Winter moorings

[bigcol]

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/mooring/winter-moorings

 

If youre a boater it can be hard work keeping moving throughout the winter. To help, we offer winter mooring permits between November and March. On this page you'll find information on eligibility and the range of permits available.

 

Re the above link

Just reading the above, What happens if you haven't paid for a winter mooring, and your iced in, for long period.will they charge you the £25 per day.

If you buy one of these mooring permits, and can't get to it through weather,or closures etc. tough

No refunds

Also if your over 2mtrs width you pay double

 

So you pay for your licence, and now a winter permit, because it's hard to move around in the winter

 

Doesn't come across helpful, or freindly, to me,comes across all about money!

 

They've got to find the money to pay for a chaplain to support the needy and spread the good word

 

Col

Edited September 2, 2014 by bigcol

[Naughty Cal]

List of places you can not moor with a mooring permit.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4360.pdf

 

List of visitor moorings to be offered as winter moorings

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/7085-selected-visitor-moorings-2014-15.pdf

Edited September 2, 2014 by Naughty Cal

[Bod]

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/mooring/winter-moorings

 

If youre a boater it can be hard work keeping moving throughout the winter. To help, we offer winter mooring permits between November and March. On this page you'll find information on eligibility and the range of permits available.

 

Re the above link

Just reading the above, What happens if you haven't paid for a winter mooring, and your iced in, for long period.will they charge you the £25 per day.

If you buy one of these mooring permits, and can't get to it through weather,or closures etc. tough

No refunds

Also if your over 2mtrs width you pay double

 

So you pay for your licence, and now a winter permit, because it's hard to move around in the winter

 

Doesn't come across helpful, or freindly, to me,comes across all about money!

 

They've got to find the money to pay for a chaplain to support the needy and spread the good word

 

Col

 

Only in London.

 

Reading the Winter Mooring T & C's, people who rent a boat, must get the landlord to apply. Only people who's name is on the boats licence, and who live on the boat may apply!

 

Bod

[Alan de Enfield]

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/mooring/winter-moorings

 

If youre a boater it can be hard work keeping moving throughout the winter. To help, we offer winter mooring permits between November and March. On this page you'll find information on eligibility and the range of permits available.

 

Re the above link

Just reading the above, What happens if you haven't paid for a winter mooring, and your iced in, for long period.will they charge you the £25 per day.

 

That is covered in your licence

...........the boat must not stay in the same place for more than 14 days

(or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances);

 

If the water is frozen, or a lock is broken you cannot move, so it is reasonable to 'stay' more than 14 days.

If you buy one of these mooring permits, and can't get to it through weather,or closures etc. tough

No refunds

Also if your over 2.2mtrs width you pay double

Which is only fair - the winter moring permit requires Narrowboats to breast-up, so C&RT get two-payments for that space, if you are a "Fat Boat" then they cannot get two boats breasted up , so they loose the cost of a mooring which has to be made up.

So you pay for your licence, and now a winter permit, because it's hard to move around in the winter

 

Its your choice - you dont need t buy a Winter mooring permit

 

Doesn't come across helpful, or freindly, to me,comes across all about money!

 

They've got to find the money to pay for a chaplain to support the needy and spread the good word

 

Col

[b0atman]

I like the 2 metre rule is this the thin end of the wedge for wide beamers ?

[Alan de Enfield]

I like the 2 metre rule is this the thin end of the wedge for wide beamers ?

 

I think it was actually a Typo by BigCol - it is 2.2 metres.

 

And - of course - they do use twice as much water in a lock, so maybe you are right.

[John Williamson 1955]

 

Re the above link

Just reading the above, What happens if you haven't paid for a winter mooring, and your iced in, for long period.will they charge you the £25 per day.

 

That is covered in your licence

...........the boat must not stay in the same place for more than 14 days

(or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances);

 

If the water is frozen, or a lock is broken you cannot move, so it is reasonable to 'stay' more than 14 days.

If you buy one of these mooring permits, and can't get to it through weather,or closures etc. tough

No refunds

 

From the web page "Exceptions to these rules will be made in the event of persistent ice and snow" I read that to mean that if you can't get to the spot you've paid for, then you should be treated as if you were there until the ice melts.

[cotswoldsman]

From the web page "Exceptions to these rules will be made in the event of persistent ice and snow" I read that to mean that if you can't get to the spot you've paid for, then you should be treated as if you were there until the ice melts.

That would only be the case if you purchased a VM winter mooring

[Dinz]

General towpath permit has no width regulation. Only London?

Had one of these last year and a few boats were already squatting on the VM when I got to where I wanted to be.

When I left in Spring they were still there!

No enforcement.

Everyone I know who bought one felt a complete Prat as the CM's in the area did what they always do. TTP!

Probably won't bother unless CaRT can guarantee enforcement will take place!

No ice to speak of.

 

Let the tirade begin!?

[cotswoldsman]

I guess if you are going to move to a new place every 14 days no point in buying one

[John Williamson 1955]

They're handy if you think you might not want to travel much. It's basically paying protection money to CRT, if you want to look at it that way.

[cotswoldsman]

They're handy if you think you might not want to travel much. It's basically paying protection money to CRT, if you want to look at it that way.

No I do not want to look at it that way.I prefer to look at it as it gives me the chance to moor up for anything up to 5 months. Edited September 2, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[Dave_P]

General towpath permit has no width regulation. Only London?

Had one of these last year and a few boats were already squatting on the VM when I got to where I wanted to be.

When I left in Spring they were still there!

No enforcement.

Everyone I know who bought one felt a complete Prat as the CM's in the area did what they always do. TTP!

Probably won't bother unless CaRT can guarantee enforcement will take place!

No ice to speak of.

 

Let the tirade begin!?

Exactly the same thing happens in Birmingham. I felt like a mug when I bought a winter mooring permit. Nobody else round here bothers.

[Dave_P]

 

 

Also, I have a permanent mooring in the centre of Birmingham now. I understand that this means that people can't use the winter mooring permit within 1km of me then? So why does the list of 'unacceptable' mooring locations include Gas Street and the Oozels St Loop then? Surely they're not allowed by definition. Could someone explain?

[Dinz]

I like the 2 metre rule is this the thin end of the wedge for wide beamers ?

 

Sounds fair.

Does that mean all them pencil boats will get off the broad beam canals?

 

fat bloke on a fat boat!

HeHe

[The Lockie]

Why would anybody want one??? Absolutely the best time of year to cruise if you get iced in raid the emergency supplies!!

[john6767]

 

 

General Towpath Winter Mooring Permit explained

This is a simple permit that provides the equivalent of home mooring status for its duration, therefore not requiring bona fide navigation. These permits are NOT specific to a particular location – you may use them wherever you wish, except for the following exclusions:

 

That seems to read that it just gives a CC'er the same status as someone with a home mooring. Is that really all that they do? I thought they allowed you to stay in one location for as long as you like during the period.

[cotswoldsman]

Why would anybody want one??? Absolutely the best time of year to cruise if you get iced in raid the emergency supplies!!

 

I will give you 2 reasons

 

1. Because sometimes it is nice to just stop for a few months

2. A lot of Continuous Cruisers work in the winter to keep them going during the summer

 

That seems to read that it just gives a CC'er the same status as someone with a home mooring. Is that really all that they do? I thought they allowed you to stay in one location for as long as you like during the period.

Both those are the same thing. For up to 5 months it is a home mooring.

[john6767]

 

I will give you 2 reasons

 

1. Because sometimes it is nice to just stop for a few months

2. A lot of Continuous Cruisers work in the winter to keep them going during the summer

Both those are the same thing. For up to 5 months it is a home mooring.

Ah got it, the towpath becomes you home mooring, not just that it frees you from the required "bona fide navigation". Thanks.

[NigelMoore]

It is a tricky one to get one’s head around, given so many contradictory messages flying around, coming from a seemingly fragmented legal department.

 

The announcement categorically states that it gives you “home mooring status”, and equally categorically says you can reap that benefit wherever you like [with certain exclusions]. In effect, it is a periodic “super RMP”. Where the original RMP’s gave you home mooring status throughout the year but were limited to a specified stretch of canal, the WMP’s are not restricted to any stretch of canal, and are limited only by the period for which they are valid.

 

All [!?] they do, is remove the need for “bona fide navigation”, such that [subject only to the specified restricted places] you can cruise wherever you like, staying anywhere you like, for as long as you like - because the whole towpath becomes your home mooring.

 

That much is straightforward – they just lift the rules for a time. Where it gets truly bizarre is when you place this alongside the newly developing interpretations of those rules, as exemplified in the arguments in the Tony Dunkley case.

 

There, they insist that when away from the home mooring, you absolutely must engage in “bona fide navigation”, [and if you are at your home mooring - or moored for more than 14 days anywhere else – you become a standing violation as a non-compliant houseboat].

 

Here, on the other hand, you are never away from a “home mooring” – almost the entire network is your home, and you have to abide neither by the statutory requirements for pleasure boats nor those for houseboats.

 

Weird is it not? Providing only that you fork out the inducement, CC’ers become the ONLY class of boat NOT required to engage in bona fide navigation!

 

Cheap at the price I guess, for those that want this.

[cotswoldsman]

Nigel the WM excludes you from about 1,000 km of canal so I would advise anyone to think very carefully before taking one.

With a WM you are not allowed to moor within 1 km of a Marina or a LTM so that is a 2 km exclusion zone, yet if you do not hand your hard earned cash to CRT you can moor in these exclusion zones. Not sure how someone who buys on of these permits is supposed to decide what counts as a residential area looks like CRT might need to revisit some of their LTM locations. It seems to me that if you pay CRT for a WM you are then subject to a raft of new regulations that you are not subject to for the other 7 months of the year. As for the 1 km rule for Marinas I would ask all Continuous Cruiser to try and support coal and fuel boats and avoid marinas where possible, in my case I just feel if they do not want me near to them in the winter when I need things like coal on a regular basis why would I want to spend my cash there?

 

On the Tony Dunkley situation what is happening to him not see any updates?

[Alan de Enfield]

It sort of sounds like a third licence classification :

 

1) Those with a 'fixed' home mooring (ala Sec 17 3 C 1)

2) Those without a home mooring (ala Sec 17 3 C2)

3) Those without a home mooring for seven months of the year, but can have a 'moor anywhere (with exclusions) on the system for as long as you like' for 5 months of the year. (No moving every 14 days, no need to moves 'Places')

 

Are C&RT at liberty to invent new licences, or, must Parliament pass an amendment to the Act ?

 

Is this WMP basically a 'pay off' - a bit like the Mafia charging a 'security charge' to prevent a shop being attacked, C&RT are saying pay us £800 and we wont take any enforcement action against you ?

 

Whilst I can see this is of interest to those who dont wish to travel much in the Winter - is it not just another example of C&RT making up the 'laws' without the power to do so. (Read in conjunction with NIgel's post #20)

[cotswoldsman]

It sort of sounds like a third licence classification :

 

1) Those with a 'fixed' home mooring (ala Sec 17 3 C 1)

2) Those without a home mooring (ala Sec 17 3 C2)

3) Those without a home mooring for seven months of the year, but can have a 'moor anywhere (with exclusions) on the system for as long as you like' for 5 months of the year. (No moving every 14 days, no need to moves 'Places')

 

Are C&RT at liberty to invent new licences, or, must Parliament pass an amendment to the Act ?

 

Is this WMP basically a 'pay off' - a bit like the Mafia charging a 'security charge' to prevent a shop being attacked, C&RT are saying pay us £800 and we wont take any enforcement action against you ?

 

Whilst I can see this is of interest to those who dont wish to travel much in the Winter - is it not just another example of C&RT making up the 'laws' without the power to do so. (Read in conjunction with NIgel's post #20)

Firstly I am not convinced these WM are that good to much exclusion IMO. I would however remind you that winter moorings have been arround for many years just that last year CRT agreed to bring in one that was more affordable and they should be applauded for that. It is no different than a CCer going into a marina for 5 months. It is not a licence it is a mooring so why would it not count as a hone mooring for 5 months and in my case with a 60 ft boat for 5 months would cost less than £450 so quite a long way from £800

[Alan de Enfield]

It is not a licence it is a mooring so why would it not count as a hone mooring for 5 months and in my case with a 60 ft boat for 5 months would cost less than £450 so quite a long way from £800

 

Firstly let me say I am an 'outsider' as a Leisure boater, with a Marina mooring, but planning to become a CCer in time.

 

It cannot be a mooring.

 

A mooring is a 'place' - ie a Winter Mooring is a mooring in a certain place, a LTM is in a fixed place, a Marina mooring is in a fixed place.

 

This is a licence to not have to move in accordance with either "17 3 C 1" or "17 3 C2"

 

or

 

You could view it as a Roving Mooring Permit (which in my mind is what it is) and which were declared illegal.

You state that it is a 'Mooring Permit', you agree it can be used anywhere on 2000km (of the approx,3000km available) of C&RT waters - therefore it should be called a Roving Mooring Permit

 

So you can either look at it as :

 

1) A new category of licence

2) A Roving Mooring Permit

3) Extortion of monies to avoid Enforcement

[cotswoldsman]

 

Firstly let me say I am an 'outsider' as a Leisure boater, with a Marina mooring, but planning to become a CCer in time.

 

It cannot be a mooring.

 

A mooring is a 'place' - ie a Winter Mooring is a mooring in a certain place, a LTM is in a fixed place, a Marina mooring is in a fixed place.

 

This is a licence to not have to move in accordance with either "17 3 C 1" or "17 3 C2"

 

or

 

You could view it as a Roving Mooring Permit (which in my mind is what it is) and which were declared illegal.

You state that it is a 'Mooring Permit', you agree it can be used anywhere on 2000km (of the approx,3000km available) of C&RT waters - therefore it should be called a Roving Mooring Permit

 

So you can either look at it as :

 

1) A new category of licence

2) A Roving Mooring Permit

3) Extortion of monies to avoid Enforcement

Fine and your legal qualifications are what?

What were the winter moorings that have been offered for years?