Alfred Matty's waste phosphorous traffic and boats

[Laurence Hogg]

Many of us will remember the waste phosphorous boats on the run to Rattlechain colliery tip but it seems someone wants to know more!

 

http://www.whatliesbeneathrattlechainlagoon.org.uk/?page_id=163

Edited September 5, 2013 by Laurence Hogg

[dave moore]

I remember it well. Boating with Tony Phillips on Tay, a Clayton gas boat, we were passing through Oldbury on the old main line in 67 or 68. Wash from the blades disturbed phosphorus waste lying on the bottom. As it met air it ignited and a layer of whitish blue smoke hung over the water. I was told that the waste was sometimes put into the cut en route to the tip via a portable pump, thus speeding up unloading time later. Many old workings were dumps in those days. Mine workings near the Dudley No 2 received many tanker loads of liquid waste from the local gas works. All gone and capped over now.

 

Dave

[Hugh]

There were apocryphal tales of people who fell into the canal having their clothes spontaneously ignite from the phosphorus as they dried out.

 

From a more historic viewpoint, what marvellous maps on that website, at a hugely detailed scale. Do we know where they come from?

 

Now, I wonder if I can find my pictures of that traffic . . .

 

 

Hugh

[Heartland]

Aside, the word Rattlechain, is a term for a pit chain made of flat iron chains, used for raising minerals from the pit.

 

Ray Shill

[Laurence Hogg]

The first motor regulary employed on this trade was "Maureen" a small Rickmansworth motor (GUCCCo "Electra"). She was docked extensivly in around 1973 and from then on it seemed to be in the hands of the Large Northwich "Stratford" and the Large Woolwich "Aldgate". When I photographed "Aldgate" in 1978 she was in a terrible state from the phosphorous waste caked in the hold and seemed written off then.

This is "Maureen" being docked on Waltons slip:

 

 

When we raised "Monnow" from the bottom of the Crow (Titford locks) in 1978 we got seriously covered in tar, however after cleaning up we suffered phosphorous burns to our legs and arms from the waste, the canal there at that time was still adistinct light green.

[MtB]

Wonderful tales you have to tell, Lorry.

 

MtB

[RLWP]

The bottom of The Crow still smells of tar if you stir the water up well. I'll look out for phosphorous next time.

 

I now understand why the BCNS issues their warnings about falling in

 

Richard

[johnthebridge]

The first motor regulary employed on this trade was "Maureen" a small Rickmansworth motor (GUCCCo "Electra"). She was docked extensivly in around 1973 and from then on it seemed to be in the hands of the Large Northwich "Stratford" and the Large Woolwich "Aldgate". When I photographed "Aldgate" in 1978 she was in a terrible state from the phosphorous waste caked in the hold and seemed written off then.

This is "Maureen" being docked on Waltons slip:

 

 

When we raised "Monnow" from the bottom of the Crow (Titford locks) in 1978 we got seriously covered in tar, however after cleaning up we suffered phosphorous burns to our legs and arms from the waste, the canal there at that time was still adistinct light green.

When I see this sort of photo Laurence, the nostalgia for me is almost too much to bear. You can smell that picture. Wasn't the BCN then a place that defies description for those people who weren't lucky enough to see it as it was? Did you ever manage to sort out any more photos of the yard or Vulcan for me please? I'd love to see any you have.

Bostin'!

John.

[RLWP]

When I see this sort of photo Laurence, the nostalgia for me is almost too much to bear. You can smell that picture. Wasn't the BCN then a place that defies description for those people who weren't lucky enough to see it as it was? Did you ever manage to sort out any more photos of the yard or Vulcan for me please? I'd love to see any you have.

Bostin'!

John.

 

I find them almost unbearably sad. Likewise, Gas Street to Old Tun somehow isn't the same without the church on the bridge

 

Ahh, nostalgia

 

Richard

[pete harrison]

 

I find them almost unbearably sad. Likewise, Gas Street to Old Tun somehow isn't the same without the church on the bridge

 

Ahh, nostalgia

 

Richard

And Broad Street Bridge is only a fraction of what it used to be prior to the 'modernisation' of this area. I much prefered Gas Street Basin pre 1984 (when the wooden jettys were installed), and arguably pre 1975ish when the offside warehousing was demolished (I can just about remember the offside warehousing). The building of the James Brindley pub destroyed Gas Street Basin and shortly afterwards most of the residential former working boats left, and the character has never been the same since.

 

edit - change date from 1982 to 1984 (central Birmingham was drained in the winter of 1984/5 from Granville Street Bridge to St. Vincent Street Bridge and following bank repairs the jettys were installed)

Edited September 6, 2013 by pete harrison

[monkeyhanger]

I remember it well. Boating with Tony Phillips on Tay, a Clayton gas boat, we were passing through Oldbury on the old main line in 67 or 68. Wash from the blades disturbed phosphorus waste lying on the bottom. As it met air it ignited and a layer of whitish blue smoke hung over the water. I was told that the waste was sometimes put into the cut en route to the tip via a portable pump, thus speeding up unloading time later. Many old workings were dumps in those days. Mine workings near the Dudley No 2 received many tanker loads of liquid waste from the local gas works. All gone and capped over now.

 

Dave

When I had my boat built at Allen's yard, just along the canal, in the early 1990s, Bob Allen told me a tale that when they dredged the "chemical arm" as he called it, that they had to have a team of fire engines present as the water kept catching fire!

[onionbargee]

i say get bottle digging and metal detecting in that dredging tip up the Gower arm on the map. Might be a gold mine !

[Richard T]

Many of us will remember the waste phosphorous boats on the run to Rattlechain colliery tip but it seems someone wants to know more!

 

http://www.whatliesbeneathrattlechainlagoon.org.uk/?page_id=163

I think we should be wary of the intentions of the web site. The way information is being sought makes me think that they may be preparing a legal case against British Waterways and their successor (CaRT). This could be quite damaging to CaRT as the cost of mounting a defence would be very high. Please bear this in mind before posting further useful information.

[Laurence Hogg]

I think we should be wary of the intentions of the web site. The way information is being sought makes me think that they may be preparing a legal case against British Waterways and their successor (CaRT). This could be quite damaging to CaRT as the cost of mounting a defence would be very high. Please bear this in mind before posting further useful information.

 

Good point but I think Albright & Wilson as the source of the trade would be the target, BW only provided the route of carriage and were in no way responsible for what went into the lagoon imho. BW certainly at the time however neglected the massive pollution of the waterway in that area, something which today would seem impossible to imagine. However there are still today very highly toxic portions of canal on the BCN which are just being left "as is" due to the cost of removal.

[Max Sinclair]

Black Jack, who never washed, on Gifford fell in while returning from Wolverhampton. His elderly parents couldn't lift him out so they put a line under his armpits and around the helm, then towed him back to Claytons yard. When the ambulance men got him out he was white not his usual black

On one occasion .the phosphorous reached the waste oil Phillips Cycles dumped in Smethwick and ignited it. The fire brigade managed to put out the flames as they reached the lock gates

I coiled a wet rope on Vesta's foredeck and about an hour later it burst into flames so went back in the canal until I could wash it with fresh water.

[Heartland]

I have also been told about phosphorus igniting in various canal locations. The canal was also a means of bringing the various phosphorus ores/ compounds to Oldbury and carriers such as Fellows Morton & Clayton, Severn & Canal Carrying, Bridgewater Trustees and Grand Junction Canal Carrying (dependent on date) were engaged in this trade which usually went up the Crow to their basin there and finished products such as the phosphorus and other by-products were collected at the top end of the Chemical arm. The byproducts included sulphates for manure, if I recall (without checking my notes). Some of the phosphorus went to match making. It was the Albrights that perfected the means of making Red Phosphorus in this country. Prior to this match making used yellow phosphorus, a much more unhealthy substance. When I wrote Workshop to the World, I mentioned the Birmingham Match Makers and the sad effect it had on some of their workers (mostly children). Constant contact with yellow phosphorus caused a bone disease where the bones were eventually destroyed. People in their twenties died from the effects of this cruel affliction. Red Phosphorus proved to be a more safer element to handle.

Phosphorus in the hands of the chemists went on to be put to many more uses, including some in warfare. The Heath Town Factory was built during the First World War to assemble shells with a phosphorus content. After the war that factory was taken over by Manders to make paint.

 

Ray Shill