any mooring tips?

[nicknorman]

Personally amazed at the number of people who are recommending a clove hitch. It is a rubbish knot, one with the ability both to jam, and to slip. That takes some rubbishness.

 

A boatman's hitch (AKA various other names) is much better, doesn't jam, and can be done and undone under tension, which is rather important on mooring lines at certain times.

 

Also please don't end up being one of these people: "the lock only takes 15 minutes for the 2 boats ahead of me to use it, so I'll just stand here and hold the centre rope instead of tying a knot to the conveniently-placed bollard, because I'm so fearful of having to tie a knot that will hold the boat and actually I don't have anything better to do than be a statue for 15 mins, although personally I am desparate for the loo, or would like to go and talk to the others at the lock who are all having a laugh about something."

 

I've no doubt that in theory you are right about the clove hitch, but for all practical purposes on the canals it is fine. It must be, because it's the only knot I have used for the past 45 years and it's never been a problem. I am certainly not the type of person to stand holding the centre line for hours - I am too lazy, and the only time you will find us standing holding a rope is when there is nothing to tie on to.

 

Of course you can bamboozle newbies like TJ with all sorts of fancy knots, but ultimately they are an unnecessary complication especially for someone "just learning the ropes"!

 

Just had a look at scruddy's vid, sorry but it looks like a right load of old knitting to me! I wouldn't like to have to share a bollard with someone doing that! On the subject of undoing, one should remember that ease of undoing is not necessarily a good thing. Why make it easy for the pranksters?

Edited March 31, 2014 by nicknorman

[Paul C]

Why make it easy for the pranksters?

 

.....because if they couldn't undo it, they'll probably get frustrated and cut it?

 

But, yes, its a consideration and one of the only I've heard, with any validity.

 

If you've used it for 45yrs and its worked, I'll not try to change your mind. Its up to the original poster to read up on the various posts of various contributors and decide what works best for him - or as previously suggested, get out on the canals and try it out for real.

[furnessvale]

Just had a look at scruddy's vid, sorry but it looks like a right load of old knitting to me! I wouldn't like to have to share a bollard with someone doing that! On the subject of undoing, one should remember that ease of undoing is not necessarily a good thing. Why make it easy for the pranksters?

It IS a right load of old knitting and nothing like a proper boatman's hitch!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[David Schweizer]

It IS a right load of old knitting and nothing like a proper boatman's hitch!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Agreed, nothing like the boatman's hitch I was taught by an ex working boatman, I would not trust it overnight on water that moved, it looks to easy for it to undo itself.

[nb Innisfree]

Watermans hitch is easier than the posted video, just stand upright over the post and twirl the line round and round several times then do a hitch as shown, and then a couple more twirls in the opposite direction followed by final hitch. Its the amount of turns that provide the friction needed to prevent slip and it serves to use up spare line.

[nb Innisfree]

Rolling hitch is basically a clove hitch with a couple more turns before finishing, allows the load to come from the side which an ordinary clove hitch won't do. Needs to be tied one way for right pull and mirror image for left pull. Tying for right pull is insinctive for me but being right handed I have to stop and think for left pull (unless I can go round and tie it from the other side!)

[nicknorman]

Watermans hitch is easier than the posted video, just stand upright over the post and twirl the line round and round several times then do a hitch as shown, and then a couple more twirls in the opposite direction followed by final hitch. Its the amount of turns that provide the friction needed to prevent slip and it serves to use up spare line.

Lots of twists and twirls! Here is a clove hitch on Telemachus' stern dolly. Never known to come undone! Simples!

 

Untitled by nick.norman, on Flickr

 

Untitled by nick.norman, on Flickr

 

Note the absence of knitting!

[nb Innisfree]

Alright Nick we've got the message, long live the clove hitch!

 

Watermans hitch in my example deals with fastening to shore bollards/trees etc. Can never tighten up and serves the dual purpose of using up spare line.

[nicknorman]

Alright Nick we've got the message, long live the clove hitch!

Watermans hitch in my example deals with fastening to shore bollards/trees etc. Can never tighten up and serves the dual purpose of using up spare line.

Oh good!

 

Anyway, I admit that I can't tie a clove hitch to something I can't drop the loops over (ie a tree, but not a bollard) - it can of course be done just not by me! However I believe one should not tie up to trees because the rope tends to cut through the bark all round the trunk, that being the main way water etc gets up the tree. Consequently the tree will die, not whilst you are tied up to it, but months or years later.

[nb Innisfree]

Oh good!

 

Anyway, I admit that I can't tie a clove hitch to something I can't drop the loops over (ie a tree, but not a bollard) - it can of course be done just not by me! However I believe one should not tie up to trees because the rope tends to cut through the bark all round the trunk, that being the main way water etc gets up the tree. Consequently the tree will die, not whilst you are tied up to it, but months or years later.

Ah but a watermans hitch carefully made won't harm the tree.

Of course the fact is no one knot or hitch can serve all situations.

[Rod a mod from Tod]

Lots of twists and twirls! Here is a clove hitch on Telemachus' stern dolly. Never known to come undone! Simples!

 

Untitled by nick.norman, on Flickr

 

Untitled by nick.norman, on Flickr

 

Note the absence of knitting!

 

Does that particular knot not wear paint off the dolly. I have never seen dolly's in such pristine condition with only minor chaffing to be seen. Whenever i re-paint mine, which is about as often as i polish my mushroom vents, its all off again in a few days.

[Neil2]

Greenie for you Neil!

 

would agree that those three knots and the OXO (have even done a OXXO before now but that is OTT!) are the three most practical and useful knots to learn and practice....as well as how to coil a rope correctly !

 

As someone else mentioned it is worth booking you self on to a RYA inland Waterway Helmsman's course. As well as getting the hands-on experience of 'boat driving' you will also have the opportunity to ask questions of an experienced boater face to face.

Totally agree. I'm RYA trained, though I haven't done the Inland Waterways course I imagine a lot of the basics are the same.

 

I know it is impractical but I would make it compulsory, certainly for river navigating.

 

With you on the rope coiling as well, once you get into the habit of coiling and securing ropes/lines correctly you can't bear to see ropes strung all over the place.

[Dharl]

yep hate seeing a pile of rope that someone has dumped on their deck..or even worse someone making a pretty 'cheese' out of the rope. A good way for it to get tangled up when you need to really pass it ashore in a hurry! Growing up in small sailing boats and working deep sea does give me a certain perspective on ropework...not always shared with others of the narrow boat fraternity or even shared by my crew all the time!

Totally agree. I'm RYA trained, though I haven't done the Inland Waterways course I imagine a lot of the basics are the same.

 

I know it is impractical but I would make it compulsory, certainly for river navigating.

 

 

 

must admit that I am in two minds about the compulsory RYA training. I hold professional 'tickets' which I need for my profession and also a Commercially Endorsed Of YM, however there is a big debate in the yachting world if they should be compulsory or note.

 

However as a comparison between the boating hobby and also aviation as a hobby, in boating no formal training is required (with most vessels and areas of operation) however in the world of General Aviation even the smallest aircraft (inc hang gliders) the pilot needs to under go a certain level of training before they are left alone! It is a general statement but adding it to the mix!

[nicknorman]

Does that particular knot not wear paint off the dolly. I have never seen dolly's in such pristine condition with only minor chaffing to be seen. Whenever i re-paint mine, which is about as often as i polish my mushroom vents, its all off again in a few days.

That dolly was painted 3 years ago. Mind you it was in 2-pac so perhaps that makes a difference?

[Guest]

Neil2, on 31 Mar 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Totally agree. I'm RYA trained, though I haven't done the Inland Waterways course I imagine a lot of the basics are the same.

 

I know it is impractical but I would make it compulsory, certainly for river navigating.

 

With you on the rope coiling as well, once you get into the habit of coiling and securing ropes/lines correctly you can't bear to see ropes strung all over the place.

 

To be honest I think that is over kill - most of the rivers we boat on are not really that much different from the canals we boat on and often just as benign...

 

You also then end up with the anomalous situation that exists on parts of the continent where owners of certain boats are compelled to have formal certified training but anybody just hiring a boat does not.

nicknorman, on 31 Mar 2014 - 1:05 PM, said:

That dolly was painted 3 years ago. Mind you it was in 2-pac so perhaps that makes a difference?

 

I was more shocked to see the rust spot at the base - totally letting the side down there......

[nicknorman]

 

I was more shocked to see the rust spot at the base - totally letting the side down there......

OMG you are right. I have now phoned Steve to order a new boat.

 

 

Edit: I just touched the "rust spot" with my finger and in fact it is a spec of mud, now disappeared to leave shiny paint underneath. Order cancelled.

[furnessvale]

Lots of twists and twirls! Here is a clove hitch on Telemachus' stern dolly. Never known to come undone! Simples!

 

 

Yes, again nothing like a boatmans hitch as used by professional boatmen for generations.

 

Clove hitch, A good rainy night, Lots of tugging from the wind pulling at the boat and it will stick tight.

 

Each to his own.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Dharl]

Practiced using a form of the waterman's hitch whilst away recently, 4 round turns on a bit / mooring pin and then take a bite of rope under the standing part and dropped on to the mooring bit / pin.

 

IS this more like the correct way George?

[nicknorman]

 

Clove hitch, A good rainy night, Lots of tugging from the wind pulling at the boat and it will stick tight.

 

Each to his own.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

So they say, but I have never had any hint of a problem releasing a clove hitch following a windy rainy night, or even several weeks thus tied up at the marina. Therefore I maintain that in practical terms it is not an issue. Each to their own as you say, but I am just trying to keep it simple for the new guy.

[furnessvale]

Practiced using a form of the waterman's hitch whilst away recently, 4 round turns on a bit / mooring pin and then take a bite of rope under the standing part and dropped on to the mooring bit / pin.

 

IS this more like the correct way George?

No, still too many round turns. I will try to find a suitable video but meanwhile I will try a verbal description.

 

1. Pass standing line round back of pin, bring free end under standing line.

 

2. Pass free end over standing line then round back of pin.

 

3. Pass free end under standing line, back over standing line and round back of pin.

 

4. Done.

 

Sounds complicated but in practice it is done in two flicks of the wrist. If using bites to effect the loops over the pin it is important not to twist the bite thus wrongly locking the free end which should remain on top.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Edited March 31, 2014 by furnessvale

[Dharl]

Thanks George,

 

will give that a go!

[furnessvale]

Thanks George,

 

will give that a go!

I have failed in my search for a video. Everyone seems to apply unnecessary round turns.

 

The RYA handbook has an illustration which, if you leave out the round turns and go straight into the hitches, IS a true boatmans hitch.

 

Perhaps people are applying round turns because of the slipperiness of modern sheathed rope. I have never had a problem using this knot with cable laid rope. I have had a problem with the green Fibreway pulling rope which is the slippiest thing known to man. I find the only way to hold that rope is an additional 2 or 3 half hitches.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Richard10002]

Ah but a watermans hitch carefully made won't harm the tree.Of course the fact is no one knot or hitch can serve all situations.

Not sure how you do a watermans hitch around a tree.... Given that you need to drop the loops over the top of the post or bollard to make it work as easily as it does?

 

Round turn and two half hitches round a tree, or a bowline if making fast at the boat end.

Not sure how you do a watermans hitch around a tree.... Given that you need to drop the loops over the top of the post or bollard to make it work as easily as it does?

Round turn and two half hitches round a tree, or a bowline if making fast at the boat end.

George seems to have it covered - ill give it a go.

[howardang]

I have failed in my search for a video. Everyone seems to apply unnecessary round turns.

 

The RYA handbook has an illustration which, if you leave out the round turns and go straight into the hitches, IS a true boatmans hitch.

 

Perhaps people are applying round turns because of the slipperiness of modern sheathed rope. I have never had a problem using this knot with cable laid rope. I have had a problem with the green Fibreway pulling rope which is the slippiest thing known to man. I find the only way to hold that rope is an additional 2 or 3 half hitches.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

This video explains a watermans/lightermans hitch quite clearly. I also know it as a tugmans hitch. it has the benefit of being able to let go while under tension, unlike a clove hitch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDJZnvQ5DGY

 

Howard

[phil5]

Hi Phil how long have you been in sawley? Still negotiating with the mooring office at sawley at mo. They wanted £3015 pa for residential mooring. And that's with a 10% discount lol. Don't mind paying £280 a month. See what they say. Cause I like the environment there.

 

I moved here at the beginning of October, so just done 6 months ! It is a very nice environment - very friendly & the facilities very clean & well-maintained. Surely at £3k that's only £250 a month so under your £280 !