eberspacher electrical misery

[bizzard]

And test or renew that relay Chubby, its probably quite old now and they do usually fail by first becoming intermittent.

[chubby]

Please forgive me as i m sure i ve been advised before but do i now need to test this with a " load " as in a test bulb rather than a meter ? or am i confusing myself .

i ve had a long day and i m wearying fast

 

cheers again

 

eta

sorry bizzard typing at same time again . Test with multimeter the relay ? it definately doesn t click . I m getting confused proper - i m knackered !

 

edit again . Can i get this sort of thing from halfords . if so i ll remove it & take with me . cheers

 

edit yet again . Scratch last question : re reading earlier posts you ve already said i should be able to get from Halfords .

 

cheers

Edited May 24, 2014 by chubby

[bizzard]

Please forgive me as i m sure i ve been advised before but do i now need to test this with a " load " as in a test bulb rather than a meter ? or am i confusing myself .

i ve had a long day and i m wearying fast

 

cheers again

 

eta

sorry bizzard typing at same time again . Test with multimeter the relay ? it definately doesn t click . I m getting confused proper - i m knackered !

 

edit again . Can i get this sort of thing from halfords . if so i ll remove it & take with me . cheers

Hold up, stand fast and be strong Chubby me lad!! Yes sorry I'm delayed busy doing other things at the same time. The terminal prongs on the relay switch should be numbered on their base plate but I can't remember the numbering of what they meant. Two of them will be ''Live feed in'' - neg and +pos. By putting a live and neg feed onto these two should make it ''click''. the other two will be switched live out to the Eber. Perhaps someone can put up a pic of the terminal prong side of this relay switch. But they are cheap to buy anyway, should only be about £3 to £5 at a car spares shop.

[chubby]

I ve pulled the top half of the relay out . Its got 5 pins & 5 holes . I now have no idea whatsoever of to test it ?

I put my multimeter back on the red & brown cables at the 8 pin connector

12.6 v

at battery terminals

12.6 v

 

im utterly lost - surely this means sufficient power is reaching the 8 pin connector ?

 

i ve no idea what purpose the relay has and with 5 pins i ve no idea of how i test it ?

 

unbelievably frustrating stuff

 

edit : sorry Bizzard . typing at same time yet again

Edited May 24, 2014 by chubby

[Paul G2]

Cheers Paul ,

 

So i ve done as you say . The red wire is the one that exits the fusebox and runs 12 inches or so and ends at the 8 pin connector . At the 8 pin connector it is " paired " with a brown cable . Both are quite thick wires . When i put the black multi meter probe to the brown & the red probe to the red cable it reads

12.8 now

 

cheers

 

The worst part about getting old, other than the cancer and heart disease anyway, is the blank spots in your memory, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it should read zero. The current should be passing through your wires and connector, not through the multimeter.

 

We already know the eight pin connector is bad and should be replaced so at this point I would cut those red and brown wires from the eight pin, strip the ends, twist them together, make sure the exposed connection is either taped up or positioned so that it can't touch anything but air and then see if it works.

 

For the purists out there, this is a temporary connection for test purposes and can't be left exposed.

 

ETA - Put the relay back together and do one thing at a time. Bizzard is absolutely correct in what he says, it's just that you have to do this step by step, one step at a time.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Paul G2

[chubby]

im losing the will to live

i have the top half of the relay in my hand .

nowhere does it have a + or -

 

it has the following nonsense on it :

30

85

86

87

87a

 

theres also a diagram which obviously means something . ????

one symbol could mean " battery " ???

It looks like the symbol on a mobile phone indicating " power "

it has a horizontal line on each side with numbers 85 & 86

 

i realise these r pretty crap descriptions but if you re familiar with these things it may make something approaching sense ?

 

cheers again

[bizzard]

im losing the will to live

i have the top half of the relay in my hand .

nowhere does it have a + or -

 

it has the following nonsense on it :

30

85

86

87

87a

 

theres also a diagram which obviously means something . ????

one symbol could mean " battery " ???

It looks like the symbol on a mobile phone indicating " power "

it has a horizontal line on each side with numbers 85 & 86

 

i realise these r pretty crap descriptions but if you re familiar with these things it may make something approaching sense ?

 

cheers again

If you google ''car relay switches'' The ''Toolbox shop'' should come up. On there are pics of Durite relay switches. I think yours maybe the five prong 0-728-63. they show the pics of the terminal prongs.

[Paul G2]

This is such fun when everyone is typing at the same time.

 

For now, put the relay back together and see what happens when you eliminate the faulty connection by twisting those two wires together.

[chubby]

Cheers Paul ,

Just to clarify as i m running out of steam . Again .

The multimeter test im carrying out is on the red & brown cables on the female part of the 8 pin connector which runs from the fusebox .

 

if the voltage is high enough at this point (12.6 ) but not sufficient to fire the eber then the voltage drop must take place at the 8 pin connector .

 

i cant test the relay cos its got a load of nonsense printed on it that look like the rosetta stone & i ve no idea what its for but it certainly makes jo noise at all no clicks etc

 

I m afraid of cutting more wires such as the red from the fusebox & the red that runs yo the eber but i will do it id thats the next step in order to confirm or deny that the 8 pin connector is buggered .

 

cheers

ok .

 

im going to put the relay back . Cut the wires & splice together . Am i right to think that i will need to clip the connector back together aswell .

 

i dont like this cutting wires lark . i feel km getting right out of my depth

ok .

 

im going to put the relay back . Cut the wires & splice together . Am i right to think that i will need to clip the connector back together aswell .

 

i dont like this cutting wires lark . i feel km getting right out of my depth

Bizzard

 

Thats exactly right ! Are you saying that the relay is the 5 pin / top half ONLY ?

i thought the relay was the entire box - including the bottom half thats full of wires and fixed into the fusebox with a screw .

 

If i need only buy a replacement " top half " i ll head to Halfords ( again) tomorrow .

So - where do i put the probes to test it ? if it clicks its working . If it doesnt the relays failed .

 

If its failed i replace it .

If its fine then next i'd cut the two red wires , splice and switch the eber on at wall.

 

So which two " ports " do i put the probes on ? 85 & 86 are my guess

 

cheers

 

cheers

eta this is a confusing post because my last three posts have been merged together .... somehow

Edited May 24, 2014 by chubby

[Paul G2]

Don't cut anything yet. I'm typing a reply.

[chubby]

no worries . I ll cut nothing until i have to .

 

cheers

[bizzard]

The relay is the little black box about 1''square which I presume is what you pulled out.

[Paul G2]

Chubby - You said early on that you had blown all of your red fuses. This would indicate a problem in that circuit.

 

If you look at BSP's photo, there is a red wire connected to/ coming from/going out of/ on the downhill side of the red fuse. Follow that specific red wire. Where does it go?

[smileypete]

First of all, why not start somewhere in the middle so, try connecting the meter between the heater side of the fuses and the heater return cable, check the voltage.

 

Then start the heater and as the heater starts up carefully watch the meter and check the voltage while it's starting up. If the voltage sags right down, it indicates a connection problem upstream between that point and the battery.

 

It's like a restriction in the water plumbing, there's good pressure as the tap is opened a little, but open the tap a lot (like the heater when it connects the gloplug) and the pressure and flow drops right down.

 

Also you might have bit better luck trying to start the heater while the engine is running, which will raise the supply voltage somewhat.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 24, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

Ok

 

So,

Bizzard - cheers . I have the 1 inch sq cube with me now . So all i need replace is this part . Thats good cos i thought that to replace " the relay" would involve replacing what i might best describe as " the bottom half " the female bit that has lots of wires connected .

 

 

Paul . On BSP s foto the red fuse to the right is 16 amp . The red wire it connects to is the one that then exits the fusebox and goes to the female side of the 8 pin connector .

 

I have replaced all those torpedo type fuses with blade fuses . The fuse holder has an LED that lights when a fuse blows .

 

When i mentioned that i had blown all my red fuses it was the torpedo type and i think they blew because i was tampering with the fusebox so much & had wires all over the place .

 

Since changing fuse types they ve been fine .

 

So . I need to test the relay as it doesn t click when i press the start button on the eber timer . The only noise is a buzz from the eber which lasts 10 seconds . Then it dies .

 

So to test the relay ? or shall i just buy a new one ?

 

cheers

[bizzard]

Ok

 

So,

Bizzard - cheers . I have the 1 inch sq cube with me now . So all i need replace is this part . Thats good cos i thought that to replace " the relay" would involve replacing what i might best describe as " the bottom half " the female bit that has lots of wires connected .

 

 

Paul . On BSP s foto the red fuse to the right is 16 amp . The red wire it connects to is the one that then exits the fusebox and goes to the female side of the 8 pin connector .

 

I have replaced all those torpedo type fuses with blade fuses . The fuse holder has an LED that lights when a fuse blows .

 

When i mentioned that i had blown all my red fuses it was the torpedo type and i think they blew because i was tampering with the fusebox so much & had wires all over the place .

 

Since changing fuse types they ve been fine .

 

So . I need to test the relay as it doesn t click when i press the start button on the eber timer . The only noise is a buzz from the eber which lasts 10 seconds . Then it dies .

 

So to test the relay ? or shall i just buy a new one ?

 

cheers

I can't remember the terminals to test on that relay, probably the two thickest ones, but peruse that ''The toolbox'' website. That 5 prongrelay is about £6

[smileypete]

Does the heater normally buzz when you switch it on? The buzz could be a gloplug or some other switching relay in the eberspacher which closes to power something, then opens as the voltage drops right down, then closes again as the voltage recovers and so on, at high speed.

 

Doesn't mean something is wrong with the relay, just that the power supply is inadequate due to a poor connection.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

[chubby]

ok

 

well im now totally demoralised as i m just gojng round in circles and just getting more and more frustrated .

 

Pete

i don t know what a " heater return cable " is .

You say to test on the " heater side " . I ve tested after the fusebox and to my mind this is therefore on the heater side .

 

i put a black probe on a brown cable . I put a red probe on a red wire . On the 8 pin connector these are one above the other .

it reads 13v

 

if i press the start button on the eber it doesn t change . The timer starts counting down from 60 minutes but nothing alters .

 

Now , from memory , to test for a " voltage drop " i need to connect a probe to the same brown wire but instead of red i connect instead to a yellow wire located on the opposite end of the 8 pin connector . The voltage drops to 11.5 .

 

i really don t know what to do now . I m losing the plot

 

cheers

[bizzard]

ok

 

well im now totally demoralised as i m just gojng round in circles and just getting more and more frustrated .

 

Pete

i don t know what a " heater return cable " is .

You say to test on the " heater side " . I ve tested after the fusebox and to my mind this is therefore on the heater side .

 

i put a black probe on a brown cable . I put a red probe on a red wire . On the 8 pin connector these are one above the other .

it reads 13v

 

if i press the start button on the eber it doesn t change . The timer starts counting down from 60 minutes but nothing alters .

 

Now , from memory , to test for a " voltage drop " i need to connect a probe to the same brown wire but instead of red i connect instead to a yellow wire located on the opposite end of the 8 pin connector . The voltage drops to 11.5 .

 

i really don t know what to do now . I m losing the plot

 

cheers

Jack it in for the night Chubby. You'll feel much better and get to grips with it in the morning.

[Paul G2]

Replacing the relay would be an inexpensive bit of maintenance, and much easier for you than testing it.

 

You have already determined that the eight pin connector is not functioning properly. Until you make good connections at that junction, pretty much everything else is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and a complete waste of time.

 

That being said, too many cooks spoil the broth and I'm sure Bizzard and Pete know more about this than I do, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation. Best of luck with your problem!

 

[chubby]

Cheers Pete

 

When i switch it on it always buzzes , then a fan kicks in and shortly afterwards the pump starts clicking .

 

i m worn out now . This machine has exhausted me tonight . sorry i haven t delivered a result . Tomorrow after work i ll head to halfords to buy a new relay . Bizzard , who i trust implicitly , says it ought to click . It doesn t . No sound comes from the fuse box . I have no idea what it does but i do have 12 v + at the 8 pin connector after the fusebox so i m totally confused .

 

My gut instinct says its the 8 pin connector thats not allowing power to go any further . To my mind if theres 12v + at the connector , but insufficient power to start the heater then that connector must surely be at fault .

 

If it is then it means cutting lots of cables and crimping lots of connections and i just don t inderstand how it worked fine for 3 weeks & then previously fine connections fail .

 

Another cuppa i think .

Cheers for all your help this evening i m very grateful

Edited May 24, 2014 by chubby

[Paul G2]

ok

 

well im now totally demoralised as i m just gojng round in circles and just getting more and more frustrated .

 

Pete

i don t know what a " heater return cable " is .

You say to test on the " heater side " . I ve tested after the fusebox and to my mind this is therefore on the heater side .

 

i put a black probe on a brown cable . I put a red probe on a red wire . On the 8 pin connector these are one above the other .

it reads 13v

 

if i press the start button on the eber it doesn t change . The timer starts counting down from 60 minutes but nothing alters .

 

Now , from memory , to test for a " voltage drop " i need to connect a probe to the same brown wire but instead of red i connect instead to a yellow wire located on the opposite end of the 8 pin connector . The voltage drops to 11.5 .

 

i really don t know what to do now . I m losing the plot

 

cheers

 

When talking about the connector, use the terms "male end" and "female end" - it make what you are saying extremely more understandable.

[bizzard]

Cheers Pete

 

When i switch it on it always buzzes , then a fan kicks in and shortly afterwards the pump starts clicking .

 

i m worn out now . This machine has exhausted me tonight . sorry i haven t delivered a result . Tomorrow after work i ll head to halfords to buy a new relay . Bizzard , who i trust implicitly , says it ought to click . It doesn t . No sound comes from the fuse box . I have no idea what it does but i do have 12 v + at the 8 pin connector after the fusebox so i m totally confused .

 

My gut instinct says its the 8 pin connector thats not allowing power to go any further . To my mind if theres 12v + at the connector , but insufficient power to start the heater then that connector must surely be at fault .

 

If it is then it means cutting lots of cables and crimping lots of connections and i just don t inderstand how it worked fine for 3 weeks & then previously fine connections fail .

 

Another cuppa i think .

Cheers for all your help this evening i m very grateful

Take the old relay with you as a pattern to compare with.

[chubby]

Will do . I ve reserved a 5 pin 30 amp relay from Halfords & will collect this afternoon after work .

 

mostly i can t wait to get back to my boat , despite it driving me half bonkers ... but today im dreading cracking on again

 

i ll be back on here around 4 or 5

 

 

cheers again

[NMEA]

Sorry I have not got back before as i was driving down to Cornwall for a nice pampered break (I need it now after 8 bloody hour drive) the advice given is sound so I will not comment further and complicate the job but I'll watch for further clues.