CRT Press Release - Changes to Central London visitor moorings

[Leo No2]

23 July 2014

 

CHANGES TO CENTRAL LONDON VISITOR MOORINGS

 

The Canal & River Trust is making changes to four visitor mooring sites in central London to help make sure the limited space is shared fairly between visiting boats and those who make the capital their home. The plan, which is being put in place in August, was worked on with the Better Relationship Group and benefits from feedback from boaters.

 

The Trust looked at four sites that are popular with visitors and locals, and can get busy: Victoria Park, Broadway Market, Little Venice and Kensal Green. In recent months the Trust has also looked at visitor moorings at Islington and in Paddington Basin.

 

In Victoria Park, half the moorings at the site will remain at 14 days while half will change to 7 days, following feedback from boaters who felt reducing the whole length to 7 days was not necessary in the area. With excellent tube connections at Mile End, the seven day stretch will benefit visiting boats who want a base to explore London.

 

In Broadway Market the Trust will create a new 7-day mooring site of approximately three berths. The area has become a popular tourist destination, with a thriving bar and restaurant scene as well as the Saturday market, and is within easy reach of Shoreditch and the City.

 

In Little Venice the eastern half of the visitor moorings (those closest to the Trusts Little Venice office) will be 7 days while the western half will be 14 days. Little Venice is a beautiful spot and is a fantastic gateway to central London.

 

The Trust had also proposed reducing the stay times of two visitor mooring berths at Kensal Green, but the view from the Better Relationship Group and boaters was that the site wasnt enough of a visitor hotspot to justify the changes. Following this advice, the whole stretch will remain a 14-day visitor mooring.

 

The Trust will be updating the signage at all the sites, including details of the stay times, a clear description of the location and the post-code and grid reference in case of emergencies. We are also investigating the options for rolling out the Volunteer Caretaker Boater scheme and providing a reserved berth at each visitor mooring to help manage the sites and provide information and advice to boaters.

 

Sorwar Ahmed, London boater liaison manager at Canal & River Trust, said: Anyone whos been boating in London recently will have experienced first-hand just how much busier its become. While space at visitor moorings and on the towpath is often available, boaters tell us that they have difficulty finding space to moor, and some people avoid the capital completely because of the congestion. While well never be able to solve all these problems the waterways are, after all, a finite space I hope these changes will make it easier for more boaters to moor up at some of our most popular spots. Im grateful to the help and advice weve received from the Better Relationship Group and other boaters whose feedback has shaped the plans.

 

The plans were developed with the Better Relationships Group, which was set up with boating groups to help improve communications and engage boaters, in particular, in developing local policy. Once the plans were drafted, the Trust emailed a survey to boaters in London asking for views, and hosted a number of pop-up towpath meetings to discuss the proposed changes. The feedback has been incorporated into the final plans. More information on the consultation can be found here: http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/consultations/completed-consultations.

 

ENDS

Edited July 23, 2014 by Leo No2

[cotswoldsman]

Do we get to see all the feedback?

[jenlyn]

Do we get to see all the feedback?

No, that would be detrimental to their statement.

I like the way they have blamed the better relationships group lol.

 

Nothing changes, and I suppose a thankyou is in order for a small minority of boat owners in london, who suffer from selfish intent, and have consequently helped bring these changes about.

I wonder now how many of them will set up their protests and disobedience gatherings?

None of course, mainly because they want someone else to do it for them.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jenlyn

[Captain Zim]

I know that this will already have been covered many many times, but just for my own interest, can anyone point me in the direction of the rules and regs concerning changing time limits for mooring? Which Acts etc? I have trie searchin but no luck. Sorry...

[MtB]

I know that this will already have been covered many many times, but just for my own interest, can anyone point me in the direction of the rules and regs concerning changing time limits for mooring? Which Acts etc? I have trie searchin but no luck. Sorry...

 

 

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=waterways+acts

 

 

 

MtB

[Quinafloat]

I think there is little chance that these ideas are from London boaters, that would be like turkeys voting for christmas. However London is connected to the rest of the canal system and I think that a wider consultation would have been more appropriate. Are these "Better Relationship Groups" just another form of the divide and conquer mentality?

[nicknorman]

It's a pity no mention is made of more 48hr moorings. There is another thread on the topic of the proliferation of 48hr moorings, and whilst some areas such as the Shroppie do seem to be overburdened with them, that is certainly not the case in London. London is crying out for 48hr moorings with a no-return rule - far more so than SB or Foxton! If they were in place, I might actually be inclined to visit London by boat whereas as it is, I have no desire so to do.

[Kwacker]

I concur with you when you say that the availability of 48 hour moorings make you feel that you stand a chance of mooring at a hot spot, whereas many on here say that it actually puts them off visiting.

Could it be that they don't actually want to visit, more like leave their boat there until they find a convenient time to use it.

[Captain Zim]

 

 

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=waterways+acts

 

 

 

MtB

Thanks

[Tuscan]

I concur with you when you say that the availability of 48 hour moorings make you feel that you stand a chance of mooring at a hot spot, whereas many on here say that it actually puts them off visiting.

Could it be that they don't actually want to visit, more like leave their boat there until they find a convenient time to use it.

 

The whole of London is a hot spot , what's needed is to maximise the available mooring space by creating more towpath mooring where it is currently not possible to moor. once this has done then I agree moorings should cater for the needs for all users with a variety of stay times

[magnetman]

What is needed is a variety of stay times and longer term moorings where you pay. Nothing will improve without charging for moorings. CRT have online LT moorings in a lot of places why not do more?

 

Oh its the slowing down past moored boats thing. Well. They are there anyway innit

[nicknorman]

The whole of London is a hot spot , what's needed is to maximise the available mooring space by creating more towpath mooring where it is currently not possible to moor. once this has done then I agree moorings should cater for the needs for all users with a variety of stay times

By all means increase the moorable length but in the mean time why should not the existing moorings be fairly shared out, as opposed to being hogged by the "we got here first, it's our domain, keep off" brigade?

[jenlyn]

These were other issues CRT agreed to look at implementing alongside this new strategy.

However, there is no mention in the press release.

 

-New mooring rings for approx. 32 boats being installed in Camden (Camley St.) and Haggerston (Acton’s Lock)

 

-New casual mooring sites being researched

 

-Additional boater facilities points planned at new CRT moorings, at Acton’s Lock

and the Olympic Park

 

-New water point to be made available in Paddington Basin Approach

 

-New caretaker boaters at LV and Victoria Park

 

-Rembrandt Gardens new moorings

 

-Two new London enforcement posts being recruited

[nicknorman]

Oh its the slowing down past moored boats thing. Well. They are there anyway innit

Given the choice between not being able to visit without major stress as is the case at the moment, vs having to go fairly slowly past endless boats lining the canals of London, I would choose the latter. But yes, clearly we (the boaters) are making a good case for charging for all London moorings as just about the only way of matching supply with demand. Just like they did in Llangollen.

[magnetman]

And the 'those who make the capital their home' thing is odd.

 

Yes, a lot of people want to live in London

 

There is no other capital city where you can live so cheaply as on the towpath in London AFaik

 

When I tell a French friends about how you buy a boat then pay £700 a year to live in an area with a local rent ofat least £10,000 a year for a studio flat they think its mad that nobody is taking money.

 

So if your boat is say 30k you save say 8k a year on rent after 4 years the boat has paid for itself. Even a nice comfy wide bean will be paid for in about 5 or 6 years cos its about £15k pa minimum to rent a decent 2 bed !!

Talking about London Zone 1 and 2 ie Kendal Green to say Limehouse/Hackney Wick

[Tuscan]

By all means increase the moorable length but in the mean time why should not the existing moorings be fairly shared out, as opposed to being hogged by the "we got here first, it's our domain, keep off" brigade?

Given that most boats are currently 2 or 3 abreast whether you make the moorings 24 hours or 14 days is pretty irrelevant , the we got here first scenario applies everywhere so I can see no difference. I don't have the answer beyond create more space or reduce the number of boats. Even if you created for example an area of bookable mooring I suspect demand would far exceed supply.

 

The brief local consultation only came about as Sally Ash published her intention to change the moorings as a discussion document to the local boaters group and NABO pointed out that this went against Richard Parrys statement that no further substantive changes would be made. It transpired that he was unaware of Sally's proposal.

 

We need less localised knee jerk tinkering and a bit more of a national debate around consistency of mooring provision and enforcement that can meet the needs of all boaters whatever the legitimate cruising pattern.

[nicknorman]

We need less localised knee jerk tinkering and a bit more of a national debate around consistency of mooring provision and enforcement that can meet the needs of all boaters whatever the legitimate cruising pattern.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Surely London is a "special case" in this respect? What would suit London wouldn't suit most of the rest of the country and vice versa.

[Captain Zim]

Thanks

Any particular one? Transport Act 1962? I'm not on the wind up, I just want to read the specific legislation.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Captain Zim

[NigelMoore]

can anyone point me in the direction of the rules and regs concerning changing time limits for mooring? Which Acts etc?

 

Nobody can, Captain Zim, because neither time limits for moorings nor [as a necessary consequence] changing such time limits, are covered by any relevant legislation whatever.

 

No time limits adhere to the offside, where the private mooring rights will be limited only at times of encroachment [if any] on the equal rights of others, &/or the rights of the navigation authority to undertake necessary works to the bank. In such instances as the latter, the time limit is more to do with how long the displacement should be – which will relate to the circumstances in each case, but should be minimised as far as possible.

 

So far as the towpath side is concerned, the only positive time limits are those pertaining to CC’ers. There is nothing in legislation about positive rights to moor for all others, beyond that required in the ordinary course of navigation.

 

CaRT are getting it wrong in my opinion, in their spin on the ostensible powers to signpost mooring time [as if conferring rights to moor for certain periods]. Instead they should recognise their obligation to keep the towpath clear and available for all users at all times, and should more accurately portray the limits as the limits of their tolerance before taking action.

 

This may seem overly pedantic nit-picking, because the end result is almost the same, but it provides you with the explanation for why there is no such legislation as you have been looking for. In short [if my approach is correct], CaRT are entitled to reasonably limit towpath moorings as they please, even though for reasons other than is claimed by them.

[Wanted]

Nick, you'd love it, all those windows to peer into, licences to check..

 

In my opinion, the time limit is fairly irrelevant, proper enforcement of the original rules would be just as effective. We will now have piss takers overstaying longer without challenge and cc'ers taking even more flak on their behalf.

 

I'd be interested in the cost of all of these changes vs the cost of a handful of extra lengthsmen.

[nicknorman]

Nick, you'd love it, all those windows to peer into, licences to check..

In my opinion, the time limit is fairly irrelevant, proper enforcement of the original rules would be just as effective. We will now have piss takers overstaying longer without challenge and cc'ers taking even more flak on their behalf.

I'd be interested in the cost of all of these changes vs the cost of a handful of extra lengthsmen.

Hmmm ... Anyway, of course proper enforcement is a necessary adjunct, but it seems to me that if most or nearly all the moorings are 14 day with no "no return" rule, one merely has to swap places with ones mates every couple of weeks to keep within the rules and exclude visitors.

[jenlyn]

Hmmm ... Anyway, of course proper enforcement is a necessary adjunct, but it seems to me that if most or nearly all the moorings are 14 day with no "no return" rule, one merely has to swap places with ones mates every couple of weeks to keep within the rules and exclude visitors.

Not everyone thinks along your deviousness, some of us are law abiding.

[Captain Zim]

Nick, you'd love it, all those windows to peer into, licences to check..

In my opinion, the time limit is fairly irrelevant, proper enforcement of the original rules would be just as effective. We will now have piss takers overstaying longer without challenge and cc'ers taking even more flak on their behalf.

I'd be interested in the cost of all of these changes vs the cost of a handful of extra lengthsmen.

And the costs of all those visits to court.

 

And thanks Nigel, that's what I was wondering.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Captain Zim

[nicknorman]

Not everyone thinks along your deviousness, some of us are law abiding.

Certainly, but equally there are some who think along the lines I alluded to. The ratio? Not sure. But as the mooring pressures increase, folk naturally tend to become more devious if that is necessary for them to be able to maintain their status quo.

[jenlyn]

Certainly, but equally there are some who think along the lines I alluded to. The ratio? Not sure. But as the mooring pressures increase, folk naturally tend to become more devious if that is necessary for them to be able to maintain their status quo.

Yes, I've noticed. I can see your little game.