Insurance for Older Boats

[DandGNWales]

We have been getting quotes to insure our new to us narrowboat, but as she is knocking on a bit (Been told she was built in 1980 but need to verify this) we have spent a lot of time pumping all our info into various websites for quotations only to find we can only get 3rd party cover or as she is old no quote at all, so to sum up are there any specialist companies that insure boats at the lower end of the market

[Rufford]

Basic Boat Liability Insurance do 3rd party cover, if you want additional cover then you will need a survey if it is older than 25 years.

[FadeToScarlet]

It is possible to insure older boats- ours is 78 years old- but you do tend to need a survey for more than 3rd party cover. Towergate Mardon, Michael Stimpson, and others all insure older boats.

[cheshire~rose]

Python (84 years old) is insured with Collidge and Partners.

 

I think they require a hull survey every 4 years? If you have an older boat the cost of a survey could be well worthwhile just to keep and eye on what is happening below the waterline and if you negotiate a good deal on a survey and spread the cost over the 4 years it lasts then it is not such a big deal really if it means you can adequately insure your boat

Edited September 26, 2013 by cheshire~rose

[George94]

My boat, like many Dutch barges, is almost 100 years old. Insurance is no problem at all, but as stated earlier, a regular survey is required.

[Guest]

Craftinsure (our insurer) must insure older boats because they say this-

 

• If over 30 years old, the boat has had a full out of the water condition survey, carried out within the last 5 years by a qualified yacht surveyor, and all recommendations have been complied with.

 

When you use their 'quick quote' system.

 

 

ed PS the words 'yacht' surveyor is actually the words they use.

Edited September 26, 2013 by The Dog House

[Neil2]

If you have a boat that old the usual insurance requirement is a full out of water survey within the last 4/5 years.

 

If you have a boat that old and she hasn't had such a survey within the last 4/5 years I strongly suggest you get it done asap.

 

The insurance requirements are there for very good reasons.

[Tony Brooks]

When my boat hit its 26th year Craftinsure increased the premium more than a little, still cheaper that having a survey though and I could have reduced it by carrying a larger excess.

[David Schweizer]

If you are over 50 years old, take a look at SAGA. boat insurance, they do not require a hull survey on a steel narrowboat less than 40 years old, except for Springers where the maximum age is 30 years old. Our boat is 31 years old and the cost was actually less than what I had been paying for the same cover, to one of the other well known boat insurance companies

 

I got fed up with paying so called surveyors vast sums of money to look at the hull, bang a few places with a hammer, measure the depth of any pits with a vernier, and write a fancy report containing dozens of get out clauses. All something I can (and do) do every two years when the boat is in dry dock for blacking. I also have it inspected by a reputable boatbuilder who identifies any work that might need doing.

 

If you are under fifty you may have to wait, or lie about your age (not a serious suggestion!!)

[alan_fincher]

Interesting comment from David about Saga, (who we do in fact have our newer boat insured with - a mere 18 years old in that case).

When I actually rang them up about some of the statements I have head about them insuring older boats, they were a bit "wobbly" on the whole topic. Can't remember full detail now, but their answers were less than straightforward.

 

I'm not doubting they are properly covering David's 31 year old boat, but I don't think it necessarily the case if you present them with a boat not currently insured with them that may be older, and where perhaps neither the build date nor the builder can be verified with total certainty.

Of course if you are under 50 you can ignore all that!

[DandGNWales]

Sadly I'm a mere boy at 47 lol, but the wife is over the magic 50 years young, so will get her to get a quote, so thanks for all the replies, the boat did have a survey by the guy who was going to buy it for £20,000 but it failed on the starboard side stern area, so got a welder that used to build narrowboats going to overplate the stern for £600 max so a bargain, all the rest of the hull passed with flying colours, also just oredered 4 normal anodes for the bow and stern and 2 of the slim line ones for the side, as a Senior Corrosion Engineer in the Oil & Gas Industry would not be a good advert for my job if our boat corroded away

[Chop!]

We have been getting quotes to insure our new to us narrowboat, but as she is knocking on a bit (Been told she was built in 1980 but need to verify this) we have spent a lot of time pumping all our info into various websites for quotations only to find we can only get 3rd party cover or as she is old no quote at all, so to sum up are there any specialist companies that insure boats at the lower end of the market

Our pair Freyja (1986) and Christina (1972) are insured with Towergate Mardon, they insisted on a copy of our survey.

Unfortunately, the surveyor stated that he couldn't OK the gas as he wasn't gas safe registered (but we have a bubble tester?)

So we are not insured for gas problems until we get it OK'd

He also stated that all the electrics worked, that they were not up to modern standards

So we are not insured for electrical problems either until we can 'modernise' it all and have it certified

[David Schweizer]

Interesting comment from David about Saga, (who we do in fact have our newer boat insured with - a mere 18 years old in that case).

 

When I actually rang them up about some of the statements I have head about them insuring older boats, they were a bit "wobbly" on the whole topic. Can't remember full detail now, but their answers were less than straightforward.

 

I'm not doubting they are properly covering David's 31 year old boat, but I don't think it necessarily the case if you present them with a boat not currently insured with them that may be older, and where perhaps neither the build date nor the builder can be verified with total certainty.

 

Of course if you are under 50 you can ignore all that!

 

Our boat was 30 years old when we moved the insurance to SAGA. They did not ask for a survey, and the policy seems to cover exactly the same risks as our previous insurer. The only differnce being that the excess increased from £100 to £150, which I felt we could live with, seeing as we had already saved £600 in surveyor;s fees.

 

The insurance premium is due for renewal in about six weeks time, we will see if they adhere to their promise of never asking for a survey, as long as we are already insured with them.

Edited September 26, 2013 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

 

The insurance premium is due for renewal in about six weeks time, we will see if they adhere to their promise of never asking for a survey, as long as we are already insured with them.

 

i think you'll probably be fine, if you have already been accepted and are under cover.

 

However I found their replies less than helpful when I tried to clarify a number of points with them.

 

If you can, however, tell me anybody who will keep a 77 year old boat under comprehensive cover without needing a survey every number of years, I would love to hear about it!

[IanM]

Our pair Freyja (1986) and Christina (1972) are insured with Towergate Mardon, they insisted on a copy of our survey.

Unfortunately, the surveyor stated that he couldn't OK the gas as he wasn't gas safe registered (but we have a bubble tester?)

So we are not insured for gas problems until we get it OK'd

He also stated that all the electrics worked, that they were not up to modern standards

So we are not insured for electrical problems either until we can 'modernise' it all and have it certified

 

How'd it all get a BSC for your licence if it's not up to scratch?

[MtB]

 

How'd it all get a BSC for your licence if it's not up to scratch?

 

Are you are confusing a survey with a BSS inspection?

 

The former is an inspection and report on the condition of the boat, the latter is a pass/fail inspection of a list of safety points.

 

They surveyor stated he is not qualified comment on the gas, not that the gas is 'not up to scratch'. BSS bods are trained to inspect gas installations.

 

MtB

[DandGNWales]

Saga may have changed their policy as just tried to get a quote from them and they told us because of the age of the boat (1978) that they have passed it to the underwriters and that they will probably ask for a full out of the water survey, told them it had been surveyed by the guy who was going to buy her but was put off by the stern welding repair required and they said it would have to be in my name, that sounds daft to me

[alan_fincher]

If you are over 50 years old, take a look at SAGA. boat insurance, they do not require a hull survey on a steel narrowboat less than 40 years old, except for Springers where the maximum age is 30 years old.

 

 

Saga may have changed their policy as just tried to get a quote from them and they told us because of the age of the boat (1978) that they have passed it to the underwriters and that they will probably ask for a full out of the water survey, told them it had been surveyed by the guy who was going to buy her but was put off by the stern welding repair required and they said it would have to be in my name, that sounds daft to me

Seems I wasn't wrong when I suggested that it is not always as straightforward with Saga as "if the boat is less than 40 years old, they don't need a survey".

 

 

[Neil2]

If it's had a full survey and you have complied with the surveyors recommendations you can definitely do it through Craftinsure, it's a very straightforward online process. They don't care who had the survey done, as you say what does it matter.

 

I know because of this typical 30 year cut off point there are a lot of old boats around with just third party insurance but it only takes one perforation to sink a boat and having to recover a sunken boat from the canal is not something you want to do at your own expense.

 

I agree with David, there are surveyors and surveyors, but if it's the difference between getting a boat on fully comp insurance and risking it on TPO, I'd get the thing surveyed.

[DandGNWales]

Yet another update, Saga just called said the underwriter did not require a survey so got it fully comp for £162.00 which I think, but remember are new to insuring our own boat so no previous experience seems like a great deal to me, especially as 3rd party only was coming out at £100.00

[David Schweizer]

If it's had a full survey and you have complied with the surveyors recommendations you can definitely do it through Craftinsure, it's a very straightforward online process. They don't care who had the survey done, as you say what does it matter.

 

I know because of this typical 30 year cut off point there are a lot of old boats around with just third party insurance but it only takes one perforation to sink a boat and having to recover a sunken boat from the canal is not something you want to do at your own expense.

 

I agree with David, there are surveyors and surveyors, but if it's the difference between getting a boat on fully comp insurance and risking it on TPO, I'd get the thing surveyed.

 

Why do you assume that my insurance without a survey is Third Party Only? In post 13 i made it clear that the policy cover is the same as that which I had with my previous insurer.

Edited September 26, 2013 by David Schweizer

[Neil2]

 

Why do you assume that my insurance without a survey is Third Party Only? In post 13 i made it clear that the policy cover is the same as that which I had with my previous insurer.

 

 

I am completely at a loss to understand how you interpreted my post that way, I made no reference to your position re insurance.

 

I was simply making a general point that regardless of how you value a surveyors opinion, it may be the crucial difference between being able to get full cover on a boat and being restricted to TPO.

 

Read the post again, then take out the words "I agree with David" - it doesn't alter the meaning of the sentence.

 

However, I'll be careful before I use those words again.

[David Schweizer]

I am completely at a loss to understand how you interpreted my post that way, I made no reference to your position re insurance.

 

I was simply making a general point that regardless of how you value a surveyors opinion, it may be the crucial difference between being able to get full cover on a boat and being restricted to TPO.

 

Read the post again, then take out the words "I agree with David" - it doesn't alter the meaning of the sentence.

 

However, I'll be careful before I use those words again.

 

The link between the first half of the sentence, and the second half appeared (at least to me) that one was the consequence of the other, but I am more than happy to accept that you did not intend any such sugestion.

Edited September 26, 2013 by David Schweizer

[Neil2]

 

The link between the first half of the sentence, and the second half appeared (at least to me) that one was the consequence of the other, but I am more than happy to accept that you did not intend any such sugestion.

 

Ok David - sorry if I was a bit testy with the reply, it has not been a good day, I mean boat-wise.

[Chop!]

 

How'd it all get a BSC for your licence if it's not up to scratch?

They both had current BSCs, it was the full pre-purchase survey on Freyja that caused the insurance to limit their cover, as I said, it all works fine, it is just obvious that it wasn't done yesterday