Looking for some photos/information

[junior]

Does anyone have any photo's of Leeds and Liverpool long boat 'Viktoria' or can point me in the direction of?

 

My boat was built in the hull of this boat and it would be great to see a picture of the boat 'that gave birth' to mine.

 

Likewise, I've been told it was launched by lifting her out with two Trifor winches slung under the East Lancashire Road bridge on the Leigh of the Bridgewater. I have a romantic plan to sail from London up to this location next summer and to meet up with the first owner. Does this location still exist?

 

Finally can anyone explain what the following means please;

 

"The Manchester registration she carries is the last number in the Manchester public health registration book after the Bridgewater Kelloggs grain boats were registered".

 

I've googled 'Manchester public health registration' and come up with nothing.

[cheshire~rose]

Health registration was when the boat was inspected to check the accommodation was suitable for a family.

 

It would appear that ViKtoria was the last recorded entry in the Manchester book.

 

Try having a search for photo's or info in the archives here:

 

http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html

 

Good luck with it, it can be fascinating!

[TimYoung]

I can confirm the launching method, yes it was done that way! The A580 still crosses the bridge, or it did on Saturday. I've got one of the Tirfors.

 

Viktoria (correct spelling) belongs to Derek Bent, he also owns Ambush, a motor long boat used for delivering coal etc.

 

Albion was built by Paul Lorenz, Roger Lorenz and Colin Humphries. Sadly Roger has recently died.

 

We keep Rudd and Severn at Paul's yard - Bedford Basin, Leigh.

 

Built for Steve Corbett, I have no contact details for him. I installed the engine, PH2WRMR which we bought from a chap in a mill opposite.

 

We boated it to Chester as a hull and engineroom for Jim Forster to finish.

 

Tim

[junior]

I can confirm the launching method, yes it was done that way! The A580 still crosses the bridge, or it did on Saturday. I've got one of the Tirfors.

 

Viktoria (correct spelling) belongs to Derek Bent, he also owns Ambush, a motor long boat used for delivering coal etc.

 

Albion was built by Paul Lorenz, Roger Lorenz and Colin Humphries. Sadly Roger has recently died.

 

We keep Rudd and Severn at Paul's yard - Bedford Basin, Leigh.

 

Built for Steve Corbett, I have no contact details for him. I installed the engine, PH2WRMR which we bought from a chap in a mill opposite.

 

We boated it to Chester as a hull and engineroom for Jim Forster to finish.

 

Tim

Wow, how amazing. Well it is for me anyway! To think that within half an hour of posting that, I have a reply from someone who knew the boat!

 

Yes I had been told that it was taken to Chester for a chap called Jim Forrester to do the back cabin and that he owned Clover and Hampton. I never expected the person that took it there to be on here!

 

So did you have any other contact with her? For what is a non historic boat, I'm genuinely pleased she seems to have such a story and traceable history.

 

Can yoy tell me what 'work flats' are? I'm told her regular work was to move work flats for the Ship Canal Company.

Edited November 4, 2013 by junior

[Pluto]

I have Roger Lorenz's photos, but haven't finished scanning them yet. Two of boats being built in Viktoria are below, one unknown boat, from 1989 I think, and one of Alan Holden's boat Anna. Jim Forrester went on to work on boat conservation at the Merseyside Maritime Museum, and ended up in charge of the Imperial War Museum site in Salford.

[junior]

I have Roger Lorenz's photos, but haven't finished scanning them yet. Two of boats being built in Viktoria are below, one unknown boat, from 1989 I think, and one of Alan Holden's boat Anna. Jim Forrester went on to work on boat conservation at the Merseyside Maritime Museum, and ended up in charge of the Imperial War Museum site in Salford.

Thanks very much, it certainly helps me visualise how a boat was built inside another boat. I believe mine was built in 1977 so unless you are out by 12 years, it's unlikely that first pictureis mine. I guess he built quite a few in Viktoria. I'm led to believe mine was the first as his first ever attempt at building a brand new boat.

 

Sounds like Jim Forrester was a good craftsman then and explains why 35+ years later the back cabin is still exactly as he fitted it.

 

If you come across any pictures of 'Albion' whilst going through Rogers photos I'd really be interested in seeing them.

Edited November 4, 2013 by junior

[Steve Corbett]

Well, I never thought my old boat would stir so many memories.

 

I have quite a pile of photos of Albion taken during the build, the day she went in the water (Roger wouldn't let me take any pictures of the boat hanging off the East Lancs Road bridge) and of her later life until we parted company in 1985. Martin already has the few that I've scanned but most remain to be done.

 

Mike's first photo is not the Albion build but you get the idea of how it was done.

 

Tim's memory is spot on. I think his dad finally helped us line up the engine using nothing more than his thumbnails and a huge amount of experience.

 

The trip to Chester was one of the coldest trips I can remember. I think Tim and I slept under a makeshift tent rigged in the hold. Absolutely freezing!

 

The build was all the work of Colin Humphries whose workmanship was first class, as was Jim's woodwork on the back cabin.

 

Steve

[TimYoung]

Oooh!

 

Captain Corbett - the wonders of the internet.

 

Tim

[junior]

How fantastic! I'm already studying the maps and planning my summer 2014 cruise to the Bridgwater Canal.

[Nightwatch]

I think it's smashing the way things like this thread develope. I ran one sometime ago on the relatively young Nightwatch. I got some info and actually a message from one of the fitterouterers. (Have I created a word there) who had photos. I have not heard from him since despite messages.

 

Good look Junior (Martin) on your quest for more and more information.

 

Martyn

[Guest]

I think it's smashing the way things like this thread develope. I ran one sometime ago on the relatively young Nightwatch. I got some info and actually a message from one of the fitterouterers. (Have I created a word there) who had photos. I have not heard from him since despite messages.

 

Good look Junior (Martin) on your quest for more and more information.

 

Martyn

 

Ditto - when I posted about our boat I was sent photos of the build and a PDF copy of a Waterrways World article when it was one of their 'featured' boats.

[junior]

.

Good look Junior (Martin) on your quest for more and more information.

Martyn

Thanks. To be fair, Steve (the first owner) who has just registered on here has been fantastic and has sent me lot's of photos of the boat in its original guise, and supplied me with loads of information.

 

I'm just curious to know as much as I can about everything (hence being intrigued to see what Viktoria looked like), so I thought I'd open it up to the forum which it seems has been a good move.

[Steve Corbett]

Martin,

 

I have some pictures of Albion sitting in the hold of Viktoria at various stages of construction. They are not scanned (no scanner at present) but when we finally get to meet up I'll bring all the pictures with me.

 

At that time (1980) Viktoria was not much of a looker. To say she'd seen better days would be an understatement.

 

Anything else you need to know please just ask.

 

Steve

[Paul H]

From an article in Waterways World Feb 1982:

 

Paul

 

[Athy]

The Davison tug with a Sabb engine looks kinda cute.

[Steve Corbett]

I remember the day that photo of Albion was taken. That's me steering with my then girlfriend Denise perched on the counter. My dad is hanging on to the back end rail. We had just come round the turn at Worsley with the hull of Rudd in tow making for the dry dock where the big Rudd restoration would start. There are a few more pictures that were taken that day all in glorious black and white.

 

Steve

[Capt Col]

Hi

There is a society that has just been set up with the aim of restoring "Viktoria" and "Ambush", still in it's early stages, but there is a facebook page here with pictures of both of the boats.

"Viki" and "Ambush" are currently in the ownership of Derek Bent who uses Ambush to provide a coal and diesel service to boaters on the west end on the L and L.

They are both moored at Crooke.

The aim is to bring both of the boats back to a mooring in Burscough, where the mill they where built to serve is currently being turned into flats.

The next meeting of the society is at The Ring'o'bells pub on Friday 22nd Nov from 7.30.

Col who has got the job of publicity for the society....

[pete harrison]

Health registration was when the boat was inspected to check the accommodation was suitable for a family.

 

It would appear that ViKtoria was the last recorded entry in the Manchester book.

The last boat to be health registered at Manchester was FRED ABBOTT, an unpowered wide boat operated by Frederick J. Abbott Ltd., 15 Stanley Street, Salford 3 - and was allocated with the registration number Manchester 1190. I do not have the date that this health registration was issued but it was inspected for registration on 29 May 1961 and had two cabins, although only one was registered for habitation. FRED ABBOTT was previously health registered on 08 July 1932 as Runcorn 1156 - MAN 35 for British Isles Transport Company Ltd., Liverpool.

 

ALBION was lettered as Manchester 1191 but was built several years after health registrations ceased to be required, or issued.

[junior]

The last boat to be health registered at Manchester was FRED ABBOTT, an unpowered wide boat operated by Frederick J. Abbott Ltd., 15 Stanley Street, Salford 3 - and was allocated with the registration number Manchester 1190. I do not have the date that this health registration was issued but it was inspected for registration on 29 May 1961 and had two cabins, although only one was registered for habitation. FRED ABBOTT was previously health registered on 08 July 1932 as Runcorn 1156 - MAN 35 for British Isles Transport Company Ltd., Liverpool.

 

ALBION was lettered as Manchester 1191 but was built several years after health registrations ceased to be required, or issued.

You are correct, I found this in a subsequent email that I hadn't noticed before...

"The public health inspector wouldnt actually issue a certificate because the law has been repealed (not even when I offered him the seven and sixpence fee!!!) I did have sight of the registration book and Manchester 1191 would have been her given number".

 

Thanks again to the original owner for the info.

[Steve Corbett]

Mr Harrison is completely correct.

 

Just to throw a bit more light on Albion's Manchester number. I decided that the boat should (if possible) have a Manchester registration. With hindsight Leigh might have been more appropriate.

To this end I went to Manchester town hall and asked to see "whoever deals with canal boat registrations" After some deliberations and head scratching I was introduced to Mr Butterworth, the Assistant Principal Public Health Inspector for Greater Manchester. He turned out to be a nice chap who was actually interested in what I wanted to do. Once he'd satisfied himself that I wasn't completely barking mad he brought out the last volume of the Manchester Canal Boat Register for me to look at.

 

This volume contained the registration details for the Cowburn and Cowpar motors. I think it had the Par boats (Parbella etc) and the Meres (Bigmere etc) as well. The last entry was Fred Abbott number 1190.

Although he couldn't issue a registration certificate as there was no longer any legal requirement for a boat to be registered as "an extraordinary dwelling" he raised no objection when I asked if it would be OK to use the next number in the book. That was as close as I could get to having Albion as the last canal boat registered in Manchester.

 

Are the Manchester register volumes in a safe place now?

 

Steve

[pete harrison]

Are the Manchester register volumes in a safe place now?

 

Steve

I believe they are still held by the Council at Manchester.

 

My transcript of the Manchester Health Register came to me from another researcher (now long deceased) and was originally transcribed by him in the 1970's. This transcript has been databased by me and is complete from Manchester 951 (26 November 1909) to 1190 (25 May 1961). From Manchester 1 (02 November 1878) to 950 (12 November 1909) this transcript lists only the registration date, registration number, boat name and cancellation details. Unfortunately the owner / address, beam, cabin details and masters name is missing in most cases, although I have sourced several from elsewhere. I am not aware of anybody having a complete transcript of these earlier details, neither are they complete at Manchester (so I am told).

[Steve Corbett]

Thanks for that information. I am pleased to hear they are safe.

 

Steve

[Pluto]

Could this be a photo you are looking for? Just scanned from Roger Lorenz's slide collection.

 

Edited to add another pic.

 

Edited November 15, 2013 by Pluto

[junior]

Could this be a photo you are looking for? Just scanned from Roger Lorenz's slide collection.

 

Edited to add another pic.

 

WOW, just wow. THAT'S MY BOAT!

 

That must have been her going to have her wooden back cabin built. Apparently mine was the first new boat he ever built I think, so I figured he'd have a few photos.

 

Thank you so much!

[TimYoung]

It's on its way to be launched under the A580!

 

Tim