Leaving Gates Open

[JDR]

While I can understand the logic of leaving a gate open on leaving double locks, especially on river sections and have done so myself and been grateful to find an open gate when approaching locks it is obvious that the majority of wear on bottom gates on the K&A is caused by boats clouting the gates on entry/exit. Almost every lock on the E K&A has a large hole worn in each bottom gate about two feet above the empty level of the lock. Perhaps the main consideration should not be the most efficient use of the lock but the most protection of an ageing infrastructure in respect of a limited budget for maintenance?

[RickH]

While I can understand the logic of leaving a gate open on leaving double locks, especially on river sections and have done so myself and been grateful to find an open gate when approaching locks it is obvious that the majority of wear on bottom gates on the K&A is caused by boats clouting the gates on entry/exit. Almost every lock on the E K&A has a large hole worn in each bottom gate about two feet above the empty level of the lock. Perhaps the main consideration should not be the most efficient use of the lock but the most protection of an ageing infrastructure in respect of a limited budget for maintenance?

No more hire boats on the K&A then , should sort that out .

[Sir Nibble]

Arrive at a full lock. See the difference in levels? That shows how much water was saved by shutting the bottom gates. So what now? If that water is so important then there is no way you are going to turn that lock is there, you will wait for a boat going up won't you. Supposing you're going down, by refilling the lock you've just unsaved that water and shutting the gates made no difference. Supposing the lock is empty, see the difference in levels again? if you are filling the lock to go down then that water is genuinely saved, if emptying it to go up then once again it's unsaved. If water saving is so important then before going on about "selfishly" leaving gates open are you sure you always wait for a share or for a boat coming the other way before turning a lock?

[Guest]

No more hire boats on the K&A then , should sort that out .

 

Last boat I saw deliberately forcing the gates open with his boat was not a hire boater...., I've never seen a hire boat do it so how would that help?

Edited September 19, 2013 by The Dog House

[Sir Nibble]

It's entering and leaving through one gate that does it. Most boat owners can thread that particular needle whereas hire boaters usually bounce from gate to wall a few times.

[JDR]

Most use of single gates is by private boaters that I have seen. I like to think it is not difficult to enter/exit with a single bottom gate slowly without contact but the wear pattern on the gates indicates that over a period of months/years this is not the case.

[Guest]

Most use of single gates is by private boaters that I have seen. I like to think it is not difficult to enter/exit with a single bottom gate slowly without contact but the wear pattern on the gates indicates that over a period of months/years this is not the case.

 

It took us ages as hire boaters to muster up the confidence to 'single gate' - the first time we did we didn't rub the gates but we did manage to break the wooden extension on the tiller.

 

Previously and subsequently till we gained the confidence not to damage anything again we reverted to using both gates.

[billS]

Some gates on the K&A have a steel plate on the outside of, and flush with, the mitre which protects the wooden "sealing face" from damage when a single gate is used. I can't see any reason why these are not fitted to all the double lock bottom gates.

[RickH]

 

Last boat I saw deliberately forcing the gates open with his boat was not a hire boater...., I've never seen a hire boat do it so how would that help?

That was a tongue in cheek comment . The last hard impact on a gate I saw was a hire boat smashing a gate at around 3kts and bounsing back 15ft . That was 3 days ago . I'm sure there are bad owners too , I was hit the other day by a owner with a bow AND stern thruster that came straight out of a lock ( I'm on a private mooring some 8ft in from the lock right below it , impossible to hit if you come straight out the lock )

[JDR]

Playing Devil's advocate taking a long term view is it quicker to use a single gate then wait twenty minutes for a lock with damaged bottom gates to fill or use both gates which seal properly and allow the lock to be filled in ten minutes or less?

[Guest]

That was a tongue in cheek comment .

 

Fairy nuff - one does tend to find it hard to discriminate between the serious unjustified generic anti hire boat comments on here and those made in jest.

[NB Lola]

Ditto , well said .

Ditto here too!

Edited September 19, 2013 by NB Lola

[Gingerbeer]

I've no doubt I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but aren't there a couple of locks on the K&A where official notices request boaters to refill the lock after use and leave top paddles open. I seem to recollect that the reason for this is because the occupants of the now privately owned lock cottages objected to the sound of falling water into an empty lock at night. Or did I dream it?

 

If you don't like the sound of water then why move next to it? These snobby dits are the very reason all NB need to come with air horns. Just to let those living next to the canal that you are on your way.

[Gingerbeer]

Had to finish all the pages before making a comment but two questions come to mind.

 

1. Why assume it was a widebeam that left both gates open? It could have just been one of those "don't get near my boat or you will scrape the paint off" owners who just opened both to protect their boat.

 

2. If there are so many boaters from all over the country using the locks and some have different rules, then why doesn't the CRT makes signs for each lock, the first of several locks in a row, or at both ends of a waterway letting boaters know whether or not to close both gates or just one gate. At least with a sign you have a slight chance of someone reading it. This way if something is left open, you can chalk it up to laziness, being a moron, illiterate, or for some...it must have been a widebeam.

[Simon (Hawksmoor)]

 

I have also heard it said that if a lock wall is leaking, so that a void is opening up behind (which eventually causes collapses etc), then leaving the lock empty reduces the rate of deterioration. I don't quite follow the logic of that - I would have thought the scouring damage is done each time a lock is emptied or filled, so extra emptying would not be helpful.

 

This is an argument used on the Basingstoke Canal - a canal that is very underused.

However the down-side of leaving the lock empty (on a little used canal like the BC) is that the lower gates dry out and warp.

The lower gates on many of the BC locks leak like a sieve.

 

 

I am in favour of leaving gates open when you leave. But as the accepted norm on the canals is to close them, I close them.

It would just upset too many people to do otherwise.

[Guest]

Had to finish all the pages before making a comment but two questions come to mind.

 

1. Why assume it was a widebeam that left both gates open? It could have just been one of those "don't get near my boat or you will scrape the paint off" owners who just opened both to protect their boat.

 

2. If there are so many boaters from all over the country using the locks and some have different rules, then why doesn't the CRT makes signs for each lock, the first of several locks in a row, or at both ends of a waterway letting boaters know whether or not to close both gates or just one gate. At least with a sign you have a slight chance of someone reading it. This way if something is left open, you can chalk it up to laziness, being a moron, illiterate, or for some...it must have been a widebeam.

 

Normally an individual lock will have a sign indicating what state to leave paddles and gates in if it differs from all paddles down all gates closed. Unless a sign says something different I normally just drop all paddles and unless a boat is approaching and is clearly wanting to enter the lock close all the gates too.

 

Beeston lock on the Trent and the flood lock at Sawley are two that spring to mind that have these.

Edited September 19, 2013 by The Dog House

[Gingerbeer]

 

Normally an individual lock will have a sign indicating what state to leave paddles and gates in if it differs from all paddles down all gates closed. Unless a sign says something different I normally just drop all paddles and unless a boat is approaching and is clearly wanting to enter the lock close all the gates too.

 

Beeston lock on the Trent and the flood lock at Sawley are two that spring to mind that have these.

 

Good to know.

[Rusty Shackleford]

We always close the gates, we assumed that is the right thing to do, it even mentions it specifically in the boaters handbook. Sometimes they spring back, sometimes you have to guess and wait if an oncomming boat wants to use the lock or moor up. Not much of a problem really. Now boats that only open one gate.........

[GUMPY]

Best practice is to leave the gates open

Accepted practice is to close them

[Mac of Cygnet]

The last time this was discussed at length, it reached 187 posts, and Athy had the last word.

 

Does this one have the legs? Who will be last to totter over the line?

 

Personally my eyes glazed over after 10 posts.

[RickH]

Had to finish all the pages before making a comment but two questions come to mind.

 

1. Why assume it was a widebeam that left both gates open? It could have just been one of those "don't get near my boat or you will scrape the paint off" owners who just opened both to protect their boat.

 

2. If there are so many boaters from all over the country using the locks and some have different rules, then why doesn't the CRT makes signs for each lock, the first of several locks in a row, or at both ends of a waterway letting boaters know whether or not to close both gates or just one gate. At least with a sign you have a slight chance of someone reading it. This way if something is left open, you can chalk it up to laziness, being a moron, illiterate, or for some...it must have been a widebeam.

It was !

[Steilsteven]

As a single-hander I can see the logic of leaving gates open, really I can. However, if you feel strongly enough about it to consider ignoring the rules, you should be lobbying CaRT to change the rules, not just doing whatever pleases you. If YOU are leaving gates open whilst 99% close them then YOU are being selfish and anti-social. It's quite simple really, you are getting the benefit of not having to close gates whilst also getting the benefit of having others close the gates ahead of you. In other words, taking without giving. It's not about blindly following rules for me, it's about having a level playing field for all boaters.

 

I could take the same attitude as the 'gates-open brigade' on here. Then I wouldn't have to get back off the boat when leaving a lock in order to shut gates. But until such time as that becomes standard practise, doing this would tip the balance unfairly in my favour. I'm not prepared to be that selfish.

 

Obviously, when the local rules say to leave gates open, that's entirely different.

Another point which was made to me by a regular holiday boater is that you shouldn't assume that there's an equal chance of the next boat coming in either direction. Hire bases tend to have fixed changeover days which means that on those days, there's a steady stream of boats all heading off the same way, and then coming back the same way a week later. I've never hired but I been the beneficiary of this when going against the flow, it just never occured to me before.

It's not rules, it's blanket guidance for people who can't think for themselves and make sound judgements in differing situations.

What is the point of closing all gates and leaving paddles up as mentioned above for instance?

Surely, the request should just be to leave a paddle up? Closing gates has become something of an obsession over the years to the extent that I've had people close gates when I was approaching a lock.

 

Sometimes I close gates, sometimes I don't, it depends on the circumstances. I like to think I have the intelligence to make a sound judgement rather than blindly follow, what someone thinks are, rules.

 

Keith

[Ex- Member]

It's not rules, it's blanket guidance for people who can't think for themselves and make sound judgements in differing situations.

What is the point of closing all gates and leaving paddles up as mentioned above for instance?

Surely, the request should just be to leave a paddle up? Closing gates has become something of an obsession over the years to the extent that I've had people close gates when I was approaching a lock.

 

Sometimes I close gates, sometimes I don't, it depends on the circumstances. I like to think I have the intelligence to make a sound judgement rather than blindly follow, what someone thinks are, rules.

 

Keith

 

Hi Keith

 

Well put sir, have a greenie LOL

 

An open mind as well as an open lock gate

[Sir Nibble]

I once stopped below BOA lock in pouring rain. The lock was set for me but gates close. I went up, across the road and opened them then trudged back to the boat. Someone had closed them again! So off I went again but the well meaning someone had gone so I opened them again and once more returned to the boat, cast off and motored gently toward the lock. THE BLOODY GATES WERE BEING CLOSED AGAIN! I leant on my horn but no response so I used the boat to push them open. No, these gates do NOT close on their own. The only reason I close gates is because I've had enough of self important know-nothings whining about it.

[Doorman]

That was most likely the binmens excuse. who left folks gates open for the baker or postman that might not have bin yet.

With all right and due respect, that's a rubbish theory if ever I'd heard of two.....!!