Reasons for not allowing continuous on line mooring.

[Paul C]

Especially as John V himself is a CMer, albeit one who pays for the privilege. So it seems once more the issue is simply one of 'who pays what'

 

If I go into a shop and steal a Mars Bar; where a previous customer has also left with a Mars Bar but paid for it, is it simply an issue of "who pays what"?

[John V]

Maybe the route problem but I don't agree that all of it is intentional by individuals but more as a product of society.

 

Ranting at CCs and even CMs will do nothing to address the issue.

 

I wasn't aware of my ranting...certainly never at CCer's......Intentional or unintentional is in this matter irrelevant, C&RT is primarily a navigation authority with an added responsibility to maintain the waterways for legitimate users. i.e. anglers, walkers, cyclists etc.

 

Some seem to expect it to be responsible as a housing authority...which it patently isn't. If it is going to be a housing authority it can no longer be primarily a navigation authority, in which case the people who use the canals as a waterways transport system will be at the back of the queue for maintenance etc. in other words genuine CCers, holiday boaters weekend boater et al will be big losers.

 

If it is going to remain a navigation authority then people who live aboard their boats are going to have to be more regulated in order to prevent abuse of the system (and yes that will include me to a certain extent)

Especially as John V himself is a CMer, albeit one who pays for the privilege. So it seems once more the issue is simply one of 'who pays what'

 

If you are aware that I have a liveaboard mooring, you are probably aware from past threads of the personal circumstances that prevent me from cruising at the moment in which case, to bring that up really paints a lovely picture of you

 

eta....In my book someone who is a CMer is someone who pretends to be a CCer to avoid paying for a proper mooring.

and that certainly does not describe me......what about you Alf do you even have a boat ? or are you just an echo with 2l's

Edited October 5, 2014 by John V

[Wanted]

Sorry John, wasn't meaning you ranting, just in general

[boathunter]

Maybe the route problem but I don't agree that all of it is intentional by individuals but more as a product of society.

 

Ranting at CCs and even CMs will do nothing to address the issue.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were loads of people living afloat that haven't even read the rules. I'm quite sure I'd have been one in my early 20's. Trog off to London from wherever you bought the boat from, inadvertantly continuously cruising and not breaking any rules it's all going well. Only as you travel along and chat to others you pick up some do's and don'ts second hand from people along the way. No doubt 30 years ago I could have done exactly that, continuously moored and got away with it?

 

I feel sorry for the following generations in this increasingly overcrowded and competitive country. Just existing is far harder work than it was when I were a lad - gone are the days of cheap rent grotty flats. My ex sis-in-law rented a 3 bed semi at £20/month just 20 years ago. Places like this have disappeared. Market rent would have been £80/month Same now is £600/month and I for one don't earn 7-8x as much as I did back then.

[John V]

Sorry John, wasn't meaning you ranting, just in general

 

 

s'ok....I didn't think I had...but I know I can get carried away when I care deeply about something

[cuthound]

They are for traveling.

 

For those who travel so much they actually live on their boat, there is CCing.

 

Sorted.

 

 

MtB

Agree completely with this statement.

[Alf Roberts]

 

If I go into a shop and steal a Mars Bar; where a previous customer has also left with a Mars Bar but paid for it, is it simply an issue of "who pays what"?

If you fail to see the difference between a sugar confection and the place where you keep your home, I really can't help you.

eta....In my book someone who is a CMer is someone who pretends to be a CCer to avoid paying for a proper mooring.

 

And those who don't want to have a mooring or fixed base but want to boat and live in a locality, possibly going on longer journeys at adhoc intervals?

 

Ps I don't know, don't care and don't pass judgement on why you have a permanent mooring but the fact remains that the only difference between you and the boat on the towpath that doesn't move is money. ( leaving aside the issue of services).

 

( and no, that's not the way I use my boat)

Edited October 6, 2014 by Alf Roberts

[Paul C]

If you fail to see the difference between a sugar confection and the place where you keep your home, I really can't help you.

 

 

You fail to see the similarity - in that they're both items which have a cost and a value. Yes, one is a 'service' as such, and one is a physical product which is more understandable/tangible.

[Graham Davis]

Don't worry about it Paul, Alf(Phill) will argue black is white

[Arthur Marshall]

And those who don't want to have a mooring or fixed base but want to boat and live in a locality, possibly going on longer journeys at adhoc intervals?

If they want to live in a locality, then they have a fixed base. It might be the size of the locality, but by its nature that's got to be pretty small or it isn't local. I don't particularly want to pay my taxes, but I more or less have to. As the Stones once so wisely remarked, you can't always get what you want. Sometimes you have to look at the wider picture, and the majority of boaters, I;m afraid, are not liveaboards who want to stay in the same place all the time without paying for a mooring, and the system has to cater for the majority.

[Delta9]

 

You fail to see the similarity - in that they're both items which have a cost and a value. Yes, one is a 'service' as such, and one is a physical product which is more understandable/tangible.

A service is not an item

[John V]

A service is not an item

 

that's splitting hairs....it still has a value

[Delta9]

 

that's splitting hairs....it still has a value

 

It isn't splitting hairs. By stealing the service you might not be depriving someone else of the service. For example CMing on a countryside mooring on an empty strip of canal isn't depriving anybody of anything, but taking the mars bar always deprives the owner of the mars bar from having it.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Delta9

[Sabcat]

If they want to live in a locality, then they have a fixed base. It might be the size of the locality, but by its nature that's got to be pretty small or it isn't local. I don't particularly want to pay my taxes, but I more or less have to. As the Stones once so wisely remarked, you can't always get what you want. Sometimes you have to look at the wider picture, and the majority of boaters, I;m afraid, are not liveaboards who want to stay in the same place all the time without paying for a mooring, and the system has to cater for the majority.

I don't think the system has to do anything. Let's face it, it's not up to much as it stands. I reckon a person who wanted to live on a boat and CM could have a pretty good run of it, in fact if they were only slightly smart about it they could do it indefinitely. Good luck to em I say.

[John V]

 

 

It isn't splitting hairs. By stealing the service you might not be depriving someone else of the service. For example CMing on a countryside mooring on an empty strip of canal isn't depriving anybody of anything, but taking the mars bar always deprives the owner of the mars bar from having it.

 

 

Interesting idea but if you use a concession that allows you not to pay the authority (one way or another mooring money goes to them) for a mooring because your cruising pattern would not allow it (and you have to satisfy them to that) then not cruising to the level that they require is still stealing

 

edited to remove an unwanted "by"

Edited October 6, 2014 by John V

[Delta9]

 

Interesting idea but if you use a concession that allows you not to pay the authority (one way or another mooring money goes to them) for a mooring because your cruising pattern would not allow it (and you have to satisfy them to that) then by not cruising to the level that they require is still stealing

It isn't stealing, because you are not taking their property. You are defrauding them but not stealing from them.

[John V]

It isn't stealing, because you are not taking their property. You are defrauding them but not stealing from them.

 

fair do's on that one .....but it is still dishonest

[MtB]

Illegal downloading of music is generally promoted by the record companies as theft. It deprives the misc company and the band of nothing other than their fees yet it is still regarded as theft by some.

 

 

MtB

Misc compnay? MUSIC company!

[Delta9]

Illegal downloading of music is generally promoted by the record companies as theft. It deprives the misc company and the band of nothing other than their fees yet it is still regarded as theft by some.

 

 

MtB

Misc compnay? MUSIC company!

It is regarded as theft by the music companies because they have an agenda.

[Sabcat]

Music, like any other information product is infinitely copiable, under the normal laws of the market their price should tend towards to the cost of production - zero. The same could be said of a boat on the system sort of (actually not at all technically but for the purposes of this thread it holds). The addition of another boat adds close to nothing in terms of additional cost to the trust.

[Graham Davis]

It is regarded as theft by the music companies because they have an agenda.

 

So you are happy that royalties are stolen from artistes then?

[Delta9]

 

So you are happy that royalties are stolen from artistes then?

Did I say that? I said it wasn't theft, so the royalties are not "stolen". You can't steal something they have never had.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Delta9

[Guest]

It is regarded as theft by the music companies because they have an agenda.

Which is preventing theft of intelectual property.

[Delta9]

Which is preventing theft of intelectual property.

It's not theft..

[Guest]

It's not theft..

Oh here we go again, Delta wants to infinitely pare down the definition of a single word just to show how clever he is.

 

Ok then what is it?

Edited October 6, 2014 by The Dog House