dog bites

[Phil Ambrose]

Can you ever be really sure that you have "rehab'd" a biter? I'm not sure. My parents always had dogs from pups which were fine and could be trained ok. My Aunt took on a dog which had to be rehomed for being jealous of a new baby (which it did bite) when it thought IT was the baby - and after being OK for some months it began to get jealous of, and nip, anyone and everyone who seemed to be fond of or loved by my Aunt. It was re- re - homed eventually and I don't think that was a good plan. Unless it went to a sort of hermit where the poor dog felt totally secure.

 

And it had a nasty habit - she used to pick it up if she thought it was about to "nip" - of directing a stream if pee straight at the person it was about to bite!

Dog lover that I am I'm sorry to say I rather tend to agree, in my experience biting can lie dormant sadly to rear its head at some point in the future.

Phil

[station tug]

Dog lover that I am I'm sorry to say I rather tend to agree, in my experience biting can lie dormant sadly to rear its head at some point in the future.

Phil

iv trained many truly aggressive dogs and they can fairly easily be trained not to bite or show aggression, BUT they need to be kept at the rank in the pack the problems restart because the owners are not pack leaders and this starts the dog trying to find its place in the pack again in many years of training highly driven dogs iv only come accross two or three bad dogs

[Phil Ambrose]

iv trained many truly aggressive dogs and they can fairly easily be trained not to bite or show aggression, BUT they need to be kept at the rank in the pack the problems restart because the owners are not pack leaders and this starts the dog trying to find its place in the pack again in many years of training highly driven dogs iv only come accross two or three bad dogs

Would agree with your comments but as fosterers the dogs we had were only transient, mostly they were only with us for weeks rather than months and I think you are quite right that rarely there are bad dogs (owners usually at fault) but sadly as we only had them a short while we were rather limited as to what we could achieve.

Phil

[station tug]

Would agree with your comments but as fosterers the dogs we had were only transient, mostly they were only with us for weeks rather than months and I think you are quite right that rarely there are bad dogs (owners usually at fault) but sadly as we only had them a short while we were rather limited as to what we could achieve.

Phil

phil it wouldnt matter how long you had the dogs mate, you do all the ground work hand the dog back and in weeks the dogs back to how it was..people humanise animals and sadly dogs are dogs and live by a fairly simple set of rules.start treating them like people and the problems begin..all four of my dogs are trained to bite and do there job very well.there default is to be calm and not aggressive in any way untill commanded to be aggressive

[Phil Ambrose]

phil it wouldnt matter how long you had the dogs mate, you do all the ground work hand the dog back and in weeks the dogs back to how it was..people humanise animals and sadly dogs are dogs and live by a fairly simple set of rules.start treating them like people and the problems begin..all four of my dogs are trained to bite and do there job very well.there default is to be calm and not aggressive in any way untill commanded to be aggressive

Again on reflection I must agree with you.

Phil

[Ten]

I am a dog lover too but I agree with everyone else; you have to report it! If a dog owner decides to walk their dog unleashed, they are to be held responsible for the dog's actions. There are many brainless and careless pet owners and your health is being put at risk here. Outrageous.

[Barry]

iv trained many truly aggressive dogs and they can fairly easily be trained not to bite or show aggression, BUT they need to be kept at the rank in the pack the problems restart because the owners are not pack leaders and this starts the dog trying to find its place in the pack again in many years of training highly driven dogs iv only come accross two or three bad dogs

 

Interesting that you say that about the dog needing to know its place.

 

I know a dog who was aggressive towards me from the moment we met. I'm talking about constant in your face barking, hackles raised, snarling, showing of teeth, and on two occasions it ran at me and touched my hand with its teeth.

 

I couldn't even begin to establish any sort of relationship with it because it made so much noise that it couldn't hear me - not that it wanted to.

 

I asked my brother's advice, who is brilliant with dogs, especially troubled ones. He advised using a water spray around its head when it barked.

 

It worked superbly. within 24 hours I could talk to him. Talking to him calmly led to me being able to pat and stroke him. Eventually I was able to put him on a lead, walk him to heel (which he is brilliant at) to some open ground where I was able to play fetch the ball with him and teach him "leave". It got to the stage where If he did bark he would respond to "quiet" and would come voluntarily to me for a pat and a stroke as part of the welcome procedure.

 

My brother also suggested that when I was taking him anywhere, if we came to a door, gate, narrow opening, I should make him wait until I had gone through first, thus teaching him that my place in the pack was higher than his

 

Others in the house remarked that within a week he had become much less anxious, noisy, and aggressive. He was rapidly becoming a much calmer dog.

 

 

 

Talking about him with other experienced dog owners we wondered if he saw his owner as the "alpha female" and himself as the "alpha male". teaching him to obey me and making him follow me through doors etc put him in a lower rank in "the pack". Consequently he didn't have the responsibility any more of being the boss and thus needing to keep anybody else in their place. So less anxiety, aggression, and much more calmness.

 

I was very worried about him at first but actually he's a grand dog and one I would take on as my own.

 

He still wears a muzzle though when he's out and there are people and dogs he doesn't know about

[station tug]

 

Interesting that you say that about the dog needing to know its place.

 

I know a dog who was aggressive towards me from the moment we met. I'm talking about constant in your face barking, hackles raised, snarling, showing of teeth, and on two occasions it ran at me and touched my hand with its teeth.

 

I couldn't even begin to establish any sort of relationship with it because it made so much noise that it couldn't hear me - not that it wanted to.

 

I asked my brother's advice, who is brilliant with dogs, especially troubled ones. He advised using a water spray around its head when it barked.

 

It worked superbly. within 24 hours I could talk to him. Talking to him calmly led to me being able to pat and stroke him. Eventually I was able to put him on a lead, walk him to heel (which he is brilliant at) to some open ground where I was able to play fetch the ball with him and teach him "leave". It got to the stage where If he did bark he would respond to "quiet" and would come voluntarily to me for a pat and a stroke as part of the welcome procedure.

 

My brother also suggested that when I was taking him anywhere, if we came to a door, gate, narrow opening, I should make him wait until I had gone through first, thus teaching him that my place in the pack was higher than his

 

Others in the house remarked that within a week he had become much less anxious, noisy, and aggressive. He was rapidly becoming a much calmer dog.

 

 

 

Talking about him with other experienced dog owners we wondered if he saw his owner as the "alpha female" and himself as the "alpha male". teaching him to obey me and making him follow me through doors etc put him in a lower rank in "the pack". Consequently he didn't have the responsibility any more of being the boss and thus needing to keep anybody else in their place. So less anxiety, aggression, and much more calmness.

 

I was very worried about him at first but actually he's a grand dog and one I would take on as my own.

 

He still wears a muzzle though when he's out and there are people and dogs he doesn't know about

the dog was scared of you.......showing teeth..hackles up..lots of noise is a weak dog thats afraid....a confident dog would of not seen you as a threat and if it was a confident dog showing you your place in the pack it would of bitten you calmly so you knew you were beneath the dog....being a pack leader is very subtle its not about spraying water choke chains etc etc...a dog picks up on facial expression far more than spoke language...the biggest problem is that people choose a dog for what it looks like not for its temperament...the kennal club are doing a great job of breeding dogs to be harth rugs so they fit in with peoples lives rather than keeping the breed as it was meant to be.....mali's are a prime example...amazing working dogs that make awful pets in the wrong hands...so much so iv spayed my working bitch so i cant be party to breading the next must have dangerous breed...

[Barry]

the dog was scared of you.......showing teeth..hackles up..lots of noise is a weak dog thats afraid....a confident dog would of not seen you as a threat and if it was a confident dog showing you your place in the pack it would of bitten you calmly so you knew you were beneath the dog....That's very interesting. and ties in with what is known about him. He is a very very anxious dog. When apart from his owner he displays a great deal of separation anxiety. being a pack leader is very subtle its not about spraying water choke chains etc etc In the work I've done with him a choke chain has not been used - just an ordinary collar and lead. The water spray was not a dominance thing - it was just about taking him by surprise so he had something to think about instead of barking, giving me a chance to talk to him ...a dog picks up on facial expression far more than spoke language...I wonder if a dog picks up on body language as well as facial expression. I've had at least one other dog, laid on the tow path beside it's owner's boat who, when it saw me stood up, dropped its head low, snarled and growled in a very menacing way. I wondered then if it was something about me that dogs don't like.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Bazza2

[station tug]

 

the dog was scared of you.......showing teeth..hackles up..lots of noise is a weak dog thats afraid....a confident dog would of not seen you as a threat and if it was a confident dog showing you your place in the pack it would of bitten you calmly so you knew you were beneath the dog....That's very interesting. and ties in with what is known about him. He is a very very anxious dog. When apart from his owner he displays a great deal of separation anxiety. being a pack leader is very subtle its not about spraying water choke chains etc etc In the work I've done with him a choke chain has not been used - just an ordinary collar and lead. The water spray was not a dominance thing - it was just about taking him by surprise so he had something to think about instead of barking, giving me a chance to talk to him ...a dog picks up on facial expression far more than spoke language...I wonder if a dog picks up on body language as well as facial expression. I've had at least one other dog, laid on the tow path beside it's owner's boat who, when it saw me stood up, dropped its head low, snarled and growled in a very menacing way. I wondered then if it was something about me that dogs don't like.

 

from what your saying it will be because you are a dominant person maybe without realising it??yes its not just facial expression body language too...its one of my pet hates people leaving there dogs loose next to there boats unsupervised.....dogs are living things not machines and they dont always play by our rules...the favourite one is "hes never bitten before".......any dog should never be left unadended in a public place...

[bizzard]

And above all according to a Dachshund-Mastiff cross which had a quiet word in my ear after I attempted to steel its bone in a moment of terrible hunger, I only wanted to make soup with it and I would have offered it some too. This dog was an embarrassed and angry kind of dog, caused I suppose by its strange and macabre looks. Its legs were all mixed up and of differing lengths. O/S/F one was a short Dachshunds hind leg, N/S/F a Mastiffs fore leg, O/S/R was a Mastiffs hind leg and on its N/S/R a Dachshunds fore leg. As you can imagine this dog walked along in a very wonky manner and was the laughing stock of all the local dogs.

Anyway the handy bit of advice this dog whispered in my ear was to never ever smile at a strange dog or any dog unless you really know it. Its the teeth you see, showing your gnashers when smiling at a dog can be the signal for it to attack and bite you, why? cos it thinks your snarling at it and about to attack and intends to get in first in self defence.

So if you happen to have been bestowed by nature with a permanent teethy grin, be careful. If you happen to have whopping great goofy teeth keep them covered up when out of doors by wearing a full face helmet, a muffler or keep your hand over your mouth as if your yawning all the time, just in case you come face to face with a strange hound spoiling for a fight.

[Phil Ambrose]

Hey Biz what about another wheeze!

Phil

[station tug]

And above all according to a Dachshund-Mastiff cross which had a quiet word in my ear after I attempted to steel its bone in a moment of terrible hunger, I only wanted to make soup with it and I would have offered it some too. This dog was an embarrassed and angry kind of dog, caused I suppose by its strange and macabre looks. Its legs were all mixed up and of differing lengths. O/S/F one was a short Dachshunds hind leg, N/S/F a Mastiffs fore leg, O/S/R was a Mastiffs hind leg and on its N/S/R a Dachshunds fore leg. As you can imagine this dog walked along in a very wonky manner and was the laughing stock of all the local dogs.

Anyway the handy bit of advice this dog whispered in my ear was to never ever smile at a strange dog or any dog unless you really know it. Its the teeth you see, showing your gnashers when smiling at a dog can be the signal for it to attack and bite you, why? cos it thinks your snarling at it and about to attack and intends to get in first in self defence.

So if you happen to have been bestowed by nature with a permanent teethy grin, be careful. If you happen to have whopping great goofy teeth keep them covered up when out of doors by wearing a full face helmet, a muffler or keep your hand over your mouth as if your yawning all the time, just in case you come face to face with a strange hound spoiling for a fight.

for god sake have a greenie on me .................iv never known such an upside down backwards way of stating the facts...you always manage to bring a smile to my face........

[BruceinSanity]

When approaching a dog that looks uneasy or about whom you are uneasy, try not to stare at it. Locking gaze with it tells the dog that you are planning to attack. Looking to one side with occasional glances at it is much less threatening.

[junior]

....mali's are a prime example...amazing working dogs that make awful pets in the wrong hands...so much so iv spayed my working bitch so i cant be party to breading the next must have dangerous breed...

I agree with everything you've said in this thread apart from that last comment. We have several Mali's at work and when not 'working' are some of the most loving dogs I've come across. Yes they need to be managed and wouldn't make a great pet for the average household, but to label them the next dangerous breed is a bit wide of the mark.

[Pykebird]

In my experience it is often the owners who are dangerous, not the dogs. They are too often responsible for putting the dogs in stupid situations where the only thing left for them to do is to bite. Often the dog has be "warning" someone of the bad situation for a while, but people just don't see it.

For the record, my large boy, was on his way to be put down at 6 months due to aggression, before we intervened.

It has been a LONG uphill struggle but I now have a happy and lovable dog, 7 years later. I would do it again, but am aware that I could never re home him(not that I want to)!!

[Nightwatch]

We are in a similar situation with 'George the Staffie'.

 

Rescued within days off making room in the compound, when we first got him he was ruffian. No idea how to behave. Showed loads of aggression to other dogs, most of the time, and would run off given half the chance.

 

Reading this thread has confirmed my own thoughts. His 'aggression' is apprehension and insecurity of other dogs and if we reassure him when approaching other dogs he is so much more relaxed. He has never ever attacked a human. I fact he is quite fantastic with humans and especially children. Though we wouldn't 100% trust him of course. I take him, I follow him, to the pub and he is kept on his lead at all times, and watched. Often he ends up with children stroking him and playing with him. Once one little girl was poking his nose and rearranging his ears, I suggested she stop, but didn't, George moaned a little, more of a grunt and the little girl went away. Her mum couldn't give a hoot when I asked her to keep an eye on her little love.

 

All in all, we are getting there but more work to be done.

 

I was, two or more years ago, an owner that said and did all the incorrect things when our dog at the time went to meet people on the tow path. George the Staffie has educated us unknowingly.

 

Martyn.

[station tug]

I agree with everything you've said in this thread apart from that last comment. We have several Mali's at work and when not 'working' are some of the most loving dogs I've come across. Yes they need to be managed and wouldn't make a great pet for the average household, but to label them the next dangerous breed is a bit wide of the mark.

they are becoming popular with the scum bags...train a mali in defence and youve got a dangerous dog.....mark my words two or three years they will be on the DD list.......have a look at all the dog dealing sites and read the adverts.......

 

if your in the trade and know the breed....i own a knpv bitch called "punk"

[Jerra]

when not 'working' are some of the most loving dogs I've come across.

As I am sure many of you know I have a "thing" about dogs. However the one and only dog I have close contact with and trust implicitly is a pet mali (assuming by mali you mean a malinois).

[Nightwatch]

Just googled malinois and they are very similar to Alsatians. Aren't they? I say Alsatians and not GSD as they are of a slimmer build. Do they suffer from the same reputation that Alsatians had forty odd years or so ago?

 

I was brought up with these dogs and they were good guard dogs,intelligent and very loyal.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Nightwatch

[station tug]

Just googled malinois and they are very similar to Alsatians. Aren't they? I say Alsatians and not GSD as they are of a slimmer build. Do they suffer from the same reputation that Alsatians had fourth odd years or so ago?

 

I was brought up with these dogs and they were good guard dogs,intelligent and very loyal.

german shepherds are alsations the breed comes from alsas...the name was changed in the war as "german shepherd" wasnt a popular name...malinois are nothing like gsd temperment.....they are much much sharper,more athletic higher drive...just like a working collie with a pit bull bite.yes shock horror malis have pitbull in them not widely spoken about it was introduced in the 80's on the continent to increase drive,bite strength and stamina....for a number of years in this country the low drive weak nerved stuff has been bred for show pet market (blame the kennal club and do gooders) malinois were bred as a protection patrol breed and thats how they should stay....the true breed standard and temperment will be lost just like 99% of gsd's...im not saying mali's arent loyal loving dogs they are,,they are a high drive working dog....

 

 

As I am sure many of you know I have a "thing" about dogs. However the one and only dog I have close contact with and trust implicitly is a pet mali (assuming by mali you mean a malinois).

[Nightwatch]

Interesting. Hence Junior have use of them in the line of work he's in.

 

Martyn