eberspacher electrical misery

[chubby]

Ok

 

So in desperation i went back and REALLY forced the 8 pin connector together .

Turned it on

swore a little ,

Tried again

More profanities .

Tried again - out of desperation ...

 

Buzz lasted more than 10 seconds

15

20

Tick............ tick .............. tick

tick , tick , tick

 

Its been running for 9 minutes

 

I ll be back

 

cheers

 

Edit to add :

 

It died ... one minute later !

Bastard

 

Trying again now

 

edit again

 

died after 6 minutes

Edited May 23, 2014 by chubby

[chubby]

Currently running 12 mins

Rads getting hotter

occasional increases in volume from a fan of some sort .

Mostly this fan is even toned

pump ticking evenly & quickly

 

Now at 14 mins & still going

 

i can hear an occasional strange " howling " sound

 

17 mins - fan even , pump even & fast

 

Rads hotter

 

19 mins & seems to be back to as before . I ' ll report back if it dies or if it gets to 1 hour . if it does i ll run it again

 

then have a scorching shower !!!!

[bizzard]

Currently running 12 mins

Rads getting hotter

occasional increases in volume from a fan of some sort .

Mostly this fan is even toned

pump ticking evenly & quickly

 

Now at 14 mins & still going

 

i can hear an occasional strange " howling " sound

 

17 mins - fan even , pump even & fast

 

Rads hotter

 

19 mins & seems to be back to as before . I ' ll report back if it dies or if it gets to 1 hour . if it does i ll run it again

 

then have a scorching shower !!!!

Do what I said in my post 46 to those plug and socket connectors Chubby.

[chubby]

Cheers Bizzard

 

I will certainly be doing as you say . I ' m not entirely sure but i think the 8 pin connector that links fusebox , timer & heater may be a bit iffy . So i will use the spray you mention & pay attention to the female half of the connector .

The two halves do not make a convincing " snap " when fitted together .

 

Once i ve done as you suggest i ll set about sourcing this tape you mention . By self amalgamating tape do you mean it will essentially create a strong seal ? This would be good as it isn t something that should need taking apart often . I m looking to make this set up as reliable as possible so these connections must be solid . I ve changed those rubbish torpedo type fuses to the more reliable blade type which have a small LED to indicate a blown fuse , thanks to NMEA , so they should be much better .

 

The heaters 15 mins into its second 1 hour cycle . Rads are hot & water is piping hot too .

[bizzard]

Cheers Bizzard

 

I will certainly be doing as you say . I ' m not entirely sure but i think the 8 pin connector that links fusebox , timer & heater may be a bit iffy . So i will use the spray you mention & pay attention to the female half of the connector .

The two halves do not make a convincing " snap " when fitted together .

 

Once i ve done as you suggest i ll set about sourcing this tape you mention . By self amalgamating tape do you mean it will essentially create a strong seal ? This would be good as it isn t something that should need taking apart often . I m looking to make this set up as reliable as possible so these connections must be solid . I ve changed those rubbish torpedo type fuses to the more reliable blade type which have a small LED to indicate a blown fuse , thanks to NMEA , so they should be much better .

 

The heaters 15 mins into its second 1 hour cycle . Rads are hot & water is piping hot too .

Yes you bind it around with a little stretch tension and it moulds itself into itself into a solid but flexible completely waterproof seal. You could of course renew the connectors by swapping wires over one by one so you don't get them mixed up.

Edited May 23, 2014 by bizzard

[Paul G2]

Chubby - It sounds like you have narrowed this down to a faulty eight-pin connector. Do yourself a favor and replace the connector. What Bizzard has suggested might be okay for a good connector with a bit of corrosion, but your connector sounds like it is a piece of junk. Faulty electrical connections do not get better with time, they get worse.

 

Do like Bizzard suggested and replace one wire at a time so that they all match up correctly. I would suggest that you cut the wires from the connector with just a little bit of the wire left in the old connector, enough that you can clearly distinguish the colors so that you can check and double check that you hooked it all up right.

 

JMHO

 

ETA - looking at the photo that BSP posted, is that little black boxy thing what you are calling the "eight pin connector"?

Edited May 24, 2014 by Paul G2

[NMEA]

Personally I would and do replace the 8 way plug and socket with a decent quality multi water resistant disconnect to ease future disconnection and re connection. But, if you must do it by replacing each conductor individually don't use the horrid Red, Yellow, Blue pre insulated crimps, they are no better, in fact worse than the thing you are replacing. You already have the old "ass cheek" crimp tool I gave you so you can use the open barrel tinned Japanese bullets with sleeves like the ones I gave you for the fuse harness, a smear of contralube 770 on the terminals and they will last indefinitely, I have had them in use in salt water environments for years on critical applications like nav kit and bilge pumps without a failure. I can put a handful of males & females and sleeves in a jiffy bag with enough spare to practise on and or to allow for failure to crimp properly if you want

[chubby]

Cheers guys

 

Ok . So we're saying that the 8 pin connector harness that links the eber fusebox , timer & heater together is in need of replacement .

The interior of the connector , both male & female show no corrosion as such . Everything looks as you would hope and looks to me in good nick .

However , the connector isn t supported . The cable exits the eber fusebox & loops about 12 inches & connects to the 12 inches of cable that enters the heater . So the cable just hangs there & this may put unwanted strain on the connector harness .

 

NMEA , are you suggesting then that i dispense with the 8 pin connector & replace with a different " connector " ? Or are you saying to connect the wires from each side with no " harness " as such - using the bullet connectors instead ?

 

Cheers again

[NMEA]

Not now you've said it's all clean and bright, just disconnect it and put some Servisol or Contralube 770 on the contacts, put it back together and support the cables with some P clips.

[chubby]

Cheers again NMEA ,

 

Will do . Just back from work and turned on eber . Bloody thing died again after 2 minutes . Next two attempts it died after 10 seconds with no click from the pump .

Last night it ran for two hours so its beginning to destroy my resolve now as it seems to fail randomly .

Is there any test i can do on these effing wires as im reaching the point where i cant go forward as it just seems to fail for reasons i cant figure . Last night fine , today its dead ... but nothings changed .

[smileypete]

If/when you can get it working, how about measure and record the voltage at different points in the system.

 

Do it both while starting with gloplug on, and while running, including after the internal fuses and at the gloplug. Then if it plays up just repeat the measurements, hopefully it will help show if a connection is down. Some small croc clip leads to connect between meter and circuit can be helpful here.

 

Dunno what the 8 way connector is like but sometimes you can release the contacts by looking in them with a torch and sliding a thin jewellers screwdriver in down the side to free a locking tab, then pop them out to see what they're like and check they're a tight fit with each other.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited May 24, 2014 by smileypete

[chubby]

cheers Pete

 

i think im pretty much done to be honest . Very depressing but i m out of steam now . I m gonna have to look at getting someone in to just get at the wires , replace all the potentially crap connections regardless of whether they re faulty or not so that everythings 100% new & fit for purpose .

I need this effing to just work ... like it did last night and i think a total ripout of all the old stuff is possibly the only thing i can think of as i just dont have the skills or the time to dedicate as i m flat out with work .

As i say very dispiriting after coming this far

never mind .

Time for a cuppa

 

cheers

[Paul G2]

Not now you've said it's all clean and bright, just disconnect it and put some Servisol or Contralube 770 on the contacts, put it back together and support the cables with some P clips.

 

NMEA - You are obviously more familiar with marine electrical systems than I am, and the OP ignored my question so I'll ask you, is that black rectangular box on the right side of the photo what is being referred to as "the eight pin connector"?

 

If so, enlarge the photo and look at the face of the top half of the black box. Is that not a wiring diagram? If it is a wiring diagram, does it not suggest that that box contains some kind of switching mechanism?

 

ETA - What's the situation with safety features on that unit? This could be something as simple as a defective thermocouple, could it not?

Edited May 24, 2014 by Paul G2

[bizzard]

 

NMEA - You are obviously more familiar with marine electrical systems than I am, and the OP ignored my question so I'll ask you, is that black rectangular box on the right side of the photo what is being referred to as "the eight pin connector"?

 

If so, enlarge the photo and look at the face of the top half of the black box. Is that not a wiring diagram? If it is a wiring diagram, does it not suggest that that box contains some kind of switching mechanism?

 

ETA - What's the situation with safety features on that unit? This could be something as simple as a defective thermocouple, could it not?

The black box inside that fuse box in the photo looks like a common or garden relay, plugged into a socket. It should emit an audible click when working, on and off The contact terminals on that maybe dodgy too or the relay itself. A new relay can be bought at any motor factors or Halfords, but Chubby would need to take the old relay with him to compare it with new. They are not expensive. They can be tested quite easily with a couple of 12v leads and a bulb on wires or a multimeter.

[chubby]

Paul G2

 

My apologies . I certainly don t ignore anyone who offers me advice but i have failed to answer your question . I sincereley apologise .

 

The 8 pin connector is not the black box on the right of BSP s photo . I have no idea at all what it is . The 8 pin connector is a two part clip together harness . One side has female connectors , the other male . When clipped together it links the fusebox to the heater .

 

I need to go away & read the technical manual to ascertain which wires are for which internal part ( of the heater ) in order to test whether enough power ( volts , amp s , god knows ) AFTER the fusebox . IF ok then the power drop must be due to crap connections on the 8 pin connector . Thats if i ve understood SmileyPete correctly .

My current problem ( not a pun ! ) is im finally getting impatient . well ... thoroughly pissed off tell the truth , so im partakjng of a cuppa to calm down

before returning to this machine

 

Thanks for your thoughts and again , my apologies

 

cheers

[bizzard]

Paul G2

 

My apologies . I certainly don t ignore anyone who offers me advice but i have failed to answer your question . I sincereley apologise .

 

The 8 pin connector is not the black box on the right of BSP s photo . I have no idea at all what it is . The 8 pin connector is a two part clip together harness . One side has female connectors , the other male . When clipped together it links the fusebox to the heater .

 

I need to go away & read the technical manual to ascertain which wires are for which internal part ( of the heater ) in order to test whether enough power ( volts , amp s , god knows ) AFTER the fusebox . IF ok then the power drop must be due to crap connections on the 8 pin connector . Thats if i ve understood SmileyPete correctly .

My current problem ( not a pun ! ) is im finally getting impatient . well ... thoroughly pissed off tell the truth , so im partakjng of a cuppa to calm down

before returning to this machine

 

Thanks for your thoughts and again , my apologies

 

cheers

Chubby. I've just told you what it is Its a common or garden 12v relay a very common older vehicle type relay, and is probably the relay for the main on/off switching. They just push in. Just pull it up and out of that socket and check its contact prongs, probably 4 of them. It could be faulty, they often are.

[chubby]

Cheers Bizzard

 

i think i must have been typing as you replied as i posted two minutes after you . This relay thing . If its meant to click - it doesn t . The heater whirrs for 10 seconds and shuts off .

I m going to going and have a fiddle with this relay . I realise all this stuff is straightforward to you guys but im beginning to feel like im getting out of my depth with all this electrical stuff . I realise that getting in there and getting uour hands dirty , so to speak , is the only way to learn , but i m beginning to lose the faith .

i m off to look at this relay thing

every days a schoolday !!

 

cheers

[bottle]

Chubby

 

Stick with it, twice you have said, at different times, that you forced the 8 pin connector together hard an the Erbaspacher worked.

 

So, try that again and this time tie it together with a piece of string or similar, a cable tie would be perfect.

[Paul G2]

Paul G2

 

My apologies . I certainly don t ignore anyone who offers me advice but i have failed to answer your question . I sincereley apologise .

 

The 8 pin connector is not the black box on the right of BSP s photo . I have no idea at all what it is . The 8 pin connector is a two part clip together harness . One side has female connectors , the other male . When clipped together it links the fusebox to the heater .

 

I need to go away & read the technical manual to ascertain which wires are for which internal part ( of the heater ) in order to test whether enough power ( volts , amp s , god knows ) AFTER the fusebox . IF ok then the power drop must be due to crap connections on the 8 pin connector . Thats if i ve understood SmileyPete correctly .

My current problem ( not a pun ! ) is im finally getting impatient . well ... thoroughly pissed off tell the truth , so im partakjng of a cuppa to calm down

before returning to this machine

 

Thanks for your thoughts and again , my apologies

 

cheers

 

No problem.

 

[chubby]

Just checked it . What a doddle !! The pins are shiny and bright . As if fitted yesterday . Tried the heater . 10 seconds and dead . It certainly doesn t click though .

OK

 

When Smiley Pete says " test voltage at glowpin " are we saying

 

" find which wires feed the glowpin ( inside the 8 pin connector ) , connect multimeter probes to them , switch on at wall and check readings on the meter "

 

Cheers

[Paul G2]

Chubby

 

Stick with it, twice you have said, at different times, that you forced the 8 pin connector together hard an the Erbaspacher worked.

 

So, try that again and this time tie it together with a piece of string or similar, a cable tie would be perfect.

 

The connector would seem like a logical place to start, all things considered. However, those connectors make contact all along the length of the pins, not just at the ends. Pushing hard might help a little, but it is not a permanent solution.

 

That connector may not be the only problem, but it is one of them.

 

If the wire from the red fuse leads to the eight pin connector, I'd be tempted to find the pin for that wire and push it ever so slightly to one side, so that it pushes harder against the female receptacle and makes a better connection. Again, not a permanent solution but, if it works, it indicates what the problem is.

 

ETA I would also temporarily bypass the wall switch and see if that makes any difference.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Paul G2

[bottle]

.However, those connectors make contact all along the length of the pins, not just at the ends. Pushing hard might help a little, but it is not a permanent solution.

 

You would think so but not always the case

 

Agreed

 

Wish you well.

[chubby]

Cheers Paul

 

I ve put a multi meter on the female side of the 8 pin connector which comes from the fusebox . There are 6 wires entering the connector . The two thickest are red & brown . It is to these that i have connected the meter .

 

The reading is 14.3 v

I may be barking up the wrong tree but is this not telling me that after the fuse box there is a good voltage present ?

 

edit to add - cheers bottle . Typing at same time

Edited May 24, 2014 by chubby

[Paul G2]

Follow the wire leading from the red fuse. (In BSP's photo that wire is red.) Make sure that it has good connections all along its run.

[chubby]

Cheers Paul ,

 

So i ve done as you say . The red wire is the one that exits the fusebox and runs 12 inches or so and ends at the 8 pin connector . At the 8 pin connector it is " paired " with a brown cable . Both are quite thick wires . When i put the black multi meter probe to the brown & the red probe to the red cable it reads

12.8 now

 

cheers