Remote Control Narrowboat.

[Dalslandia]

You could just use a tiller pilot, simples.

 

Good idea, I have never used one, how are they disconnected when going manual`?

[NMEA]

 

Good idea, I have never used one, how are they disconnected when going manual`?

Usually an R pin to disconnect, generally a pretty simple linear drive.

[Ray T]

Whitefield has joystick steering plus just about electric everything else, cratch, bow and stern thrusters...............

 

 

In the words of one J Clarkson "How hard can it be"? to convert it to radio control.

 

http://www.fernwooddesigns.co.uk/gallery3.aspx

 

ETA anyone know where Whitefield is now? Did it ever get sold?

Edited November 15, 2014 by Ray T

[Chalky]

Once you've got the basic controls sorted the next step would be full automation....

[Wanderer Vagabond]

We also passed a guy on the K & A earlier this year who seemed to have full automation. Unfortunately I didn't get the name of the boat but it seemed a very slick operation. He was a person with disability but dealt with the locks expertly (but then why shouldn't he?) whilst steering the boat from the lockside. I wouldn't want it though, what would my crew do all day??

[nicknorman]

 

ETA anyone know where Whitefield is now? Did it ever get sold?

Saw it moored at Aston Marina (near Stone) IIRC.

[Ray T]

Thank you Nick.

[ditchcrawler]

Not directly related to RC, but steering with a joy stick in the canal is never giving the same feeling or control as a tiller or wheel.

but there is also a proportional control device, a "joystick" or lever arm (tiller) that is turned to the rudder angle wanted.

the down side of having a servo steering, in this way is that the speed of the rudder travel can't be changed simply from the RC or cable unit, as you can with a manually tiller or wheel.

Whitfield returns

Whitfield returns

I see you have done that already. I must read the full thread before replying.

[Black Country Lee]

There is a tug moored in Hawne Basin on the Dudley No.2 that has full R/C, they show it off at the local boat shows. Quite a clever idea for single handers' until the insurance get involved.

 

Lee.

[dave moore]

That is Ferrous, owned by Edwin Fasham. I flagged it up a while ago on this thread. A magnificent Gardner sit amidships!

Dave

[Dalslandia]

About insurance, and risks, there is always a risk that the Morse/Teleflex cable will brake or get lose, even more so that the new electronic levers go wrong, in an electrical failure they are just as vulnerable as a RC control. but it is plus if someone is onboard, if knowing what to do that is

[Chalky]

About insurance, and risks, there is always a risk that the Morse/Teleflex cable will brake or get lose, even more so that the new electronic levers go wrong, in an electrical failure they are just as vulnerable as a RC control. but it is plus if someone is onboard, if knowing what to do that is

 

They may make the same decisions as the one that affects road vehicles. The Vienna Convention decided that irrespective of what systems are on a vehicle a human is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. What this means is that if you have a fully autonomous vehicle with only passengers then one of the passengers is responsible if it crashes! The decision was made about 4 months after the film 2001 appeared at the cinema...

[nicknorman]

About insurance, and risks, there is always a risk that the Morse/Teleflex cable will brake or get lose, even more so that the new electronic levers go wrong, in an electrical failure they are just as vulnerable as a RC control. but it is plus if someone is onboard, if knowing what to do that is

I think the insurance worry is only as a result of possible clauses that relate to requiring a minimum number of crew on board. These clauses are not designed to prohibit R/C, it is just an unintended consequence. As you say, most boats are operated by remote control via a teleflex cable etc.

[Chalky]

I think the insurance worry is only as a result of possible clauses that relate to requiring a minimum number of crew on board. These clauses are not designed to prohibit R/C, it is just an unintended consequence. As you say, most boats are operated by remote control via a teleflex cable etc.

 

There's a difference between a bowden cable operating a throttle and an RF link doing the same. The bowden cable can be made fail safe by adding a spring to return the throttle to off in the cable brakes. An RF link would require error detection protocols (that model aircraft don't have) etc to make it fail safe and fault tolerant.You'll also need to implement some form of encryption to prevent hacking. This would suggest a software / microprocessor solution and we're then into the whole world of high integrity software (e.g. ISO26262) and electronics. Whilst its not impossible (some people have already done it) it's a non trivial exercise for an OEM that has to meet safety and liability requlations.

[nicknorman]

There's a difference between a bowden cable operating a throttle and an RF link doing the same. The bowden cable can be made fail safe by adding a spring to return the throttle to off in the cable brakes. An RF link would require error detection protocols (that model aircraft don't have) etc to make it fail safe and fault tolerant.You'll also need to implement some form of encryption to prevent hacking. This would suggest a software / microprocessor solution and we're then into the whole world of high integrity software (e.g. ISO26262) and electronics. Whilst its not impossible (some people have already done it) it's a non trivial exercise for an OEM that has to meet safety and liability requlations.

I disagree. There is but one certainty with teleflex cables to gear selectors and that is that is WILL fail, it is just a matter of when. It will probably fail in the pull direction rather than the push direction. On our boat it is push to engage fwd and pull to engage neutral, therefore there is a pretty good chance that it will fail stuck in gear. True, the throttle is spring loaded to idle but our boat does 2 mph at idle vs 3 or 3.5 mph in a normal canal, so not a massive difference and anyway the failure is most likely to occur when you need to stop, so you push the single lever into reverse, the gear remains in fwd, boat is not slowing down so you move the lever further which just opens the throttle more (still in fwd!).

 

Anyway, can you cite the safety and liability regulations that are applicable to canal boats please?

[magnetman]

snip..........

 

WILL fail, it is just a matter of when. It will probably fail in the pull direction rather than the push direction.

.......

 

Do you mean pull in the sense of what the cable is doing or what the hand control lever is doing?

 

I suspect most cables will fail while reverse, or movement out of forward into neutral, is being operated in an emergency. This would be a 'pull' of the "TFX" control (on my boat) but a 'push' in terms of the cable end's action on the gearbox Forward Neutral Reverse control.

I think a morse cable is physically less reliable when further extended or being extended at high speed so a rapid pull on the "TFX" (Morse single lever control, assuming neutral is in the verical position) is probably the most common scenario for failure I would have thought.

Edited November 17, 2014 by magnetman

[Chalky]

Anyway, can you cite the safety and liability regulations that are applicable to canal boats please?

 

No, however the probability is that and lawyer would look for parallel industries and would quote regs from them. Just because no one has though about the problem doesn't exclude you from following best practice. At the worst case the HSE would kick in or they'd sue for negligence. The defence of "no regs apply" wouldn't work and they'd expect you to have used best practice - which is drawn from other industries.

[Ray T]

Just found this in October 2004 of Waterways World:

 

Remote control

[peterboat]

In September we were going up the Llangollen following a boat called Victoria Plum. This was pushing a butty attached to the front. The elderly owner was single handing, walked with a crutch but could still step across the bottom lock gates. The boat had a radio controlled system with hydraulic drive for bow & stern thrusters as well as drive. The owner said it was fail safe if contact was lost. He moved the boat out of the locks, stopped it & used the bow & stern thrusters to move the boat to the side where he got back on board. The operation was very slick & didn't hold anyone up, in fact it was much quicker than normal single handing. We had to admire this chap for not letting his disability stopping him from enjoying his boat. He said he was an ex merchant seaman and was based on the river Trent.

Does anyone know this boat/owner ?

Think I met him on the S and SYN a couple of years ago didnt take notice of the name of the boat just thought what a brilliant idea

 

Peter