FEDUP.

[tafelberg]

Right then

 

I have nothing to do with ANY leaflets printed about the roving mooring permits in Uxbridge/Cowley.

 

I cannot believe I am being accused of printing leaflets or anything else.

 

I just want C&RT to remove the temporary fence outside my boat that has been there for 3 weeks. I want them to say to me that I can use the mooring rings they took months and months to install.

 

DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS MOORING PERMIT THING. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, IF C&RT GIVE THOSE PERMITS THATS FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO PAY £2000 A YEAR FOR THE SAME THING THAT PEOPLE 500 YARDS ROUND THE CORNER GET FOR FREE.

 

I HAVE NOTHING against other boaters, I just think C&RT need to sort their act out.

 

I WISH TO BE LEFT ALONE. thank you.

 

 

 

 

[DeanS]

erm..just a thought...fully agree with you. ....but...why dont you move 500yards round the corner... You'd save a fortune.

[Starcoaster]

I've missed these accusations, got a link?

[ChimneyChain]

erm..just a thought...fully agree with you. ....but...why dont you move 500yards round the corner... You'd save a fortune.

From what I've heard (just passed on word of mouth from a boater at the meeting last week), you can't just give up your mooring and move around the corner on to a cheaper, "roaming" mooring. These terms are solely reserved for those who have existed in this area for some time, with no mooring.

 

Darren

[jenlyn]

Right then

 

I have nothing to do with ANY leaflets printed about the roving mooring permits in Uxbridge/Cowley.

 

I cannot believe I am being accused of printing leaflets or anything else.

 

I just want C&RT to remove the temporary fence outside my boat that has been there for 3 weeks. I want them to say to me that I can use the mooring rings they took months and months to install.

 

DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS MOORING PERMIT THING. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, IF C&RT GIVE THOSE PERMITS THATS FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO PAY £2000 A YEAR FOR THE SAME THING THAT PEOPLE 500 YARDS ROUND THE CORNER GET FOR FREE.

 

I HAVE NOTHING against other boaters, I just think C&RT need to sort their act out.

 

I WISH TO BE LEFT ALONE. thank you.

 

 

 

 

Why on earth have you brought this statement onto a forum, to debate possibly? Or to further your anti ccer campaign? Or to cover your butt for writing a little tantrum piece to one cub founder last week?

Grow up man, pick your toys up and put them back in the playbox, and please, stop trying to make mountains out of molehills......

[cotswoldsman]

Right then

 

I have nothing to do with ANY leaflets printed about the roving mooring permits in Uxbridge/Cowley.

 

I cannot believe I am being accused of printing leaflets or anything else.

 

I just want C&RT to remove the temporary fence outside my boat that has been there for 3 weeks. I want them to say to me that I can use the mooring rings they took months and months to install.

 

DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS MOORING PERMIT THING. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, IF C&RT GIVE THOSE PERMITS THATS FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO PAY £2000 A YEAR FOR THE SAME THING THAT PEOPLE 500 YARDS ROUND THE CORNER GET FOR FREE.

 

I HAVE NOTHING against other boaters, I just think C&RT need to sort their act out.

 

I WISH TO BE LEFT ALONE. thank you.

 

 

 

 

For free? Have I missed something?

[tafelberg]

I'm saying nothing else.

 

As I said just leave me alone.

 

 

"Why on earth have you brought this statement onto a forum, to debate possibly? Or to further your anti ccer campaign? Or to cover your butt for writing a little tantrum piece to one cub founder last week?

Grow up man, pick your toys up and put them back in the playbox, and please, stop trying to make mountains out of molehills..."

 

Because Mr Jenlyn, I have been accused of doing something I have not done. I do not have any ANTI ccer campaign. I just want to be left alone. As I said before. I have nothing against other boaters. You do what you like.

 

 

I have no campaign against anyone. End of. I just don't like being accused of what I have not done. I acknowledge the apology given that is the end of the matter.

Edited April 29, 2013 by tafelberg

[luctor et emergo]

Posting an inflammatory post on a popular forum has to be one of the better ways to ensure to be left alone.

 

Toys? Check

Pram? Check

 

Popcorn? Check

[jenlyn]

I'm saying nothing else.

 

As I said just leave me alone.

 

 

"Why on earth have you brought this statement onto a forum, to debate possibly? Or to further your anti ccer campaign? Or to cover your butt for writing a little tantrum piece to one cub founder last week?

Grow up man, pick your toys up and put them back in the playbox, and please, stop trying to make mountains out of molehills..."

 

Because Mr Jenlyn, I have been accused of doing something I have not done. I do not have any ANTI ccer campaign. I just want to be left alone. As I said before. I have nothing against other boaters. You do what you like.

 

 

I have no campaign against anyone. End of. I just don't like being accused of what I have not done. I acknowledge the apology given that is the end of the matter.

So if you aknowledged the apology louise gave you (face to face), why then bring it onto a forum behind her back?

[tafelberg]

Jenlyn that was before she gave an apology. Louise was very gracious actually. I have discussed my feelings with Louise before this. I have never been anti CCer, or the mooring process in progress. I just want to see C&RT being fair. which they are not.

 

I resent you accusing me of having an anti-ccer campaign. It is simply not true. Even though Louise has apologised for knocking on my boat and having a go at me for something I have not done, you are now doing the same thing.

 

I did in fact tell Louise that I had posted this to the forum when she came back and apologised.

 

 

I know how quickly rumours spread round the canal. I am glad that my position is now out there to put people straight.

 

I will add that I don't remember writing a tantrum piece to a cub founder member. The only person I have spoken to is Louise and that was a few weeks ago. Again, false accusations I think?

Edited April 29, 2013 by tafelberg

[junior]

I've been reluctant to make any comments on this 'roving permit' stuff i've been reading about on FB, primarily the CUB group as i am not aware of the full facts. However i wondered if someone could give me the facts to stop me thinking the way i am?

 

As far as i am aware there are and always have been 2 options re. licensing. Either have a home mooring or declare as a CC'er. Is this correct? The argument on the CUB Facebook group has often been that there are no moorings/not enough available in that area.

 

I have seen quite a few CRT moorings in the Cowley/Uxbridge area become available on the CRT auction page. When somebody makes the CUB Facebook group aware of these vacancies, they then start saying that the problem is that they are too expensive and people shouldn't have to pay that much. So what is it? There aren't any, or there are but they can't afford them?

 

Again this is based on me not being in possession of the full facts but from the outside it looks like CRT have said "Ok, so you refuse/cant afford one of our moorings, and you don't want to comply with the CC'ing guidelines that you signed up to. Instead of taking action against you like we do against others, we will bring in this special permit for you".

 

So what i would like to know is, if i want to move to the Cowley/Uxebridge area (which i do) how do i get one of these permits? Because i don't see why i should pay £2000 for a CRT mooring if other people don't have to.

 

Can somebody please tell me if i have got this all massively wrong?

[jenlyn]

I've been reluctant to make any comments on this 'roving permit' stuff i've been reading about on FB, primarily the CUB group as i am not aware of the full facts. However i wondered if someone could give me the facts to stop me thinking the way i am?

 

As far as i am aware there are and always have been 2 options re. licensing. Either have a home mooring or declare as a CC'er. Is this correct? The argument on the CUB Facebook group has often been that there are no moorings/not enough available in that area.

 

I have seen quite a few CRT moorings in the Cowley/Uxbridge area become available on the CRT auction page. When somebody makes the CUB Facebook group aware of these vacancies, they then start saying that the problem is that they are too expensive and people shouldn't have to pay that much. So what is it? There aren't any, or there are but they can't afford them?

 

Again this is based on me not being in possession of the full facts but from the outside it looks like CRT have said "Ok, so you refuse/cant afford one of our moorings, and you don't want to comply with the CC'ing guidelines that you signed up to. Instead of taking action against you like we do against others, we will bring in this special permit for you".

 

So what i would like to know is, if i want to move to the Cowley/Uxebridge area (which i do) how do i get one of these permits? Because i don't see why i should pay £2000 for a CRT mooring if other people don't have to.

 

Can somebody please tell me if i have got this all massively wrong?

Its not as simple as it seems. I can assure yoou that cub has been bidding on those (empty) moorings for people without internet. £2000 is not the going rate for a linear mooring in that area.

The rest of your question can be answered by your attendance to any of our meetings. Your more than welcome to come along.

[luctor et emergo]

No, you don't. Have that wrong.

 

Edit to clarify that my comment is not to Jenlyn's post.

 

Complying with the current rules is really easy. Really easy, so easy, it should not need explaining. Move your boat every couple of weeks. Go a little further than the local bridge. Say just to the next bridge. Then there is no problem. Drop the crap. You buy a boat to live on a floating item that needs to be moved about a bit occassionaly.the rules are there, and not difficult to understand. If you don't like moving your boat, get a perm mooring, or buy a caravan

Almost every body who I know here, moved onto the canal knowing the rules. Don't complain when you get pulled up on them.

Edited April 29, 2013 by luctor et emergo

[cotswoldsman]

I've been reluctant to make any comments on this 'roving permit' stuff i've been reading about on FB, primarily the CUB group as i am not aware of the full facts. However i wondered if someone could give me the facts to stop me thinking the way i am?

 

As far as i am aware there are and always have been 2 options re. licensing. Either have a home mooring or declare as a CC'er. Is this correct? The argument on the CUB Facebook group has often been that there are no moorings/not enough available in that area.

 

I have seen quite a few CRT moorings in the Cowley/Uxbridge area become available on the CRT auction page. When somebody makes the CUB Facebook group aware of these vacancies, they then start saying that the problem is that they are too expensive and people shouldn't have to pay that much. So what is it? There aren't any, or there are but they can't afford them?

 

Again this is based on me not being in possession of the full facts but from the outside it looks like CRT have said "Ok, so you refuse/cant afford one of our moorings, and you don't want to comply with the CC'ing guidelines that you signed up to. Instead of taking action against you like we do against others, we will bring in this special permit for you".

 

So what i would like to know is, if i want to move to the Cowley/Uxebridge area (which i do) how do i get one of these permits? Because i don't see why i should pay £2000 for a CRT mooring if other people don't have to.

 

Can somebody please tell me if i have got this all massively wrong?

I seem to have missed seeing the £2,000 moorings for my sake and maybe the people who think they can get a mooring for £2,000 in Uxbridge area could you please provide a link.

I think CRT should be congratulated in talking to boaters to solve a problem that we have all known about for years.

[nicknorman]

I've been reluctant to make any comments on this 'roving permit' stuff i've been reading about on FB, primarily the CUB group as i am not aware of the full facts. However i wondered if someone could give me the facts to stop me thinking the way i am?

 

As far as i am aware there are and always have been 2 options re. licensing. Either have a home mooring or declare as a CC'er. Is this correct? The argument on the CUB Facebook group has often been that there are no moorings/not enough available in that area.

 

I have seen quite a few CRT moorings in the Cowley/Uxbridge area become available on the CRT auction page. When somebody makes the CUB Facebook group aware of these vacancies, they then start saying that the problem is that they are too expensive and people shouldn't have to pay that much. So what is it? There aren't any, or there are but they can't afford them?

 

Again this is based on me not being in possession of the full facts but from the outside it looks like CRT have said "Ok, so you refuse/cant afford one of our moorings, and you don't want to comply with the CC'ing guidelines that you signed up to. Instead of taking action against you like we do against others, we will bring in this special permit for you".

 

So what i would like to know is, if i want to move to the Cowley/Uxebridge area (which i do) how do i get one of these permits? Because i don't see why i should pay £2000 for a CRT mooring if other people don't have to.

 

Can somebody please tell me if i have got this all massively wrong?

I think (and I'm only on the distant periphery) that its a issue of Grandfather Rights. There are a bunch of non compliant boaters. However they have been so for a very long time and got used to their lifestyle without challenge, and in some (hopefully most) cases, have few other options. So to make them compliant do you either just evict them and never mind if they are homeless, or introduce a transitional process to get them compliant? The latter seems the more pragmatic approach. Hopefully the point is that the concession only applies to those extant with grandfather rights, not someone new coming along and seeing a cheap liveaboard non-CC option.

 

I post this without too much sureness of fact only because I know you will only get code and sound bites from the usual suspects!

Edited April 29, 2013 by nicknorman

[RLWP]

Anyone care to explain WTF this is about?

 

Richard

[jenlyn]

I think (and I'm only on the distant periphery) that its a issue of Grandfather Rights. There are a bunch of non compliant boaters. However they have been so for a very long time and got used to their lifestyle without challenge, and in some (hopefully most) cases, have few other options. So to make them compliant do you either just evict them and never mind if they are homeless, or introduce a transitional process to get them compliant? The latter seems the more pragmatic approach. Hopefully the point is that the concession only applies to those extant with grandfather rights, not someone new coming along and seeing a cheap liveaboard non-CC option.

I post this without too much sureness of fact only because I know you will only get code and sound bites from the usual suspects!

We are looking at grandfather rights. Most of your statement is spot on, I didnt notice you at the meeting?

[Jerra]

How would the Grandfather rights be decided? Is there a likelihood of other areas wanting/trying to follow suit?

[cotswoldsman]

I think (and I'm only on the distant periphery) that its a issue of Grandfather Rights. There are a bunch of non compliant boaters. However they have been so for a very long time and got used to their lifestyle without challenge, and in some (hopefully most) cases, have few other options. So to make them compliant do you either just evict them and never mind if they are homeless, or introduce a transitional process to get them compliant? The latter seems the more pragmatic approach. Hopefully the point is that the concession only applies to those extant with grandfather rights, not someone new coming along and seeing a cheap liveaboard non-CC option.

 

I post this without too much sureness of fact only because I know you will only get code and sound bites from the usual suspects!

Wow Nick you seem to be almost spot on. This is only stage one of a process to try and sort out a problem. A lot of people have invested a lot of time in trying to sort out this problem. There are some very strict rules that go with theses permits and they also come at a price.

[Starcoaster]

 

Anyone care to explain WTF this is about?

 

Richard

 

CRT, in consultation with CUB (Cowley and Uxbridge Boaters group), have agreed in principle the outline of a scheme to issue roving mooring permits within the area, to boaters without a home mooring who have been logged in the area for x amount of time within x amount of distance.

A small amount of the other boaters in the area who have permanent moorings are annoyed about this, as they feel that they are paying for something while others will be getting something that (they feel is) equivalent, but paying less for it.

 

One of/some of these people have been putting up posters/ distributing leaflets decrying this and saying how unfair it is with varying degrees of pique.

 

Tafelberg, who moors in Uxbridge, has been mentioned (not on this forum) as being one of these people, and has posted this thread to say that he is not.

(That's the very short version...)

Edited April 29, 2013 by Starcoaster

[luctor et emergo]

Anyone care to explain WTF this is about?

 

Richard

Don't get me started. This is a solution to pander to those who buy a boat, and don't want to move it, without a mooring. The problem is, that it will alter the actual CC rules too.

 

Anybody want to buy a boat?

[cotswoldsman]

 

How would the Grandfather rights be decided? Is there a likelihood of other areas wanting/trying to follow suit?

CRT have all the records of boats that have been in the area for a number of years.

[nicknorman]

We are looking at grandfather rights. Most of your statement is spot on, I didnt notice you at the meeting?

Living 500 miles away from London and being marina based anyway, with my interest only as an interested observer, attending didn't seem appropriate. Of course precidents set in the SE might apply elsewhere, though it doesn't seem to be a serious problem round our way.

[junior]

There are a bunch of non compliant boaters. However they have been so for a very long time and got used to their lifestyle without challenge, and in some (hopefully most) cases, have few other options. So to make them compliant do you either just evict them and never mind if they are homeless, or introduce a transitional process to get them compliant?

 

 

 

So it will be ok for me to move my boat onto the Regents Canal or the Paddington Arm of the GU, sign up to be a cc'er but have no intention of moving. When CRT come along and take action, i can ask to go into the 'Transitional phase'? I this right? Or is it going to be a case of one rule for them and one rule for everyone else?

 

They must have applied for licences within the last 12 months? On doing so they must have SIGNED to say they would comply with the CC'ing guidelines and acknowledged that if they didn't, enforcement action could be taken against them? Am i right or wrong?

 

If i am right, and they are not complying, kick em' out! Or give them a last chance. Simple as that! Don't bring in some special scheme just for them that nobody else can have access to. That is a sure fire way of creating a "them and us" on the cut. I can only see that ending one way.

[cotswoldsman]

Don't get me started. This is a solution to pander to those who buy a boat, and don't want to move it, without a mooring. The problem is, that it will alter the actual CC rules too.

 

Anybody want to buy a boat?

Having been involved in this process I must have missed the bit about CCing rules being changed can you please explain what rules are being changed?