Newbie needs help!!!!

[suec7566]

Hi there,

My name is Sue and i am a newbie, i.e. never had a boat before, i have tried to do as much homework as possible but lack experience.

 

I have just been to see a beautiful modernized Bantock Butty 70ft x 7ft.

it is great inside but hasn't been out of the water for 10 years, it cruised last year but hasn't been moved since.

It is moored in a place that is perfect for me, but i do want to go cruising next spring.

 

I do intend to have a survey done, so can anyone give me any info about these boats before i talk money with the owner.

 

I am a little bit like the proverbial 'duck out of water'.

 

Thanx

[Avril]

Hi Sue, just read your post, I,m afraid I can't help at all - I'm in exactly the same position as you but wanted you to know you are not the only one who is inexperienced, I am about to purchase my first n/b and can't decide whether to forge ahead now and have my first taste of life afloat in the winter or try and curb my enthusiasm and wait for spring! everyone seems really helpful on the site but the more posts I read, the more I realise how much there is to learn - anyway, good luck with your purchase.

[grahame r]

I think the first question to ask is does it have an engine? Butties are the unpowered "trailers" pulled by motorised boats. Its quite possible it's had an engine fitted but without one you won't be doing much cruising.

[suec7566]

Hi Avril,

Good to know i am not the only one having sleepless nights!!!

I started off by thinking that i didnt care about the the inside but the outside had to be in good order, now, i have found a lovely boat in a nice mooring, but wont know until i have the survey done if i am letting myself in for problems, being that the boat is so old.

Anyway, good luck with YOUR purchase and perhaps see you around.

 

By the way,in my opinion, if you find a boat you like, dont hang around, prices might go up by next year.

Sue

[Midnight Rider]

Hello Sue --- welcome to the Forum.

 

I found the boat on E Bay -- just to check whether it had a motor (it does). It certainly looks good from the inside photos, but of course it's the hull that really matters.

 

I can't help much with a boat of that age, but I'm sure that others will be along with good advice. Good luck.

[suec7566]

Hi there,

 

I am attaching the details of the boat, what do you think?

 

The cabin top is constructed from one inch thick marine ply with a covering of 3mm aluminium sheet. The hull is constructed from iron sides with a wooden bottom that was covered in 6mm steel several years ago. The original wooden rudder ahas been replaced with a welded aluminium copy.The engine is a 3.8 letre British Leyland diesel with a 160 PRM hydraulic gearbox driving a 24X22 inch propeller. The hull was built in approx between 1875-1895 it was first converted in the late 70's It had a steel bottom and footings done about 17 years ago. The current outer skin was built approx 14 years ago and the inside was refurbished 2 years ago.The boat has not been out of the water for at least 10 years so the hull is in need of a blacking and it will be needing new anodes to be attached as well.The BSC runs on until Feb 2016.The boat was given a boat registration number plate when BWB first started boat registration in the early 1980's, actual date not recalled.”

 

 

[FadeToScarlet]

It's worth getting a surveyor who is experienced with old, iron boats, as they can't easily be surveyed in the normal way with an ultrasonic thickness tester- instead, the tool is a gurt big ball pein hammer, which is used to whack it and listen to the ringing sound to work out thickness.

 

Two surveyors with plenty of experience of iron boats are Mike Carter and Trevor Whitling, but there are other people who can do it.

 

They will also measure the beam of the boat- often Bantocks and other older craft were built to be wider than 7 feet, and so you may find pinch points or locks it cannot get through, such as Hurleston bottom lock.

[bottle]

Sue, welcome

 

Cannot advise on the boat as it a very special type of boat to own and throw money at.

 

Just one comment, the mooring, is it transferable by the present boat owner or is the permission of the mooring owner required.

 

Someones word is not good enough, you need it writing from the mooring owner.

 

No need to answer, just be aware.

 

Good luck

[suec7566]

Thanx for the advice, i will try to find some one down here. Sue.

[RLWP]

Be careful of this bit:

 

 

 

The hull was built in approx between 1875-1895

 

I haven't seen a photo of the boat, what those words usually mean is that perhaps half of the front of the boat, maybe not even that, was built a long time ago. The original boat was an open topped hull used for hauling coal and stuff. When it was ready for scrapping, someone bought it, cut it in two and made two boats out of it

 

I guess I'm saying don't let the romance of 'an old, historic boat' hide what you are actually buying

 

Richard

[system 4-50]

If you knew nothing about cars, would you buy a Vintage car?

Leave old heaps to enthusiasts - unless you have money you can afford to lose.

Run a mile.

Signed,

miserable git.

[PaddingtonBear]

Has not chrisB of this parish just bought/swapped one? might be useful to PM him.

As you have gathered this is a somewhat specialist boat, fantastic shape and therefore very efficient if you have the complete boat. I would be inclined to go and view it with someone whom knows about old boats - and this one is certainly old and thye an point out all the features, good or bad. Please don't take the current owners word as gospel as owners often don't understand what they have got themselves.

I have just had a look on ebay and I can see why you like it:) This might be a bit of a long shot but I wonder whether Michael Pinnock JNR might be persuaded to give it the once over. He has a yard and an arm in that neck of the woods but he might be a bit of a purist

[DeanS]

Hi Sue. As a newbie, I personally wouldnt recommend you buying a boat which is that old, and any issues which spring up down the line, might be specialist fixes, and costly. It's a buyers market, and there are lots of boats out there....have you had a look on ApolloDuck.co.uk ?

 

Wish you all the best

[Lady Muck]

We've a friend who moors at the same place. It's the moorings on the Lee that has all the immaculate condition working boats moored there - they take them to all of the shows, so you would be in the perfect place should you buy it and need any advice in the future.

Agree with the advice about getting mooring transfer written in writing, but knowing that yard a little bit, don't see why they wouldn't agree this. Main advice is to get a survey, which you intend to do, anyway. Also agree with other comments, a vintage boat needs extra care. We bought modern, because we have neither time, energy or money to keep up with something like that.

He has a yard and an arm in that neck of the woods

I think we might be talking about the same place. I think that's where this boat is moored.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Lady Muck

[FadeToScarlet]

Owning boats is costly, owning historic iron boats even more so. This looks like it has a fantastic, chic interior, but that is worthless and will have to be removed if any substantial hull work is needed.

 

Owning an historic boat has an appeal of its own- for example, we're currently getting in contact with the grandson of the boatman who worked our boat in the 1930s- but with that comes great challenges, including pinch points, getting stuck on piles of muck in bridge holes, etc. You also need to be aware that there are far fewer places that can work on such a boat. As a cautionary tale, a similar converted butty locally was taken to a boatyard and substantially overplated- but it's now 7'4" wide, and so can't get off the river. You will need specialist help to work on the hull of this boat.

 

This boat has a wooden cabin, and so may well have spread over the original width, which would stop you going through some locks and using some canals, such as the Llangollen or the Oxford.

 

At the end of the day, if you love the boat that much, so much so that any other pales into insignificance, then buy it - and accept that you'll pay more to maintain this piece of history that you're looking after for the next generation.

 

If you're interested at all, I think you ought to get a survey, from someone who knows iron boats like the two people I mentioned earlier, and if the hull is in reasonable condition then go for it!

 

But if you're unsure, then it may frustrate you, or if you dont find out the condition of the hull, it could be a money pit.

 

 

Having said all that, if it fires your heart like nothing else, and the hull's in good condition, and you're willing to accept the drawbacks as well as the positives of owning a piece of history, then go for it!

[Thorfast]

Interesting that the ebay ad shows all internal photos and no decent external photo. You also seem to love the inside of the boat.....but....

The boat has not been out of the water for 10 years.......!

You must get the boat out of the water for a proper hull survey and also confirm that the mooring would be transferable with the sale.

Buy with your head as well as your heart!

[suec7566]

WOW!!!

No sleep tonight!!!

[suec7566]

WOW

No sleep tonight!!!!

[DeanS]

The canal network, accommodates 6ft 10" width boats...57ft long. That size boat will apparenty go anywhere on the network. Anything bigger, and you begin to face limits. Is limitations in where you can travel, what you want?

[blackrose]

It's worth getting a surveyor who is experienced with old, iron boats, as they can't easily be surveyed in the normal way with an ultrasonic thickness tester- instead, the tool is a gurt big ball pein hammer, which is used to whack it and listen to the ringing sound to work out thickness.

 

Why is that? I've been in a dry dock working on a 113 year old riveted thames steam boat while it was being tested with an ultrasonic thickness tester.

[FadeToScarlet]

Why is that? I've been in a dry dock working on a 113 year old riveted thames steam boat while it was being tested with an ultrasonic thickness tester.

It can give erroneous readings because of the layers in the iron, apparently. We had some ultrasonic testing, but the majority was done the old fashioned way.

[PaddingtonBear]

I see Lady Muck has identified the moorings and so I would certainly have absolutely no problems in recommending them. It is the Pinnocks Arm and I don't suppose there is a better mooring in the country for a old working boat and of course if you have any trouble Michael Pinnock snr will have a 'word' , his son Michael jnr now owns the dry dock on site and he owns several immaculate Joshers as well as restoring others in the winter. I am exceedingly jealous but please have a proper survey as suggested by FtS or perhaps have Michael look at it as I suggested earlier, he is seriously proper but might not want the responsibility. He usually uses Jim Macdonald (Elizabeth) but he now lives near Middlewich so perhaps not an option, he might suggest someone else though. He will certsainly know th boat though if it has been moored there for tha last years.

James is right btw as you can get a false reading due to rust forming between the rivetted plates. You can test a single thickness in this way though

[blackrose]

I hate that word "newbie". When I was on the Thames at Reading a few months ago I was looking for somewhere safe to leave my boat for a few days while I went back to work. The plan was to go up the K&A to Bristol but the river was in flood and Fobney lock was impassable. I was walking around that basin before you get to Blakes lock (at back of Toys r Us) and met one of the owners of a boat moored there. They were all semi-permanently moored alternative types but this bloke seemed nice enough and he'd said he'd look after my boat. Suddenly this other new-age idiot came out of his boat and shouted at me "Are you a newbie mate?" and without even waiting for an answer he shouted "F*cking newbie!" and started laughing loudly. When he'd finished I said "I've been living on boats for 10 years." He just grunted and went back into his boat. (New-age judgementalist!)

[PaddingtonBear]

I totally agree Blackrose, the cutesy word 'newbie' should be banned from the forum

[Lady Muck]

Alf at Picketts Lock is getting on a bit now, so he seldom comes out of his cottage when we work through.

For the first five years we owned this boat and worked though the lock, he'd say, 'is it your first time, love?'