Insurance on Sea Crossings

[msj1s]

Hi all,

I'm a new member on here and decided it was time I got involved.

Whilst not new to boating I don't own a boat, I normally just do extended hire cruising as and when.

 

But anyway, I wanted some advice, the current route I have planned takes in the The Wash between Wisbech and Boston Sluice.

The owners insurers are feeling twitchy about covering the boat.

I was wondering, do any of you fine people out there know of any insurers that would cover a boat just for that section of the journey?

ie Dog-in-a-doublet Lock to Boston Sluice?

 

Or alternatively, if anyone has made the crossing, how did you persuade your insurers to give you cover?

 

Any helpful tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Matt

[Naughty Cal]

They will usually insist on a pilot for crossing like that in a narrowboat.

 

I'm sure a forum member did the crossing recently so they may be able to help further.

[Naughty Cal]

They will usually insist on a pilot for crossing like that in a narrowboat.

 

I'm sure a forum member did the crossing recently so they may be able to help further.

[msj1s]

They will usually insist on a pilot for crossing like that in a narrowboat.

 

I'm sure a forum member did the crossing recently so they may be able to help further.

 

Yes that's right,

I have approached Daryl Hill, a well documented Pilot that has done the crossing and he is happy to do it.

I have navigation lights and all the usual requirements of taping up etc, but it's the insurers that are putting a spanner in the works.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Yes that's right,

I have approached Daryl Hill, a well documented Pilot that has done the crossing and he is happy to do it.

I have navigation lights and all the usual requirements of taping up etc, but it's the insurers that are putting a spanner in the works.

Do you blame them?

 

We have crossed the Wash many times in our boat designed for it and I can honestly say that I wouldnt attempt it in a narrowboat. We have set off in light winds and brilliant blue skies only to hit fog and rough weather out there. It isnt a place for the faint hearted!!

[Arthur Brown]

In a seaworthy boat with good nav and radio and maybe radar it's an easy run for the local pilot. In a hire boat that you are not totally familiar with and with no electronics and charts it's suicidal. I'll assume that you come between those extremes but it's probably uninsurable.

 

The insurable options for you could include finding a hire company each side of the Wash and getting a lift by cab from one to the other

[ditchcrawler]

In a seaworthy boat with good nav and radio and maybe radar it's an easy run for the local pilot. In a hire boat that you are not totally familiar with and with no electronics and charts it's suicidal. I'll assume that you come between those extremes but it's probably uninsurable.

 

The insurable options for you could include finding a hire company each side of the Wash and getting a lift by cab from one to the other

But is it a hire boat, or even a Narrowboat?

[The Pipe]

I cannot see any hire company allowing this run in a narrowboat, no matter what kind of insurance you think you can get to cover the trip.

Why should they risk there investment on a voyage that most private owners would be reluctant to take.

[blackrose]

Or alternatively, if anyone has made the crossing, how did you persuade your insurers to give you cover?

 

I think there are several forum members who have done this crossing. Most insurance policies for inland waterways craft will extend cover for tidal passages - some with the additional requirement of a qualified pilot. However, I may be wrong but I don't think there are many forum members who have done this particular crossing in a hire boat. Before you even get to the problem of insurance, I can't see a hire company agreeing to it in the first place.

Edited November 7, 2013 by blackrose

[GUMPY]

Depends on the insurer mine covers NB for tidal access between inland waterways, someone else with the same policy asked if it would cover Humber to the Wash and was told it would provided he notified them.

I have done Thames>Medway, Medway>Crouch, Crouch>Thames all without extra premium and needing no notification, however I did notify them.

[Naughty Cal]

Depends on the insurer mine covers NB for tidal access between inland waterways, someone else with the same policy asked if it would cover Humber to the Wash and was told it would provided he notified them.

I have done Thames>Medway, Medway>Crouch, Crouch>Thames all without extra premium and needing no notification, however I did notify them.

I doubt most policies covering tidal waterways will cover either the Humber or the Wash. They are a different category of waterway. Our old tidal policy was extended to include the Humber up to Hull but we had to notify them to go any further or into the Wash.

 

I doubt most insurers would ordinarily cover a narrowboats for these waterways for good reason. They are not designed for these open waters.

[Sue]

We crossed the Wash early this year and I had no problem at all with my Insurance Company covering me (Nautical). I went across with two other boats and Daryl Hill on one of the other boats which I told the Insurance Company about along with as much information as I could think about.

 

Daryl is not officially a Pilot, he is a 'Wash Guide' but perfectly acceptable.

 

Mo has done an excellent guide if anyone is thinking of doing the trip with a lot of information towards the end of what is required including checking in with your insurance company.

[KJT]

We crossed the Wash early this year and I had no problem at all with my Insurance Company covering me (Nautical). I went across with two other boats and Daryl Hill on one of the other boats which I told the Insurance Company about along with as much information as I could think about.

 

Daryl is not officially a Pilot, he is a 'Wash Guide' but perfectly acceptable.

 

Mo has done an excellent guide if anyone is thinking of doing the trip with a lot of information towards the end of what is required including checking in with your insurance company.

Very interesting post, thanks. Especially the link to Mo's blog on the crossing as we are planning to do the same in the not too distant future.

 

Ken

[dave moore]

Hi all

 

I've had many years experience around canals and narrowboats, some of which has involved river work, but, and it's only a personal view,I can't understand why folk want to put such a totally unsuited craft on to tidal water. I'm aware that those that do so take extra precautions and have sea going experience that I lack, but it's not a prospect I'd relish without a pilot or as part of a convoy, certainly not with a hire boat with which I was unfamiliar. I can't see any insurance company even sniffing at that one!

 

Years ago, on a Mediterranean sailing holiday, 4 of us, all novices, hit rough weather on a late afternoon open sea crossing. Beyond the limit of our basic training, it was frightening and gave me a healthy respect for the power that wind and wave can have.

 

I suppose I'm waiting for the day when a narrowboat is caught out and lost.....then the rest of us will suffer extra legislation as the authorities respond. Horses for courses, I say!!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Naughty Cal]

We crossed the Wash early this year and I had no problem at all with my Insurance Company covering me (Nautical). I went across with two other boats and Daryl Hill on one of the other boats which I told the Insurance Company about along with as much information as I could think about.

 

Daryl is not officially a Pilot, he is a 'Wash Guide' but perfectly acceptable.

 

Mo has done an excellent guide if anyone is thinking of doing the trip with a lot of information towards the end of what is required including checking in with your insurance company.

That link makes it look like a lovely trip, and on a day like that it can be. However the weather can and does pick up quickly in the Wash. Any hint of an easterly and it is like a washing machine.

 

Personally I wouldnt attempt it in a narrowboat even with the pilot and adequate insurance. If the weather does decide to turn you will find yourself out there for a long time in a boat totally unsuitable for the sea and the conditions. Once you are out your are out. All of the rivers have a tidal window, miss that and you are on your own out there.

[Alastair]

I would not personally cross the wash in a narrowboat.

 

If forced to do so, the narrowboat would need the forward area boarding off, so waves cannot come in over the bow. The windows would need blanking/reinforcing with ply.

 

The area over the engine bay would need sorting so that waves couldn't slop over and into the engine bay.

 

Then I'd want an outboard as secondary propulsion.

 

You could set off in perfect weather and have someone cane it past you in a larger boat and be swamped very easily.

[Naughty Cal]

I would not personally cross the wash in a narrowboat.

 

If forced to do so, the narrowboat would need the forward area boarding off, so waves cannot come in over the bow. The windows would need blanking/reinforcing with ply.

 

The area over the engine bay would need sorting so that waves couldn't slop over and into the engine bay.

 

Then I'd want an outboard as secondary propulsion.

 

You could set off in perfect weather and have someone cane it past you in a larger boat and be swamped very easily.

They dont have to be "caning it" past you either. The wash off the commercial vessels is massive!!

 

Fun in our boat as we can jump their wash and bow waves. Not so fun in a narrowboat which will try and cut through it.......

[Sue]

Just to nip back in here again..

 

The people at Boston were extremely careful about letting the boats out. It certainly wasn't dangerous as far as I gathered. There was some doubt as to whether the swell would be too high in which case we would return back.

 

The commercial traffic is checked for the day, the weather has to be under a certain criteria with the forecast over the actual day within that criteria.

 

There is no way that the port authority would let a narrowboat go if it wasn't safe.

 

I did a report of that trip myself here which shows that we were all ready to have to return if necessary.

 

We had no instructions to 'board up' anything.

 

I met a boater in Limehouse this year who had already waited 3 months for a window to cross the English Channel to France. He boarded up the front of his 55ft boat, waited for the Pilot to say go and went... now that is something I defo would not do!

But then some boaters don't 'do' rivers either..

[Naughty Cal]

It is nothing to do with the Port Authority!

 

Grand Sluice is a CRT lock. I have seen Micky refuse to let boaters through who he thought were unprepared but I'm not actually sure what his authority to do so is.

 

Daft sod didn't stop us going out to get a soaking though

[mrsmelly]

Just to nip back in here again..

 

The people at Boston were extremely careful about letting the boats out. It certainly wasn't dangerous as far as I gathered. There was some doubt as to whether the swell would be too high in which case we would return back.

 

The commercial traffic is checked for the day, the weather has to be under a certain criteria with the forecast over the actual day within that criteria.

 

There is no way that the port authority would let a narrowboat go if it wasn't safe.

 

I did a report of that trip myself here which shows that we were all ready to have to return if necessary.

 

We had no instructions to 'board up' anything.

 

I met a boater in Limehouse this year who had already waited 3 months for a window to cross the English Channel to France. He boarded up the front of his 55ft boat, waited for the Pilot to say go and went... now that is something I defo would not do!

But then some boaters don't 'do' rivers either..

 

Hi

 

Rivers are a totaly different kettle of fish to open sea and not even remotely similar. I wouldnt go to sea on a narrowboat unless it had been substantialy changed during its initial build process to cope with the situation properly. As for going down the Humber and round to the wash on one then stupidity is the only word to cover it.

Funnily those of us who have seagoing experience on proper seagoing capable craft and extensive inland experience on various craft in the main would never even contemplate it, our experience tells us it is a definate no no whatever Michael Fish or his buddies tell us.

 

Tim

[blackrose]

 

Funnily those of us who have seagoing experience on proper seagoing capable craft and extensive inland experience on various craft in the main would never even contemplate it, our experience tells us it is a definate no no whatever Michael Fish or his buddies tell us.

 

Tim

 

I'm not sure about that. Plenty of qualified pilots offer their services to commercial vessels and canal boats for difficult estuaries and tidal crossings, and most of them have plenty of seagoing and inland experience.

Edited November 9, 2013 by blackrose

[msj1s]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments.

I did manage to get the hire company to insure the boat in the end.

The increased premium (which of course I would have to pay) is an additional £60 for a one way crossing.

 

The conditions the insurers had were as follows:

Local Pilot

Navigation Lights

VHF Radio (which the pilot comes with)

2 clear days prior and a good calm forecast anticipated for the day

Journey must commence after dawn and finish before dusk

Increased excess from £100 to £1000 (that the hire company agreed to take a 50/50 liability on.

Buoyancy aids

Stay within the navigable channel (marked by the buoys)

 

Whilst they didn't insist on me taping up windows and doors, the hire company did in order to prevent ingress of seawater.

 

I would therefore say, that if the insurers and hire guys are prepared to let this happen, it can't be as completely crazy as some are making out here. But I would agree, it isn't your 'average' narrowboat trip!

 

But thanks for all your input.

 

 

 

[howardang]

 

I'm not sure about that. Plenty of qualified pilots offer their services to commercial vessels and canal boats for difficult estuaries and tidal crossings, and most of them have plenty of seagoing and inland experience.

I think that sometimes it is a little too easy to polarise opinions on this board because of differing experience and opinions, and like many things discussed there are many shades of opinion both for and against.

 

In this discussion I would tend to agree more with Tim, but I differ with him in that I wouldn't say "never, ever", rather in my opinion I would only contemplate making exposed sea passages in unsuitable craft such as narrow boats and other inland craft in very special and controlled circumstances. Those waters are not suitable for boats which are not designed even a little bit for the conditions which might occur unexpectedly, and that also includes the crew and equipment on board so it is a passage which shouldn't be taken lightly, even with a guide on board. Don't forget that with very few exceptions, even with a guide or pilot on board the final responsibility will lie with the skipper of the boat.

 

Howard

[ditchcrawler]

They use to take hire boats from Gt Yarmouth to Lowestoft via the North Sea at one time.

[Teadaemon]

They use to take hire boats from Gt Yarmouth to Lowestoft via the North Sea at one time.

 

You post on one (or more) of the Norfolk Broads forums, don't you?

 

In which case I'm sure you're familiar with Griff taking Broad Ambition (a 40' wooden Jack Powles ex-hire cruiser) down to the Thames for the Diamond Jubilee pageant. He's also done the Great Yarmouth-Lowestoft trip (as a brief test of the boat before he took her down to London), and earlier this season did Lowestoft-Southwold and back, in company with several other boats, including one similar-sized centre cockpit Aquafibre cruiser. I know on the way back from the Thames, they got caught out by the weather a bit (despite having access to some of the most accurate forecasts available thanks to his contacts in the RN), but even then that just showed that the boat was capable of taking more than the crew could (the boat was fine, but at least one of the crew was incapacitated by seasickness).

 

I know that in the past Richardson's have moved hire cruisers between the Broads and the Thames by water, though I'm not sure if they'd do so these days.

 

There is one story I've heard from the 1950s or 1960s, where a small wooden hire cruiser went AWOL at the end of it's week on hire, and was discovered some days later, tied up to a pier in Kent.

 

Mind you, all Broads Cruisers are not created equal - I probably wouldn't take an FB Wilds or Bounty forward steer bathtub to sea (especially not one with a big well in the bow), but something with a reasonably boat-shaped hull (like the many Bourne 40 based boats) and a well-maintained engine would probably cope as well with the conditions as a great many motor cruisers designed for seagoing use.