple solution for you.

We have a Morco. My wife likes hot showers...and I mean steaming hot.

 

If you change the shower head to very fine holes, you will get a lot of force and a lot of heat. ( fine holes slow the flow, which increases the temp, and still provides a hard spray effect.)

 

We have no problem with the Morco and hot water....?

[CaptAWOL]

 

You won't.

 

To expand a little, there are 2 types of instant water heater which are currently available to buy new. There's others available secondhand. The first, Morco D61, simply isn't powerful enough to get the temperature up at a reasonable flowrate. The second, Morco F11, has a flue which if installed on a narrowboat makes most canal bridges unnavigable.

 

But worry not, there's an easy way to get a decent shower on a narrowboat: use a calorifier, as fitted to most narrowboats. Using your choice of heating source (engine coolant, gas, immersion heater) heat the water; then use the shower.

I'm not a great fan of instant hot water heaters, go for the calorifier if that's an option

[DeanS]

I'm not a great fan of instant hot water heaters, go for the calorifier if that's an option

 

so you have to run your boat engine every time you want to take a shower?

Calorifier is only an option if you're a CCer cruising every day/charging batts....wouldnt think it's that great for a boat in a marina....

 

just my thoughts. I love our instant heater.

[Paul C]

 

so you have to run your boat engine every time you want to take a shower?

Calorifier is only an option if you're a CCer cruising every day/charging batts....wouldnt think it's that great for a boat in a marina....

 

just my thoughts. I love our instant heater.

 

Calorifier can be heated by sources other than the engine coolant - for example if in a marina, use an immersion heater. Or use a central heating system (gas or diesel); or a solid fuel stove back boiler. There's lots of options.

[Alan de Enfield]

Another vote for using the cauliflower

 

Ours is set at 85^o C, which means that the hot water alone would give you severe scalding - when showering, washing the dishes etc - turn on the cold water first then add hot to it to suit.

 

Cauliflower heated from Engine (when running)

Cauliflower heated from Eberspacher

Cauliflower heated from immersion heater when on mains electrickery

[GoodGurl]

we can heat water from either the eberspacher, immersion heater ( using the genny), engine or the squirrel with back boiler

[MtB]

Hi All,

 

Please can I ask your advice on achieving a roasting hot shower all year round using an LPG instant water heater?

 

My boyfriend and live all year round on our 55ft Narrow boat. We used to have an instant Rinnai which did the job very well. Although the heater flames would cut in and out with the pressure dropping before the pump cycles, the heater managed to warm the water sufficiently to produce a wonderfully hot shower all year round.

Unfortunately the Rinnai packed up and I bought a second hand Morco D61b water heater for £150 to replace it..... However it is awful and won’t heat the water anywhere near high enough. It appears to be much more sensitive to our low water pressure and even when the flames are on full blast it just won’t produce hot water, only warmish water.

I am now on the hunt for something better but:

* The Rinnai instant heaters are not being made anymore and I can’t find one anywhere.

* I began to consider buying a brand new Morco to replace my second hand one (in case there is a problem with it) but have now read that the Morco can only heat the water 25 degrees above the original water temperature. This is absolutely no good considering the water in my tank is now about 4 degrees!

* I have heard that the Paloma's are good but can't seem to find one for sale...

 

Please can I ask what LBG instant water heater and pumps you you would recommend? I am happy to buy a new heater and pump (if necessary) so long as it will provide the hot showers I miss so much!

Thank you :-)

 

In theory the Morco D61 will raise water temperature by exactly the same amount as the Rinnai. They have the same maximum gate rate which is what governs the temperature to which they heat the water for a given flow.

 

However, on full gas flame I find the Morcos have a nasty habit of cutting the flame out intermittently. I have two (one in each boat) and both do it to me, and other people with them have noticed and been driven mad with this effect too. (Previously I had a Rinnai which did the same only worse so I think your were dead lucky with yours.) The fix is to run the Morco on 'Low' flame setting but turn the temp control up to MAX. This works for me but in weather like now the shower flow rate is feeble although still nice and HOT.

 

The Paloma seems not to do this but they went out of production 20 years ago. They are so well regarded though that old ones appear regularly on eBay and fetch £60 to £100. When they don't work a chap trading as 'Paloma Bob' has made a career out of mending them and offers rebuilt Palomas on an exchange basis. He is a member here too so have a search or google him for contact deets.

 

I feel the Morco ought to be able to be persuaded to work properly on full flame but I simply haven't got around to figuring out how, yet, but so many people seem to have this problem I think I should give it some attention, maybe style myself "Morco Mike"

 

MtB

Edited December 30, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[DeanS]

Could someone tell me how much the immersion heater costs on a cauliflower (thanks Mike, I'm stealing that name for a calor*****)...compared to the cost of gas on a Morco?

[MtB]

Not good form for a mod to hijack a thread so blatantly.

 

Immersion heater costs are nothing to do with the OP's question. Start your own thread!

 

Where's GG when you need her?

 

 

MtB

P.S. I think you should report yourself, then issue yourself a warning...

[Alan de Enfield]

Could someone tell me how much the immersion heater costs on a cauliflower (thanks Mike, I'm stealing that name for a calor*****)...compared to the cost of gas on a Morco?

 

I just spent 'hours' writing a detailed reply comparing water volumes, temperatures, dilution factors, gas costs, gas bottle sizes, marina electricity costs, cost of generating electricity on a boat etc etc and then instead of clicking "post" I clicked the big X and shut it all down.

 

So before we start we have to bear in mind two things.

1. The energy contained in propane is 46.44 megajoules per kg and
2. 1 kWh is equal to 3.6 megajoules

 

You will have to work it out for yourself, but, click the link, and scroll down to "Bottles Gas" - the conclusion is :

 

So buying Calor gas to heat your home is a lot more expensive than pretty much any other option, especially when you factor in an efficiency rating of less than 100%. If you can buy the larger Calor containers, you will be paying around the same as electric heating, but due to other options generally being available, we tend to advise people to stay away.

 

http://www.thegreenage.co.uk/cheaper-heat-home-gas-electricity/

 

Table of costs : (If you are paying less than 15p per unit for your electrickery you are onto a big winner (our marina is 10p/unit) with bottled gas from 14p (47kg bottles) to 20p (13kg bottle) to 32p (6kg bottles)

 

TABLE OF HEATING COSTS IN THE AVERAGE HOME

• • Mains Gas – 4p / kWh
  • LPG Gas – 7.5p / kWh
  • Heating Oil – 6p / kWh
  • Bottled Gas – 14p – 32p / kWh
  • Electricity – 15p / kWh

Edited December 30, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Captain Zim]

 

You won't.

 

To expand a little, there are 2 types of instant water heater which are currently available to buy new. There's others available secondhand. The first, Morco D61, simply isn't powerful enough to get the temperature up at a reasonable flowrate. The second, Morco F11, has a flue which if installed on a narrowboat makes most canal bridges unnavigable.

 

But worry not, there's an easy way to get a decent shower on a narrowboat: use a calorifier, as fitted to most narrowboats. Using your choice of heating source (engine coolant, gas, immersion heater) heat the water; then use the shower.

There is also the morco g11e which is the one we use. This model has a higher flow rate and allows you to turn the flow rate down to get a higher temperature. It is almost exactly the same to look at as the d model. Same flue fitting so no worry about bridges. On max flow of 11 litres/min you will get the 25 degree rise, on 5.5 litres per min you will get 50 degree. Which is plenty hot enough. However, we have found you do need a decent pump. We used to have a jabsco par max 4 which was fine so long as you leave a bit of time between turning on and off otherwise you get a bit of a bang. We now have a whale intelligent control pump which is the noisiest pump I've ever heard. On the plus side, at a constant rate of 14 litres per min (3 ish bar I think, can't remember) the heater now works fine. The jabscos are better i think and should do you for most needs. You can upgrade some of them simply by changing the pressure cut in switch. Edited December 30, 2014 by Captain Zim

[Québec]

Just to say we have a Morco 61E, and very hot showers, with decent pressure as well.

[blackrose]

 

You won't.

 

To expand a little, there are 2 types of instant water heater which are currently available to buy new. There's others available secondhand. The first, Morco D61, simply isn't powerful enough to get the temperature up at a reasonable flowrate. The second, Morco F11, has a flue which if installed on a narrowboat makes most canal bridges unnavigable.

 

But worry not, there's an easy way to get a decent shower on a narrowboat: use a calorifier, as fitted to most narrowboats. Using your choice of heating source (engine coolant, gas, immersion heater) heat the water; then use the shower.

 

If this is true then I wonder how I manage to get a hot shower from my Vaillant instant water heater? I use it everyday.

Edited December 30, 2014 by blackrose

[MtB]

 

If this is true then I wonder how I manage to get a hot shower from my Vaillant instant water heater? I use it everyday.

 

 

Your Vaillant that's discontinued in the UK, you mean?

 

 

MtB

[blackrose]

I'm not a great fan of instant hot water heaters, go for the calorifier if that's an option

 

I have a calorifier and an instant gas water heater - I've had the option of both as a liveaboard for nearly 10 years. I can't help thinking that anyone who says that they're not a fan of instant water heaters has never actually lived with one - or at least not a good one.

 

While moored up on shore power I find it much cheaper to use the gas water heater. Calorifiers have their uses too - but they're mainly useful when you're moving. Using a calorifier with an immersion heater from shore power gets quite expensive because you're heating a large tank of water (in my case 60 litres), which will then gradually lose that energy if the hot water isn't used. That's quite an inefficient way of heating water. On the other hand you only pay to heat water the water you use with an instant water heater.

 

 

Your Vaillant that's discontinued in the UK, you mean?

 

 

MtB

 

Yes. But whether it's been discontinued or not, it still works!

 

If it stops working I've found places where you can get spares and if I can't find spares then I'll replace the heater with something current.

 

The point is that I will continue to use an instant water heater because they are better for liveaboards like me.

[MtB]

Ah but your Vaillant is superior in so many ways, and I took you to be recommending one to the OP.

 

MtB

[blackrose]

Ah but your Vaillant is superior in so many ways, and I took you to be recommending one to the OP.

 

MtB

 

How could I be recommending it to the OP? I never even mentioned the model?

 

I'm recommending instant water heaters in general and I was disputing the post from the guy who said you can't get really hot water from instant water heaters, because that's clearly not true.

 

I hope that's ok?

[MtB]

 

How could I be recommending it to the OP? I never even mentioned the model?

 

 

Oh yes you did!

 

"If this is true then I wonder how I manage to get a hot shower from my Vaillant instant water heater? I use it everyday."

 

Post 16.

 

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

We had a Vaillant on the previous boat - yes lots of hot water if you turn the flow down, freezes up very easily and bursts the 'spaceship' water regulator thingy.

For info - spares are available from

 

http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/gas/vaillant_water_heater.aspx

 

I'd much rather have the eber on for half-an-hour ( currently 24p of diesel) and get more water than I need at 85^oC at 'full pump pressure'

[blackrose]

 

 

I just spent 'hours' writing a detailed reply comparing water volumes, temperatures, dilution factors, gas costs, gas bottle sizes, marina electricity costs, cost of generating electricity on a boat etc etc and then instead of clicking "post" I clicked the big X and shut it all down.

 

So before we start we have to bear in mind two things.

1. The energy contained in propane is 46.44 megajoules per kg and
2. 1 kWh is equal to 3.6 megajoules

 

You will have to work it out for yourself, but, click the link, and scroll down to "Bottles Gas" - the conclusion is :

 

So buying Calor gas to heat your home is a lot more expensive than pretty much any other option, especially when you factor in an efficiency rating of less than 100%. If you can buy the larger Calor containers, you will be paying around the same as electric heating, but due to other options generally being available, we tend to advise people to stay away.

 

http://www.thegreenage.co.uk/cheaper-heat-home-gas-electricity/

 

 

I've already worked it out for myself and I'm finding it MUCH cheaper to heat water with gas rather than electricity. The main problem with your "detailed" research is that it's based on gas central heating boilers (as found in houses) not instant gas water heaters.

 

Oh yes you did!

 

"If this is true then I wonder how I manage to get a hot shower from my Vaillant instant water heater? I use it everyday."

 

Post 16.

 

 

MtB

 

No I didn't! Vaillant is the MAKE, not the model.

 

You mentioned that my heater was discontinued - as you will be aware, it's that particular model that's been discontinued, but Vaillant (the manufacturer) still make instant gas water heaters.

 

Perhaps you need to drink a coffee and wake up before you reply Mike...

We had a Vaillant on the previous boat - yes lots of hot water if you turn the flow down, freezes up very easily and bursts the 'spaceship' water regulator thingy.

 

Not in my (10 years) experience.

Edited December 30, 2014 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

What model Vaiilant is yours ?

 

 

We had a Vaillant (Model Mag125) on the previous boat, it supplied the sinks and shower - you could get continuous "hot" water but only at a much reduced flow rate.

 

Freezes up very easily (even before Jack Frost starts) and the water housing (spaceship thingy) bursts.

 

Just in case you don't know of this company (for spares)

 

http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/gas/vaillant_water_heater.aspx

 

Having had both I would now rather run my eber for half-an-hour, use 24p of diesel (at current cost) and have an excess of 85^o C water available at full pump pressure.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

What model Vaiilant is yours ?

 

 

We had a Vaillant (Model Mag125) on the previous boat, it supplied the sinks and shower - you could get continuous "hot" water but only at a much reduced flow rate.

 

Freezes up very easily (even before Jack Frost starts) and the water housing (spaceship thingy) bursts.

 

Just in case you don't know of this company (for spares)

 

http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/gas/vaillant_water_heater.aspx

 

Having had both I would now rather run my eber for half-an-hour, use 24p of diesel (at current cost) and have an excess of 85^o C water available at full pump pressure.

 

I'd have to get the manual out to find out which model as it isn't on the case. It's one of the Mags but mine's never frozen. Thanks for the link.

 

Some of this comes down to the kind of usage and different systems will suit different people. Heating an entire tank of water (by whatever means) is fine, but only if you use the water while it's still hot. If it cools down significantly before it's used and has to be reheated then that's very inefficient, wasteful and expensive.

Edited December 30, 2014 by blackrose