Gas locker and Battery Box - Boat Saftey Regs

[p6rob]

Hi All,

 

My boat safety is due in June next year and I have noticed one or two things that I think will need redesigning before it'll pass current regs.

 

The ones that are giving me sleepless nights are the Gas locker, bilge pump wiring and battery box.

 

The bilge pump is currently wired, with an inline fuse on both positive and negative, to the battery. As I understand it, this is a failure. Obviously, It would be preferable to have the bilge pump not affected by the cut off switch:

Is it acceptable to wire the positive to the battery side of the cut off with an appropriate ring terminal? or should I find a way to fit a fuse box and bus bar in the engine bay for the bilge pump/s

 

Currently I have two leisure and one starter batteries, they are sited on a plywood plinth on the uxter plate. The three batteries are surrounded by plywood which looks to be 'secured' by welding wire and a couple of j-bolts around the perimiter, the j-bolts mount through brackets welded to the hull. The lid just sits on top with a cutout that the master fuse nestles in.

There is another welding wire/ J bolt fixing that, if it wasn't such a faff would hold the lid in place. I think this arrangement looks naff but, in practice has proved to keep the batteries located very well, even crashing into bridges hasn't affected it so far.

 

Forward of the engine, on the bulkhead, there is what looks like a battery tray made of angle iron (open on all sides). I'd like to fit an extra leisure battery at some point and it seems to me that moving the starter battery to this frame would make sense, as I could just fit the extra leisure battery in it's current location. The problem is how to enclose the starter battery frame to satisfy the BSS requirements. Would it pass If I boxed in the angle iron framework with wood or metal for example? How about venting requirements?

 

Assuming the battery terminals have insulated covers, is a battery compartment lid an actual requirement?

 

At the moment, either side of the front cabin doors there are metal lockers on the bow of my boat. One, the gas locker, is welded to the floor and bulkhead. However it doesn't appear to have a drain. The slope of the hull and straight sides of the locker mean there is a gap of about three inches in-between on the deck.

 

I was planning on drilling a hole as low down as possible on the port side of the locker and another hole through the side of the hull and using a a couple of skin fittings and short length of tube between gas locker and hull side, so that any leaked gas would then vent overboard.

Having seen the recent threads about gas lockers, I'm no longer sure if this would be accepted by a BSS inspector. To my way of thinking it should be, but, I do find the current BSS pdf somewhat confusing and the written letter of the law not necessarily

If venting via a skin fitting wasn't acceptable, what are the approved methods to bridge a gap between hull and locker?

 

The other locker is arguably not a gas locker. It is the same size, but has no plumbing to it and is not currently welded in place. I do however keep a spare gas bottle in there. The floor of this one is rotten and needs repairing or replacing. Ultimately I'd like to repair it, vent it in the same way and weld it to the hull and bulkhead, however if time runs out, could I just remove it and the spare gas bottle at the time of inspection or put a 'This is not a gas locker' label on it.

 

Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks for any advice. Here's hoping for better nights sleep

 

Pic of the currently unused battery cradle

 

http://www.shipmatesahoy.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=10848&g2_serialNumber=5

 

And the battery tray cover. In this picture, just in front of my foot, is the welding wire/j-bolt strap that is supposed to slip over the lid.

http://www.shipmatesahoy.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=10839&g2_serialNumber=4

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

[bottle]

I will try to answer the bits i am happy to answer.

 

Batteries should be strapped down or in a box so that they cannot move or fall over when the boat rolls.

 

I think the BSS give figures to angles of roll etc.

 

The batteries do not require a lid if the terminals have the correct covers fitted. Mine are like this and passed in July.

 

My batteries are held down with ratchet straps and they sit in an angle iron tray (no sides)

 

As for gas lockers that is simple enough, they must be sealed so that no gas can enter the boat (except through the pipe) and must be vented over the side.

 

If yours are not like this then they are not gas lockers and should not have gas bottles in them.

 

edit: wrong word used

Edited November 6, 2013 by bottle

[dor]

 

 

The bilge pump is currently wired, with an inline fuse on both positive and negative, to the battery. As I understand it, this is a failure. Obviously, It would be preferable to have the bilge pump not affected by the cut off switch:

 

As far as I am aware, this is the normal way of wiring a bilge pump. I.e. ring connector on battery terminal bolt going to the bilge pump via an inline fuse. The fuse should be as near as possible to the battery connection. you don't need one in the negative line.

[MtB]

Hi All,

 

My boat safety is due in June next year and I have noticed one or two things that I think will need redesigning before it'll pass current regs.

 

The ones that are giving me sleepless nights are <snip>

 

 

 

Mate, lighten up a bit! Time to worry about this stuff is about May, next year.

 

OR.... look up the bod who did the BSS last time around and ask him round to do you a new one now. Then if he fails it you can ask why he passed it last time. And if he sticks to his guns you'll know EXACTLY what needs doing to achieve compliance, all the time still having a valid BSS still in force.

 

Unless a fail cancels out a previous valid BSS... Teadaemon? Anyone??!

 

MtB

[Teadaemon]

Wiring the bilge pump directly to the battery, providing it's protected by an appropriately rated inline fuse (in either positive or negative) is permitted (check 3.1.2).

 

Batteries need to be secured against movement of more than 10mm in any direction (check 3.1.2), how you do this is up to you. Battery terminals need to be insulated (check 3.1.3), this is often achieved by having a lid on the battery box, but can also be done by insulating each individual terminal (appropriate plastic insulating boots are available for a few pounds on eBay, amongst other places).

 

Gas lockers - the first relevant check is 7.1.1 Are all LPG cylinders and containers stored in a position where any leakage will be directed safely overboard?

 

As you can see, it covers all gas cylinders present on board, whether they're connected or not, and the requirement is that all cylinders are stored either in a gas locker, or in an open location where any leaking LPG will flow overboard, and more than 1m from any source of ignition or opening to the interior of the vessel.

 

I'd be surprised to see a gas locker that didn't have a drain at all, it might be worth having another look before you start installing another one. One idea might be to pour a gallon or two of water into the bottom of the locker, and see if it starts draining out of the side of the boat (bear in mind that the drain can be up to 25mm above the bottom of the locker). If you do need to install a drain, then it is acceptable to use two skin fittings and a length of pipe. That pipe and the associated skin fittings will need to be accessible for inspection as part of the BSS examination.

 

 

Mate, lighten up a bit! Time to worry about this stuff is about May, next year.

 

OR.... look up the bod who did the BSS last time around and ask him round to do you a new one now. Then if he fails it you can ask why he passed it last time. And if he sticks to his guns you'll know EXACTLY what needs doing to achieve compliance, all the time still having a valid BSS still in force.

 

Unless a fail cancels out a previous valid BSS... Teadaemon? Anyone??!

 

MtB

 

I wouldn't like to get into the intricacies of whether a BSS failure can cancel a current BSS certificate (that's really a matter for the BSS office and the appropriate navigation authority), it would only normally become important if the failure was something that caused the boat to be immediately dangerous to those on board or people nearby.

[p6rob]

lighten up! lighten up!! I cannae do that.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

 

 

OR.... look up the bod who did the BSS last time around and ask him round to do you a new one now. Then if he fails it you can ask why he passed it last time. And if he sticks to his guns you'll know EXACTLY what needs doing to achieve compliance, all the time still having a valid BSS still in force.

 

 

 

 

That is what I do

[MtB]

lighten up! lighten up!! I cannae do that.

 

 

Oh I see, you're Scotch..... so there's no hope!

 

 

MtB

[nicknorman]

Oh I see, you're Scotch..... so there's no hope!

 

 

MtB

No, if he was Scotch he would fail the BSS because whisky is highly inflammable.

[Iain_S]

Only if it's above proof

 

Iain

[AndrewIC]

To echo what others have said, the bilge pump doesn't have to go through the isolator as long as it is fused - mine is like that. The batteries don't have to be in a box, as long as they are secured - there are other ways of doing that, I have an assortment of bracketry that does the job. Battery terminals do not need to be under a lid, but they do have to be protected against accidental shorts - mine have plastic boots secured by a cable tie. All should be acceptable to an examiner.

 

If it's passed a BSS exam before, and nothing drastic has changed, it should pass again. I have always used the same examiner that he first owner of my boat used, I think he's on a record fifth exam of the same boat now

[p6rob]

Thanks for all the advice.

 

I thought the BSS regs had evolved a lot recently, which is why I assume my gas locker is no longer compliant.

I'm not scotch, Brummie and proud. Perhaps drinking scotch will help me lighten up, chin chin hic .

[Teadaemon]

Thanks for all the advice.

 

I thought the BSS regs had evolved a lot recently, which is why I assume my gas locker is no longer compliant.

I'm not scotch, Brummie and proud. Perhaps drinking scotch will help me lighten up, chin chin hic .

 

The checks of gas lockers are one of the areas where there were quite a lot of changes in the 2013 checks compared to previous versions, but the requirements for a drain haven't changed, which is why I'd be surprised if there wasn't one. As I do get clients who have no idea where there gas locker drain is (to be fair, on some cruisers it's not especially obvious, and can require quite a bit of contortion to see and check even when you know which of the half a dozen or so skin fittings it's connected to), I've learned a few tricks for finding them when I need to. Of course, it doesn't work if the drain is below the waterline (which is a fail), possibly due to changes in ballast, trim, or overplating.

If it's passed a BSS exam before, and nothing drastic has changed, it should pass again. I have always used the same examiner that he first owner of my boat used, I think he's on a record fifth exam of the same boat now

 

Except that one of the things that changes is the checks - assuming that the boat has been examined every fours years since the scheme came in, it's now on the fourth different set of checks (the original ones, 2002, 2005, and now the 2013 version).

 

Also, BSS examiners are human, and therefore will not be 100% accurate 100% of the time (they may, indeed should, get close). I've not been a BSS examiner long enough to have examined a boat four years after I examined it previously, but I know plenty who have, and all of them have been in the situation of finding stuff that they know they should have spotted last time, but didn't. It's a bit embarrassing to admit our mistakes, but really, the only thing you can do in that situation is to 'fess up to the client that you got it wrong last time, and hope they take it with good grace.

[Alastair]

+1 for ratchet straps. Easy to fit, easy to slacken off (for when you need to move batteries).

 

If you have to drill a new hole in the locker, do check the locker doesn't have gas in it . . . .

 

Is the floor of your existing locker above the waterline?

 

I had a 'wet' locker in one boat. A prospective purchaser wanted to weld up the drain holes because he didn't like the sight of water 'inside' the boat!

[AndrewIC]

Except that one of the things that changes is the checks - assuming that the boat has been examined every fours years since the scheme came in, it's now on the fourth different set of checks (the original ones, 2002, 2005, and now the 2013 version).

Yes, that's a fair point, which is why I caveated my comment. There was a relaxation in some requirements a while back (when some of the first-party risks became advisory), and in the areas the OP mentions the requirements to restrain batteries and to have gas locker drains have been there for a very long time, possibly forever. However I can't think of anything I have had to do specifically to get the boat to pass a BSS exam which has resulted from a change in the requirements, with the exception of getting rid of a very dodgy gas changeover arrangement which scared the willies out of me anyway.

 

(My old Paloma water heater passes and fails the flue test (now advisory) with equal regularity depending on the weather.)

[MtB]

 

The checks of gas lockers are one of the areas where there were quite a lot of changes in the 2013 checks compared to previous versions, but the requirements for a drain haven't changed, which is why I'd be surprised if there wasn't one. As I do get clients who have no idea where there gas locker drain is (to be fair, on some cruisers it's not especially obvious, and can require quite a bit of contortion to see and check even when you know which of the half a dozen or so skin fittings it's connected to), I've learned a few tricks for finding them when I need to. Of course, it doesn't work if the drain is below the waterline (which is a fail), possibly due to changes in ballast, trim, or overplating.

 

Except that one of the things that changes is the checks - assuming that the boat has been examined every fours years since the scheme came in, it's now on the fourth different set of checks (the original ones, 2002, 2005, and now the 2013 version).

 

Also, BSS examiners are human, and therefore will not be 100% accurate 100% of the time (they may, indeed should, get close). I've not been a BSS examiner long enough to have examined a boat four years after I examined it previously, but I know plenty who have, and all of them have been in the situation of finding stuff that they know they should have spotted last time, but didn't. It's a bit embarrassing to admit our mistakes, but really, the only thing you can do in that situation is to 'fess up to the client that you got it wrong last time, and hope they take it with good grace.

 

I like a BSS examiner with a sense of humour....

 

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

 

I like a BSS examiner with a sense of humour....

 

 

MtB

Mine gave me good advice about the dog and Green lipped Mussel Extract http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B005DKVLVY

[Teadaemon]

 

I like a BSS examiner with a sense of humour....

 

 

MtB

 

Ok, BSS examiners are mostly human (although anyone who's had the misfortune to meet me before I've had my first cup of coffee in the morning might disagree).

[Mike Jordan]

If you decide to build a battery box I would suggest that you avoid using steel. Its all to easy to get a short circuit which destroys the batteries. You can sometimes make better use of the space by fitting a sliding battery box, its just a pair of angles welded to the uxter with a captive box on top. A sketch and photo can be found on my gallery.

Mike