Another generator question

[floatsyourboat]

I am thinking about getting a suitcase 2kw kipor generator as I have been told just running my engine in neutral will cause glazing!

I have an inverter with a 120 amp charger built in can anyone explain to me how plugging a generator into my shore power socket will work?

Will the generator have to be left running for hours?

Is it safe to have a generator on a bracket off the back as the manual says it should use an earth rod?

Thanks.

[magnetman]

I don't think a 2kw unit will run a 120a charger. If it did the genny would be horrifyingly noisy...

I have a 130a charger/inverter and even my 6kw genny gets a bit of exercise... Its an older combi so maybe the new ones are less severe on startup power

 

[floatsyourboat]

So using the engine is my only choice?

[b0atman]

The max rate of charge is only when batteries are well down.

Suggest do trial run with engine run first whilst volts come up then use generator.

[floatsyourboat]

The max rate of charge is only when batteries are well down.Suggest do trial run with engine run first whilst volts come up then use generator.

Thanks.

Is there a way I could dial down the charger it's a 3kw Victron ?

[Robbo]

Thanks.

Is there a way I could dial down the charger it's a 3kw Victron ?

Yes, the remote panel has a dial on it usuall from 1..16, this is the input amps, set it too around 9 or lower when using the genny.

 

In addition 120amp + 20% is around 2kw so you should be okay without the remote panel if you don't have it, in addition the Victrons by default are set at 75% charger rate, so unless it's been changed you'll it's max charge will be around 90amp

Edited October 24, 2014 by Robbo

[pearley]

Yes, the remote panel has a dial on it usuall from 1..16, this is the input amps, set it too around 9 or lower when using the genny.

We've had this debate on CWDF several times in the past. It only works on some Victron units. Certainly not on mine, a 2 year old 3000/120/12 Multiplus.

Edited October 24, 2014 by pearley

[Robbo]

I don't think a 2kw unit will run a 120a charger. If it did the genny would be horrifyingly noisy...

I have a 130a charger/inverter and even my 6kw genny gets a bit of exercise... Its an older combi so maybe the new ones are less severe on startup power

 

Shouldn't be that much exercise, as 130amp + 20% is just over a 1/3rd power of that genny !

 

Yes, the remote panel has a dial on it usuall from 1..16, this is the input amps, set it too around 9 or lower when using the genny.[/quote

 

We've had this debate on CWDF several times in the past. It only works on some Victron units. Certainly not on mine, a 2 year old 3000/120/12 Multiplus.

 

Works on my 10 year old victron multi, and it's in the manual of the ones I've read.

 

Yes, the remote panel has a dial on it usuall from 1..16, this is the input amps, set it too around 9 or lower when using the genny.[/quote

 

We've had this debate on CWDF several times in the past. It only works on some Victron units. Certainly not on mine, a 2 year old 3000/120/12 Multiplus.

 

Works on my 10 year old victron multi, and it's in the manual of the ones I've read.

[magnetman]

Something to do with transformers I think., there was a discussion on it before. No it is not really loading the genny a lot but I wouldn't think a 2kw would start it up at all. my unit is a mid nineties Heart Interface Freedom combi. 130a on startup with low batteries. As I said the newer ones may need less power.

 

 

This thread

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=53741

Sorry its not that relevant as the op has a Victron and wants to use a psw inverter genny.

 

 

I still think 2kw is either too small or will be LOUD

 

And last 5 minutes

 

 

 

Anyway if its a modern engine running at its proper operating temperature bore glazing won't happen

[floatsyourboat]

The engine is a low hours Isuzu.

I'm starting to think spending £500 on solar rather than a generator might be a better idea!

[by'eck]

I am thinking about getting a suitcase 2kw kipor generator as I have been told just running my engine in neutral will cause glazing!

I have an inverter with a 120 amp charger built in can anyone explain to me how plugging a generator into my shore power socket will work?

Will the generator have to be left running for hours?

Is it safe to have a generator on a bracket off the back as the manual says it should use an earth rod?

Thanks.

 

The Kipor IG2600 is rated at 2300 watts continuous/2600 watts peak. Theoretically it will run a 120 amp charger. Problem is the start-up current which may kill/stall/overload it. Even starting with near fully charged batteries will make no difference since by default the charger part of the Victron will drop into bulk mode where it will be obliged (battery bank size permitting) to dump the full 120 amps or so into batteries for several seconds at least.

 

Answer would be to wind down the input current limit on the Victron, initially at least. Other than that just plug it in as you would shore power. Note that there is no earth/neutral strap on this model though.

[blackrose]

Yes I'm not sure where Robbo is getting this +20% figure from, but the calculation should be: charger output x max voltage (14.8v for wet lead acid batteries) x 1.15 to cover inefficiencies.

 

So a 120amp charger would require just over 2kW to run it and the limiting factor on most 2kW generators it's that they only produce 1,6kW rated.

[blackrose]

This thread does make me wonder about the wisdom of installing a big output battery charger on a boat unless you're also installing an adequate generator?

 

If you're on shore power you only need a 20 or 30 amp charger, and away from shore power there seems to be little point in having a big battery charger unless one has the ability to run it.

Edited October 25, 2014 by blackrose

[nb Innisfree]

We have used a 2kva Kipor with our 24-3000-70 Multiplus without any probs since '06. While genny is running we use the remote panel to adjust charger output to match genny's continuous (rated) output.Genny is left on auto throttle so that it can reduce its speed as batteries reach full charge.

 

For us rated genny output is equal to appxox 44amp @24v charge rate so at 12v it wil be around 80-90 amps.

Edited October 25, 2014 by nb Innisfree

[Robbo]

Yes I'm not sure where Robbo is getting this +20% figure from, but the calculation should be: charger output x max voltage (14.8v for wet lead acid batteries) x 1.15 to cover inefficiencies.

So a 120amp charger would require just over 2kW to run it and the limiting factor on most 2kW generators it's that they only produce 1,6kW rated.

I was using 20% for inefficiencies to be conservative.

[Robbo]

We've had this debate on CWDF several times in the past. It only works on some Victron units. Certainly not on mine, a 2 year old 3000/120/12 Multiplus.

What does it say on your remote as you should be able to limit the amount of amps the multi can use, it's one of the features of the multiplus and has been for some time.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Robbo

[pearley]

What does it say on your remote as you should be able to limit the amount of amps the multi can use, it's one of the features of the multiplus and has been for some time.

Mine simply states Current Limiter with a digital display which shows the current setting. But this is limiting the incoming shoreline or generator input, not charge current. When cruising this is set at 28 amps as it is being fed from a 7kva generator and when on a shoreline it is set at 16 amps, or lower in some marinas.

 

This is how my manual says it should work.

 

Yours is a much older unit, though my previous Victron from 2007 to 2012 worked the same as my current one. The problem I could see with yours is that if you have it set at, say 10 amps on charger only, then switch the kettle or whatever, on then you immediately go over the input threshold and trip the unit out.

[bottle]

That's how mine works, the charge current (75% of maximum pre-set) is adjustable by laptop inter connect (VE Config)

 

There is also UPS so if the incoming shoreline/generator is to small then it will turn off the charger and assist from the batteries

Edited October 25, 2014 by bottle

[nb Innisfree]

That's how mine works, the charge current (75% of maximum pre-set) is adjustable by laptop inter connect (VE Config)

 

There is also UPS so if the incoming shoreline/generator is to small then it will turn off the charger and assist from the batteries

Only Multiplus assists. ordinary Multi just limits input amps.OP hasn't said which he had

[Robbo]

Mine simply states Current Limiter with a digital display which shows the current setting. But this is limiting the incoming shoreline or generator input, not charge current. When cruising this is set at 28 amps as it is being fed from a 7kva generator and when on a shoreline it is set at 16 amps, or lower in some marinas.

 

This is how my manual says it should work.

 

Yours is a much older unit, though my previous Victron from 2007 to 2012 worked the same as my current one. The problem I could see with yours is that if you have it set at, say 10 amps on charger only, then switch the kettle or whatever, on then you immediately go over the input threshold and trip the unit out.

That's what we have been on about, and mine works the same (it's from around 2003) including the powerassist option (mine is a mutiplus, so has this feature but it's not really relevant in this case unless the OP wants to power something that has more amps than the input)

 

You limit the amount of input amps the multiplus can use, this reduces the charging current accordingly to what is available, including what's been used on the boat, this works on both the multi and multiplus.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Robbo

[raymondh]

Hi,

My Victron 12 - 3000 - 120 works as Robbo describes, it was fitted in 2007 and I operate it from a mixture of shore, Honda EU1.0i, EU2.0i and a 5kw travelpower depending on where we are etc

When using the small Honda I turn down the input amps on the remote as required but the larger EU 2.0i works without , however I do have the Victron charge set to 90 amps max

 

Regards Ray

That's what we have been on about, and mine works the same (it's from around 2003) including the powerassist option (mine is a mutiplus, so has this feature but it's not really relevant in this case unless the OP wants to power something that has more amps than the input)

You limit the amount of input amps the multiplus can use, this reduces the charging current accordingly to what is available, including what's been used on the boat, this works on both the multi and multiplus.

[magnetman]

Hi,

My Victron 12 - 3000 - 120 works as Robbo describes, it was fitted in 2007 and I operate it from a mixture of shore, Honda EU1.0i, EU2.0i and a 5kw travelpower depending on where we are etc

When using the small Honda I turn down the input amps on the remote as required but the larger EU 2.0i works without , however I do have the Victron charge set to 90 amps max

 

Regards Ray

Sounds like you have a pretty comprehensive power system if you have an eu10i an eu20i a travelpower and 12v from main engine plus access to shore umbillical cord.

 

Belt and braces

Edited October 25, 2014 by magnetman

[raymondh]

Yes indeed we are well covered however one of the Honda's is always in the motorhome, small one when in UK as we may be on sites,we do not often need to operate in summer as we have solar on the van roof

 

The larger one is in use when we are in Europe in winter and when in the Isle of man for our "racing break" end of May to September not on sites

 

The EU 10i is on the boat at the moment and has been in use several times when the marina's main breaker trips out !!!!

 

Regards Ray

[Robbo]

Mine simply states Current Limiter with a digital display which shows the current setting. But this is limiting the incoming shoreline or generator input, not charge current. When cruising this is set at 28 amps as it is being fed from a 7kva generator and when on a shoreline it is set at 16 amps, or lower in some marinas.

 

BTW, you can get the remote to automatically set to 28 amps when using the (built in) genny if you haven't already. There's a relay input on the remote that' when shorted will use a different setting to what is dialled in on the front. All you need is a relay that from the genny (you could use the alternator output wired like a split charge relay). This way you can leave it set too 16amp all the time for shore but will automatically be set to 28 (or whatever you configure it for) when you switch the genny on. The option is not on older remotes, but sounds like you have a newer one. Edited October 25, 2014 by Robbo

[floatsyourboat]

Only Multiplus assists. ordinary Multi just limits input amps.OP hasn't said which he had

I've checked the inverter model I have it's a Multiplus 12/3000/120 and it has a little round screen attached via a cable so I assume this is the remote?