Is my engine poorly - Blue smoke and low oil pressure

[LEO]

Hi, Meggers,

 

It sounds a bit crazy, but I have heard of it being done, why not try to disconnect the injector to the cylinder which has the 'dodgy' big end bearing and use the engine to move the boat where you want....

 

It is possible to shut off an injector on a Gardner and run it on one cylinder (converting a 2LW to a 1LW) less so why not yours?.

 

If it's any consolation we broke down in a big way in '89 at Day's Lock on the Thames and a lady and crew on a 30ft nb towed us to the Oxford canal, I pulled our 30 footer up to Thrupp and repaired it and we were back on holiday after a couple of days. She became a firm friend and had a superb mooring just above Hambleden Lock- she let us use it FOC for a month or so each summer for the next 15 years - until she died. She let her 'wet' boat house for a fortune during the Regatta.

 

L.

Edited May 11, 2014 by LEO

[Martin Megson]

Thanks Leo can't see anyway of switching off one injector, not sure which is the dodgy cylinder.

[ditchcrawler]

I dont know this company - just came across their website when I was looking for Lister parts :

 

Bryco are proud to have been associated with Petter and then Lister Petter for 40 years

 

http://www.bryco.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:lister-petter&catid=37:engines&Itemid=90

 

When equipment breaks down or operates inefficiently it is often faster and more economical to exchange the power unit with a new or Bryco rebuilt engine. New and replacement engines ranging from 1.5kW to 500kW are readily available and can be spec changed in-house to suit customers' individual applications. These engines can be fitted with low temperature starting aids, safety equipment for operation in hazardous environments and automatic shutdown for prolonged operation in remote areas.

 

To maintain, service and repair today's modern high speed industrial diesel engines requires a high level of technical expertise, the use of genuine parts and factory designed service tools. Without these three elements many apects of diesel engine work cannot be undertaken. As official diesel engines dealers, all Bryco personnel are fully product trained and only fit genuine parts.

 

Bryco's state of the art workshop facilities accommodate the repair of industrial diesel engines, rebuilt engine production and the maintenance and servicing of plant equipment. Six purpose-designed, fully equipped repair/assembly bays, an engine test shop with four dynamometers and a modern paint spray booth are all incorporated into our workshop design, allowing all aspects of diesel engine work to be undertaken.

I use to buy my engine oil from them.

[Naughty Cal]

Is £80 per hour a pretty standard charge nowadays?

 

It's what they charge here as well!

[Martin Megson]

Is £80 per hour a pretty standard charge nowadays?

It's what they charge here as well!

Really for a diesel fitter. I was expecting about £60.

 

I might be better buying a new engine and fitting it myself (with help from my mechanical friends).

Would really need to get back onto the canals where I have friends. I already have the offer of a tow up to Windsor. Just need to get the rest of the way.

[Naughty Cal]

Really for a diesel fitter. I was expecting about £60.

 

I might be better buying a new engine and fitting it myself (with help from my mechanical friends).

Would really need to get back onto the canals where I have friends. I already have the offer of a tow up to Windsor. Just need to get the rest of the way.

Unfortunately labour rates go up much the same as anything else. If you can find someone at £60 per hour good luck!

[john6767]

Is £80 per hour a pretty standard charge nowadays?

 

It's what they charge here as well!

Assuming it is 80 + VAT, that's about double what I have paid at what I would consider a relatively expensive marina. Edited May 11, 2014 by john6767

[Martin Megson]

Assuming it is 80 + VAT, that's about double what I have paid at what I would consider a relatively expensive marina.

 

In this case £80 inc VAT. I assume this is high as the marina has brought in a sub contractor who is no doubt charging his going rate and the marina is putting the mark up. Understandable as they are responsible for the work but not the most cost effective solution for me.

[bargemast]

I hope that you'll have better news tomorrow after your phonecalls, and wish you the best of luck.

 

Peter.

[RLWP]

PM sent

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Is £80 per hour a pretty standard charge nowadays?

 

It's what they charge here as well!

 

 

Assuming it is 80 + VAT, that's about double what I have paid at what I would consider a relatively expensive marina.

 

Last I heard the local marina based engineer here charged £50 + VAT per hour, and many considered that expensive.

 

It may have gone up a bit since, but £80 + VAT definitely sounds like "Thames pricing".

 

I can't remember the hourly rate for our local mobile engineer, but last time I used him, it seriously undercut the marina based guy.

[Martin Megson]

Not good news this morning

 

Chertsey Meads can't help as they're pontoon can't take a 55' boat so that avenue is closed.

 

So it looks like I'm down to 3 options:

Go ahead with the rebuild at Shepperton

Buy another engine any get Shepperton to fit it

Or get towed to Brentford where my friend can meet me and tow me back up the GU.

 

Oh and I've got my daughter's wedding on 7 Jun

Edited May 12, 2014 by Meggers

[LEO]

I would get a tow to Brentford and try to get a your friend to tow you up to Croxley - P&S Marine Services do a good job.

 

Are the marinas on the Thames charging you for staying there?.

 

Best of Luck.

 

L

 

PS Breast up rather than tow - it's easier.

[Martin Megson]

I would get a tow to Brentford and try to get a your friend to tow you up to Croxley - P&S Marine Services do a good job.

 

Are the marinas on the Thames charging you for staying there?.

 

Best of Luck.

 

L

 

PS Breast up rather than tow - it's easier.

Yes they are charging me. However getting a tow isn't easy.

 

Unless anyone on the forum is heading from Walton to Brentord and can give me a tow. As you say I would breast up rather than tow on the river.

I'm now have a possible solution from a forum member who can carry out the work at half the Thames labour rate. However, he would need cooperation of the marina and use of their crane to lift the engine. Obviously this could be done at any yard so getting on the GU would also help.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

 

Last I heard the local marina based engineer here charged £50 + VAT per hour, and many considered that expensive.

 

It may have gone up a bit since, but £80 + VAT definitely sounds like "Thames pricing".

 

I can't remember the hourly rate for our local mobile engineer, but last time I used him, it seriously undercut the marina based guy.

And seemingly East Midlands pricing!

 

They are all much the same round here.

[Martin Megson]

I promised an update. Having listened to all your very welcome advice and spoken to a few others I've decided that rebuilding the engine is the best option as long as I'm confident in the builder. The marina here don't know Listers. Luckily Richard of this form is a Lister expert and is collecting the engine tomorrow to take away and rebuild. It does mean I'm stuck in the Marina for a while longer but there are worse places to be stranded.

Again thanks for all the helpful advice. Especially the offer of a tow from CT.

[ditchcrawler]

I promised an update. Having listened to all your very welcome advice and spoken to a few others I've decided that rebuilding the engine is the best option as long as I'm confident in the builder. The marina here don't know Listers. Luckily Richard of this form is a Lister expert and is collecting the engine tomorrow to take away and rebuild. It does mean I'm stuck in the Marina for a while longer but there are worse places to be stranded.

Again thanks for all the helpful advice. Especially the offer of a tow from CT.

Probably the best result you could have got under the circumstances. At least you know you will get a good rebuild.

[Proper Job]

I'm sure Richard will do you proud and at a realistic price.

 

At least he has the skill, knowledge and equipment to be able to do proper engineering and make informed judgements if required - not just replace worn components with new

[Martin Megson]

And after 7 weeks the engine is rebuilt installed and running like new. Many thanks to Richard for a great job at a very reasonable price - I would highly recommend him for any engineering problem. For those interested one main crank journal was badly worn - undersize by 4mm hence the low oil pressure, knocking and smoke as that cylinder was not running due to lack if compression.

[RLWP]

And a bent pushrod, and a sticking valve...

 

I'm going to have to run a Thames pricing scale alongside the Midlands one, something like 'think of a number, then double it'

 

Thank you Martin,

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

Great to hear thats its back up and running.

 

As an owner of an LPWS4, I was very concerned at the start of this thread when Megers put the 'problem' down to being a few hours over on his oil change.

 

Can you give any reason behind the failure ?

Was it due to a few missed hours on the oil change ?

Was it operator induced ?

Was it metalurgical failure ?

 

Help me put my mind at rest and tell me how to avoid the same problem.

[MtB]

And could you outline the fix please?

 

4mm missing from a big end journal would have been a scrap crank 40 years ago when I used to mess about with engines. These days I understand they can be built up again by welding or metal spraying, but is a new crank perhaps cheaper?

 

And how did a worn big end and sticking valve result in a bent pushrod?

 

MtB

[Martin Megson]

Great to hear thats its back up and running.

 

As an owner of an LPWS4, I was very concerned at the start of this thread when Megers put the 'problem' down to being a few hours over on his oil change.

 

Can you give any reason behind the failure ?

Was it due to a few missed hours on the oil change ?

Was it operator induced ?

Was it metalurgical failure ?

 

Help me put my mind at rest and tell me how to avoid the same problem.

Having discussed it with Richard I believe this has been an unfortunate failure due to either a faulty journal or more likely a blockage in the oil supply to this one journal. Given that this one journal was worn to a depth of 4mm while the remaining 3 journals were within original spec showing virtually no wear. If it was due to an overdue oil change I would have expected to see significant wear throughout the engine.

Having said all that I'm not an engineer and I'm sure Richard will add his far more informed opinion.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Meggers

[RLWP]

It's not easy to tell after the crank failed, had been removed and cleaned. I suspect that the crank journal on number three cylinder had failed because of reduced/no oil supply.

 

On an LPWS and similar engines in the family, all the oil passes from the pump, through a series of galleries cast into the crankcase door and then through short drillings in the block. One thing I noticed with this engine was most of the gaskets had been stuck in place with something. They were a right sod nuisance to scrape off. I suspect that a gob/lump/some of this adhesive/sealant got out of the cover and into the oilway.

 

Having said that, the LPW series are an engine I would be careful to stick to the correct oil on and try not to miss an oil change by too many hours

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

Many thanks - and well done (I hope I never need you - meant in the nicest way)