eberspacher electrical misery

[chubby]

Cheers again Pete

 

I ve done this test and when connected to the batts the pump clicked . Just once but clearly audible . I did this test 3 times and each time the pump clicked

Edited May 26, 2014 by chubby

[smileypete]

Well done!

 

So the pump is capable of responding to power, if it's there, and it looks like it's not getting power OK during startup, though you say there is a faint click, which may just indicate it's getting something but not getting enough.

 

While you're in there can you give the combustion fan a spin to check it's free to move? (Don't forget to reconnect the pump!)

 

Following Bizzards excellent suggestion how about trying starting it while the multimeter probes are poked in the red and black wires after the 8 way connector, to see what the supply voltage after the connector does during startup? And while it's trying to start might as well watch the combustion fan if poss to see if it's trying to spin up.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 26, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers again Pete

 

I ve retested it as you suggest .

the cables after the 8 pin connector = 14.5

switch on

drops to 13.3

 

I m unable to identify the fan . Apart from the dosing pump i cant see anything else inside unless i take it apart . i looked on the eberspacher manual parts list . I couldn t even find a fan on the exploded diagram .

 

cheers

edit : found the fan on the workshop manual but unable to access it on my heater to test

 

cheers

Edited May 26, 2014 by chubby

[smileypete]

Hmmm, not looking so good is it?

 

So it's pulling some current at startup, but not pulsing the pump. Would be handy to have a DC clamp ammeter to see just how much current it is pulling.

 

Can you access the gloplug connector OK? As a last check could be worth measuring it's resistance in situ then reading the voltage at the gloplug while it's starting, seeing if it's getting anything. If it's getting decent voltage then it's pretty well 100% certain the supply wiring is OK.

 

Beyond that have a break for the rest of the day and at least a couple of days, then consider taking it out and to a specialist for them to test, or getting someone to have a look (more £££ though). Maybe NMEA has a contact for Eberspacher or could test it.

 

Could as a last check get a cheap headlight bulb, connect it to the supply at the connector and see how much drop you get but it does seem OK.

 

Anyway you've done a sterling job of trying to diagnose and fix it, at least you know it's not something obvious! Maybe it was a coincidence it stopped after the engine was services. Ah well....

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 26, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

The gloom has decended on me too now . Thankyou so much for your help . to my mind it looks like this .

the pump works when 12 v + is delivered .

12 v + is present after the 8 pin connector even after pressing the start button on the timer

This means 12 v is NOT being delivered after the ECU

 

So if i disconnect the spade connectors ( green wires from ECU ) & i put a multimeter or test bulb onto the green wires & press start button would this show in any way whether voltage is being delivered to the pump ?

 

Last shot this one

[smileypete]

What would be more would be to check the voltage across the pump with the meter while it's starting up, see if it's getting a healthy voltage or indeed any voltage.

 

I'd also check the resistance of the glo pin in situ and check the voltage at the glopin when it's starting. If the glopin resistance is correct and it's getting a decent voltage while starting while the pump isn't, then something is amiss that's stopping the pump getting powered as well.

 

If the glopin resistance is OK but the voltage getting to it is too low or nonexistant, that could still point to too much voltage drop at the instant when the heater powers the gloplug, making it switch off. If the gloplug has gone open circuit then it will make the heater fail it's checks and it just won't start.

 

If you can get a cheap 55W or so headlamp bulb or borrow one, or something that draws a steady 60W-100W at 12V, I still think that'd be a good final test to make sure the supply is OK.

 

It's a pity your controller can't do self diagnostics, it would make things much easier.... Say that 80-90% of problems are caused by bad connections or bad fuel, that still leaves the other 10-20% which may well apply in your case unluckily...

 

Still have a good break from it and treat yourself to something nice

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 26, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers again Pete for hanging in there . Sorry i haven t delivered a result .

 

i can t test the pump during start up as my understanding is the pump starts after 60 seconds and this only lasts for 10 before giving up

 

i don t really see how my glowpin can be tested in situ as i have surely got to take the heater apart the to get to it .

 

Absolutely heartbreaking for me . Fixing it after a year of not working was the biggest technical thing i ve ever done . Three weeks later its fecked . i still can t quite accept that its pure coincidence after the engine service but the mechanics a good bloke so maybe it is .

 

Thankyou to everyone who helped me but i think its game over as i don t know how to test the glowpin or anything else now .

 

If anyone can recommend a reliable trustworthy eberspacher engineer , if such a thing exists , then i d be grateful tho i expect finding the Higgs Boson particle was easier .

 

cheers again

Edited May 26, 2014 by chubby

[smileypete]

Cheers again Pete for hanging in there . Sorry i haven t delivered a result .

 

i don t really see how my glowpin can be tested in situ as i have surely got to take the heater apart the to get to it

 

You could try Bizzards tip of sticking the meter probe tips though the gloplug cable insulation so you can check the voltage while the heater is starting up.

 

Long from the wiring diagram it's the two thicker brown and white wires from the 14 way ECU connector. Same for the fuel pump too if the connections aren't easily accessible, the two thin green wires.

 

If you isolate the heater by removing the fuses, you could pull the ECU plug off and then measure the gloplug resistance via the connector contacts that way (looks like the two plug contacts for the glopin are bigger than the others)

 

ETA: If this can't be done I'd still do a drop test with a car headlamp or some equivalent load, just in case.

 

Oh well one way to while away a wet bank holiday

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 26, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

I m happy test all these things but as i sit and stare at my eber i see no way of accessing any of the parts like the glowplug , the ECU or wires without having to take it apart . All this stuff is within the metal body .

 

Maybe im just plain thick but its not possible to test these parts whilst hooked up to the power supply , or in situ because they re hidden inside the heater .

 

i m going to watch the eber service video again to see if his disassembling of the heater can be done without disconnecting all the coolant & fuel pipes but unfortunately my determination has almost entirely disappeared now .

 

I have to accept that my abilities are inadequate from this point and if i start cutting wires i could do more harm than good .

 

I shall look again at those helpful links that Pete put up & Bobbybass in the past to see if theres any " glowpin test " advice but to my mind you cant get to the electrical connections on the glowpin unless to take the heater to pieces .

 

Cheers

[pquinn]

I think its possible to disassemble the eber without removing the pipes but i would say it could be an very awkward job and maybe just as well to remove it especially if you think you might need to get someone else to test it.If you do try to disassemble it be sure to have one of those telescopic magnet things or a long magnetized screwdriver as you are bound to drop screws or nuts.Save a lot of contortions.

[chubby]

Theres a couple of people on ebay just now who carry out bench testing , diagnostics & repairs etc . Anyone ever used anything like this ? Seems a gamble so not sure .

I was looking to see if anyones selling the same model as me but none found .

Cheers PQuinn . I thinks its time to wave the white flag on this one . Annoys me greatly but ho hum

 

cheers

[smileypete]

Sound like it needs to be taken out and disembowled on a bench

 

Have a good break now, you truly deserve it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[BlueStringPudding]

Chubby, you've done a sterling job. Just like you, my Eber doesn't work 99% of the time. And then it'll seem to come back to life of its own accord making it very hard to diagnose the problem. It's also baffled several Eber mechanics over the years.

 

I've not looked at mine for some weeks (only because accessing it under the stern deck was aggravating a shoulder injury that I have). I've been reading your threads with interest in case something crops up that sounds like a long term solution that I could apply to mine.

 

Out of idol curiosity, when I went out to turn the engine off just now I gave the 8 pin plug a wiggle, turned the fuel valve off and on again and gave the pipes a flick. Came back inside and pressed the 60 minute on button on the mini timer: nothing.

 

Turned it off and waited a few minutes then pressed the "permanently on" button. Nada. Nothing.

 

Left it in the on position for 20 minutes or so. Still nothing, not so much as a whirr or a click.

 

Turned it off again and pressed the 60 minute on button - It's only gone and fired up!!!! It made what I thought were dripping sounds but it must have been the fuel pump clicking for the first time since last summer. Blew out a lot of white smoke but the exhaust fumes remained hot which hasn't happened in a very long time either. I've got two piping hot radiators, one piping warm and one as yet cold. But they've not been even slightly warm in the past.

 

It's been running now for 18 minutes and has just dropped down to a less ferocious whirr but it's still going! I'm impressed by that alone because I've often blamed the calorifier being already hot as a reason it cuts out. But not today it seems.

 

My only concern is a noticeable stink in the back cabin (matron) which may or may not be hot plastic. It's not exhaust fumes and hasn't set off the CO or smoke alarms but it does smell a bit rank. I'm hoping it's not melting anything it shouldn't be but as I've just checked under the stern deck and there is plastic smelling grey smoke rolling around in there I've turned it off.

 

When it cools down I'll investigate it. Hopefully, just a plastic pipe or something has shifted and was maybe touching the exhaust. I certainly hope it wasn't the last death throws of the Eber melting itself! I'll find out soon enough

 

Anyway, aside from the minor plastic burning incident, I, like you Chubby, have ruled out neither the fuel supply or the electric supply as having been the original problem as I gave both a wiggle. So from that point of view my post is not at all helpful. But as it took three attempts at turning it on before it made so much as a sound, I'm thinking electrical. And I'm not ruling out the connection from the timer to the electrics box. It used to have a pull on/off knob instead of the timer but still had problems even then. I think I'll take a look at the electrics leading into the box on mine as a likely problem area.

 

Good luck with your fettling. Hope you solve it.

Edited May 26, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[bottle]

well main topic, sorry Chubby

 

Hi Blue

 

You said,

 

I've got two piping hot radiators, one piping warm and one as yet cold.

 

Now this may mean that the Erbaspacher was not running long enough but it may also mean that your system ( the radiators, not yours) need to be bled and or 'balanced'.

[chubby]

Thats pretty positive BSP . Happy days . Do post back when you try again .

I m in two minds now really as to the way forward . I m pretty reluctant to throw money at

it as

a ) its old - 12 years

b ) they would seem to fail for so many reasons that its possible you just have

to keep shelling out or drive yourself half mad trying to find out why . Or both .

 

The last time it worked a few days back it made scorching hot water which i doubt

a Morco could match , so when its working its fantastic but this underlying lack of reliabilty

makes me question whether or not to get it tested by professionals .

 

Hope yours behaves itself now

 

cheers

[cereal tiller]

Chubby, you've done a sterling job. Just like you, my Eber doesn't work 99% of the time. And then it'll seem to come back to life of its own accord making it very hard to diagnose the problem. It's also baffled several Eber mechanics over the years.

 

I've not looked at mine for some weeks (only because accessing it under the stern deck was aggravating a shoulder injury that I have). I've been reading your threads with interest in case something crops up that sounds like a long term solution that I could apply to mine.

 

Out of idol curiosity, when I went out to turn the engine off just now I gave the 8 pin plug a wiggle, turned the fuel valve off and on again and gave the pipes a flick. Came back inside and pressed the 60 minute on button on the mini timer: nothing.

 

Turned it off and waited a few minutes then pressed the "permanently on" button. Nada. Nothing.

 

Left it in the on position for 20 minutes or so. Still nothing, not so much as a whirr or a click.

 

Turned it off again and pressed the 60 minute on button - It's only gone and fired up!!!! It made what I thought were dripping sounds but it must have been the fuel pump clicking for the first time since last summer. Blew out a lot of white smoke but the exhaust fumes remained hot which hasn't happened in a very long time either. I've got two piping hot radiators, one piping warm and one as yet cold. But they've not been even slightly warm in the past.

 

It's been running now for 18 minutes and has just dropped down to a less ferocious whirr but it's still going! I'm impressed by that alone because I've often blamed the calorifier being already hot as a reason it cuts out. But not today it seems.

 

My only concern is a noticeable stink in the back cabin (matron) which may or may not be hot plastic. It's not exhaust fumes and hasn't set off the CO or smoke alarms but it does smell a bit rank. I'm hoping it's not melting anything it shouldn't be but as I've just checked under the stern deck and there is plastic smelling grey smoke rolling around in there I've turned it off.

 

When it cools down I'll investigate it. Hopefully, just a plastic pipe or something has shifted and was maybe touching the exhaust. I certainly hope it wasn't the last death throws of the Eber melting itself! I'll find out soon enough

 

Anyway, aside from the minor plastic burning incident, I, like you Chubby, have ruled out neither the fuel supply or the electric supply as having been the original problem as I gave both a wiggle. So from that point of view my post is not at all helpful. But as it took three attempts at turning it on before it made so much as a sound, I'm thinking electrical. And I'm not ruling out the connection from the timer to the electrics box. It used to have a pull on/off knob instead of the timer but still had problems even then. I think I'll take a look at the electrics leading into the box on mine as a likely problem area.

 

Good luck with your fettling. Hope you solve it.

A likely cause of the smoke inside the boat would be that a bit of fuel has dripped through the exhaust pipe onto the fibreglass lagging.

 

The flexy exhaust is not very gas or fuel tight until it has warmed up.

 

Wash the lagging in soapy water and let it burn off.

 

Or, remove the lagging and soak it in a bicarbonate of Soda solution

 

CT

[BlueStringPudding]

Nothing was melted when I went in there. Watching it heat up again now it looks like the stinky plastic smelling smoke is indeed coming from where the exhaust meets the Eber unit. The exhaust there is knackered looking, with fluffy lagging stuff hanging out, some exhaust tape repair and the outer layer looks cracked.

 

I think it's worth replacing the whole exhaust pipe (but keeping the silencer). Can anyone show me a link to were I can buy the whole lot as I don't understand what sizes I need (so that's the inner exhaust pipe, lagging and outer metal sheath). It's the same model as Chubby's (Hydronic D4)

 

And yes, the radiators will need bleeding again and rebalancing. Not done it for a while. But neither did I expect the Eber to spring back to life.

 

Sorry Chubby - I'll stop gate crashing your thread now.

 

Chubby - I'd paid a lot of money to Eber mechanics over the years. None of whom have been able to give a concrete diagnosis as they say the faults are intermittent. And none of whom have had it working for more than a few weeks. You've shown such perseverance with yours, my advice is only go down the route of paying a professional if you have spare money and don't mind splashing out £100-£200 a time only to find yourself in the same position a few weeks later! (Sorry all Eber mechanics, I've become a bit disgruntled over the years)

 

Edited May 26, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[chubby]

Suppose i took this machine off wall & removed some outer casings

as needed to reveal the power terminals to the Glowplug .

 

Can anyone explain , in the plainest simplest language how i would test it ?

 

Would it be similar to how i tested the pump ? ie run a pair of cables from the batteries

to the terminals on the glowpin ( after removing the connections from the ECU ) to establish that

it works .

 

My big worry is that the ECU has failed .

If its faulty would the heater even buzz for 10 seconds

 

Again , in the simplest language pls - is there a test i can carry out to establish its

faulty or not whilst i m dismantling it ?

 

i m not very good at quitting

BSP

 

Youre certainly not hijacking my thread at all . Its an eberspacher thread , not mine .

All info is relevant & hopefully others can find it useful .

Can t do a link but i bought parts from a firm called PF Jones in Manchester .

Not the cheapest , but genuine parts . I like thier website too . You view the exploded diagram as in

the eber workshop manuals , click on the part number & it then tells you the cost of that part .

V quick delivery too .

[BlueStringPudding]

That sounds very handy, Chubby. I'll look them up. Thanks.

[chubby]

BSP

 

Im not overly keen on keeping eber engineers in meat & drink . It s just i feel like im running out of options .

I need a plan ( i ll make one tomorrow ) like

Take off wall

take apart

test this bit

test that bit

and so on .

i struggle with terms like " resistance " , " " ohms " etc

 

As long as i can put an order in which to test various parts then ill push on

but i m struggling now .

cheers

[BlueStringPudding]

Just did. At £42 per metre just for the pipe I think I'll look elsewhere!

 

Golly. You weren't exaggerating when you said they're expensive.

 

That website says it's a 30mm exhaust but I'm not sure that's for the hydronic d4 (not all the links on the exploded diagram work on my phone)

 

Eber gurus: is that right or can you recommend a supplier of all 3 layers of exhaust I need?

[chubby]

Blimey ,

 

i bought the little gauze that goes over the glowplug from them £19 . It was

about £7 more than on ebay . But i thought i needed all the help i could get &

it was a vital internal piece so for £7 i didn t want to risk buying from a non approved

eber parts supplier .

But for your exhaust it may be less necessary to have such genuine parts as £42 a metre is shocking

[Paul G2]

A couple links you might want to glance at.

 

The installation manual.

 

A short must-read - Among other things, it seems your model might have a safety override that must be reset if the unit fails to start too many times.

 

Some trouble shooting guide links

[BlueStringPudding]

Although Googling has proved somewhat inconclusive, most sellers of Eber exhausts are selling 24mm not 30.

 

Can anyone tell me whether 24mm is the correct diameter for the Hydronic D4?

 

Oh, and I've found a much preferable way of lagging it than the current method of heat proof sleeve or bandage with another metal exhaust pipe over the top of it: and that's silicon coated heat proof sleeving. Cheaper than the above and a funky colour too

[NMEA]

Although Googling has proved somewhat inconclusive, most sellers of Eber exhausts are selling 24mm not 30.

 

Can anyone tell me whether 24mm is the correct diameter for the Hydronic D4?

 

Oh, and I've found a much preferable way of lagging it than the current method of heat proof sleeve or bandage with another metal exhaust pipe over the top of it: and that's silicon coated heat proof sleeving. Cheaper than the above and a funky colour too

 

 

24mm is the correct size for a D4 (£21 per m from Mikuni), I always use the true marine silencer which has the exhaust tube welded to it and is gas tight, more important for air heaters than wet systems but a lot quieter. Mikuni have used the silicone coated stuff for some time now. Always use a good smear of exhaust assembly paste on connections for a better gas seal and easier fitting, also a good quality clamp, the number of DIY fittings I see using worm drive hose clamps always amuses me, I really like the Mikalor type used by Mikuni over the standard Eber and Webo ones, particularly on the larger heaters with 70mm exhaust.

Edited May 27, 2014 by NMEA