Fatal accident at Alrewas

[Breals]

I was thinking the same as Alan. There is no mention of the tiller arm swinging at any point. He appears to have stumbled after the impact.

 

It makes sense to keep clear of the tiller when you are reversing up to a bank (as well as going into neutral well before you get near it - don't like the thought of my prop being driven into gravelly mud or concrete).

 

In normal forward motion, does the tiller present any threat? I do like to perch on the stern rail sometimes...

Edited September 26, 2006 by Breals

[bottle]

Swinging tillers,taff rails, standing in the 'wrong' position, ...................I think the major contributing factor in this fatality was that the 'prop' was turning.

 

Health and safety: ensure that 'prop' does not rotate.

 

Health and Safety do not lay down as many rules as some people think, most of the rules are just a person looking at a problem and trying to explain the safest way of carrying out that task.

 

As for the safest stern there isn't one, they all have 'problems' but used in a sensible manner these aspects can be reduced to almost nil.

[Guest]

I thought the rails on the back of a cruiser stern WERE for sitting on - it never occured to me not to, and I certainly won't now!

Likewise our old cruiser sterned boat. We sat for hours on the rail whilst steering. They were quite high, and as I am vertically challenged I could see over the cabin better.

While we don't know for sure what happened to the poor person involved, we can learn from it by studying our own habits.

[StoneHenge]

Hi all,

 

I think this thread has been a useful discussion for all of us who are either experienced or not at this old boating lark.

 

I for one, am very wary when going out, because I usually 2-3 kids on board, one of which is under 2, and so needs very careful supervision. I tend to steer within the hatch as well, which serves well to being able to take a knock and not fall over. We have a small step down, a small gap, then the doors, which is a useful gap in which to seat the little one when coming up for mooring, locks etc so he can sit snugly should we jolt a bit.

 

My husband is the 'pole' man, and this has proved useful in times of high wind or navigating a small and tight corner/gap etc.

 

However, I am always aware of what is going on, because so many different things could happen at the same time. Kids at the front (even with the safety talk and examples still see fit to poke their heads out now and then), baby at the back, hubby at any part of the boat with hook or pole in his hand, me at the back, although well tucked in, could be distracted by any number of events, so it's really a case of making sure you access the situation constantly as you go along, trying as best you can, to anticipate any potential problems hopefully before you might get to them.

 

It's not fool proof, and I think we are all learning all the time. The water is a wonderous thing, as are boats, but with obvious dangers.

 

It was a very tragic accident, one I wish, had not happened, and I think it serves as a reminder now and then not to get complacent, but still to enjoy what is a very relaxing way to spend some hours.

[blackrose]

I thought nearly everyone on the forum agreed with that kind of view and am surprised that we have nannies here too.

 

regards

Steve

 

What? Because we log onto a canal boat forum we should all adopt the same Daily Mail "anti health & safety" attitude? Sorry I can't quite understand your logic.

 

Might be a tad arrogant of you to assume that just because you are on a forum, everyone will agree with you!

Edited September 26, 2006 by blackrose

[DHutch]

Might be a tad arrogant of you to assume that just because you are on a forum, everyone will agree with you!

I have to say tho, i agree with him.

[blackrose]

I have to say tho, i agree with him.

 

Agree with whatever you like, just don't expect me to follow suit simply because we are fellow boaters.

[howardang]

Agree with whatever you like, just don't expect me to follow suit simply because we are fellow boaters.

Sad but predictable to see the discussion degenerate into the usual "playground" sniping.

 

Why, for once, can't you respect each others opinions without this slightly puerile attitude!

 

Regartds

 

Howard Anguish

[alan_fincher]

Sad but predictable to see the discussion degenerate into the usual "playground" sniping.

 

Why, for once, can't you respect each others opinions without this slightly puerile attitude!

 

Regartds

 

Howard Anguish

Well said Howard,

 

It's very sad the way so many threads seem to end up now.

 

Perhaps I've just got rose tinted spectacles, but I can't remember half as many of these unpleasant exchanges when I first joined the forum, about a year and a half back.

 

I sometimes wonder why I'm still here

[blackrose]

Well said Howard,

 

It's very sad the way so many threads seem to end up now.

 

Perhaps I've just got rose tinted spectacles, but I can't remember half as many of these unpleasant exchanges when I first joined the forum, about a year and a half back.

 

I sometimes wonder why I'm still here

 

Well, if I'm going to get called an idiot & a nanny simply for thanking someone for pointing out the dangers of misuse of a boat pole and suggesting that BW print this kind of safety info in their leaflets, then I'll give as good as I get. I never start these purile exchanges but I don't mind finishing them.

 

But you're right, I've had enough of this bollocks too. Some of you will be glad to know that from now on I'm only using the forum to ask information.

Edited September 26, 2006 by blackrose

[anhar]

Well, if I'm going to get called an idiot & a nanny for thanking someone for pointing out the dangers of misuse of a boat pole then I'll give as good as I get. I never start these purile exchanges but I don't mind finishing them.

I'm not quite sure why you had a go at me Mike, I never said anything about you at all or poles or called you any names like you say. In fact I never called anyone an idiot. My comments concerned another reader's claim that trad sterns were a nightmare for health and safety, as I explained later.

 

It was this rather extreme view that caused me to be surprised that such an opinion would be expressed here. I can't believe that many people on the canals or on the forum would agree with it. Trads are amongst the most popular designs.

 

regards

Steve

Edited September 26, 2006 by anhar

[blackrose]

I'm not quite sure why you had a go at me Mike, I never said anything about you at all or poles or called you any names like you say. In fact I never called anyone an idiot. My comments concerned another reader's claim that trad sterns were a nightmare for health and safety, as I explained later.

 

It was this rather extreme view that caused me to be surprised that such an opinion would be expressed here. I can't believe that many people on the canals or on the forum would agree with it. Trads are amongst the most popular designs.

 

regards

Steve

 

Who said I was having a go at you?

Edited September 26, 2006 by blackrose

[weeble]

 

In the same way that I always tell any family or guests visiting my boat to keep their arms & legs within the boat's profile when we approach bridges & locks, I would also now tell anyone who I asked to use my boat pole how to use it properly. I would rather be a heath & safety bore for 2 mins at the beginning of a boat trip than wondering after an accident if it would have made any difference had I gone over a couple of points first.

 

I'm with you on this one, especially with youngsters on board. After a near scalding incident, the other thing I warn about is how hot the water gets (from the hot tap) once the engine has warmed up. "Common sense" to you and me maybe, but not so to those who have no understanding of a Calorifier! Sorry if some think this is over cautious.

 

Mike

[TeeELL]

Well, I have read through the comments on this thread and I shall add my twopenneth then stand back and watcg the result. Firstly I am H&S qualified having completed the 'Managing Safely' and 'Risk Assessment' courses, secondly I have been steering narrow boats on canal holidays since the early 70's. Having spent the last 2 weeks almost exclusively steering 'ELEMIAH' (an extended trad) I have every intention of fitting and using seats at the rear of the boat BUT I also have every intention of moving to stand in front of the tiller arm on occasions where it is warrented - tight/blind corners, locks, tunnels and reversing etc. I shall use common sense and sit or stand as appropriate and you all have (or potentially have) exactly the same option.

[anhar]

Who said I was having a go at you?

Apologies if you didn't, I thought you had when you suggested I read the Daily Mail , (probably the worst thing of which I've ever been accused in my life and laughable if you knew me) and made some other comments concerned with my surprise that anybody here would think trads were an H&S risk.

 

regards

Steve

[bottle]

 

Thermostatic mixing valve

 

Hi Mike

 

May I suggest you fit one of these available at screwfix

Edited September 26, 2006 by bottle

[Hairy-Neil]

We have far too much H&S nonsense these days trying to rule our lives in every area.

 

We all know the often ludicrous lengths to which these laws sometimes go in order to prevent people injuring themselves. The effect is that loads of everyday things that everyone took for granted many years ago are either now banned or require a 19 man team of safety experts to be present before they can be done, thus effectively banning them anyway.

 

 

 

There is a big difference between education and simple instruction, over law. I don't want health and safety to jump in and insist we follow their rediculous rules..

 

I used to be a steerer on the BW heritage boats, responsible for their safe operation and and the crew. Then the rules changed.......

 

To be a steerer now one has to pass an exam, even men who were born on the canals and worked pairs of loaded boats back in the days of carrying had to have the assessment. What I want to know is who tests the tester's tester?

 

Now there must also be a first aider on board, there are rules on crew numbers and they operate a strict no alcohol policy. I Passed NB Atlas when I was out in August, one of the boats I used to steer, and noticed all the crew were wearing buoyancy aids.......

 

The amusing thing is one of the reasons for BW setting up the heritage fleet is to preserve the old boating traditions.

 

I voted with my feet.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Hairy-Neil

[DHutch]

I used to be a steerer on the BW heritage boats, responsible for their safe operation and and the crew. Then the rules changed.......

 

To be a steerer now one has to pass an exam, even men who were born on the canals and worked pairs of loaded boats back in the days of carrying had to have the assessment. What I want to know is who tests the tester's tester?

 

Now there must also be a first aider on board, there are rules on crew numbers and they operate a strict no alcohol policy. I Passed NB Atlas when I was out in August, one of the boats I used to steer, and noticed all the crew were wearing buoyancy aids.......

 

The amusing thing is one of the reasons for BW setting up the heritage fleet is to preserve the old boating traditions.

 

I voted with my feet.

Its very sad isnt it.

 

Im not a fan of taking risks for the sake of it, infact, im actally a naterally cautious bloke, but some of the stuff you see is just rediuclas beyond belief.

- The tunnel keeper at the harecastle couldnt help but have a little giggle when he had to read out "no nakid flames are allowed in the tunnel" and we're there with a 40kilowatt raging fire gently simmering away ready for the off!

 

 

 

Daniel

[Hairy-Neil]

Its very sad isnt it.

 

Im not a fan of taking risks for the sake of it, infact, im actally a naterally cautious bloke, but some of the stuff you see is just rediuclas beyond belief.

- The tunnel keeper at the harecastle couldnt help but have a little giggle when he had to read out "no nakid flames are allowed in the tunnel" and we're there with a 40kilowatt raging fire gently simmering away ready for the off!

Daniel

 

Some years ago steam narrowboat President was held at Harecastle Tunnel by an over zealous relief tunnel keeper. The crew stood their ground and were insistent that they should be allowed through. Common sense prevailed once higher authority became involved. Had the President's crew kowtowed to the initial ban it is very likely that steam boats would have been permanently excluded.

[DHutch]

Yeah, a number of years ago there was a bit of a woo-har about it, which included several boats being towed though by eather a BW diesal tug, or one of the other diesal boats going though at the time.

 

However, they have now sorted it, and we are allowed to steam though under our own power.

- We have gone north twice in the last 12months, where we were put though last, so as to be downstream of the other boats.

- Presumably as/when we take her though southbound, we will lead? NOt sure, logistaicaly we not need to go south though the tunnel recently.

 

 

Daniel

[Yoda]

I used to be a steerer on the BW heritage boats, responsible for their safe operation and and the crew. Then the rules changed.......

 

To be a steerer now one has to pass an exam, even men who were born on the canals and worked pairs of loaded boats back in the days of carrying had to have the assessment. What I want to know is who tests the tester's tester?

 

Now there must also be a first aider on board, there are rules on crew numbers and they operate a strict no alcohol policy. I Passed NB Atlas when I was out in August, one of the boats I used to steer, and noticed all the crew were wearing buoyancy aids.......

 

The amusing thing is one of the reasons for BW setting up the heritage fleet is to preserve the old boating traditions.

 

I voted with my feet.

 

It goes like this. Personal medical £75, First aid course £75, BM3 course £460, just to do voluntry work.

[peasant]

having read all the previous issues here I wonder if the cause was too much speed?canaltime boats at sawley seem to go faster in reverse than I do forwards.This is usually when the crew are seeing their first experience of being at the rear of a boat.i appreciate where all the H&S issues are at but if this boat had been going slower and been able to pull into the bank,who knows?

[mykaskin]

- If you have access to a dencent towpath, a pair of you can bowhawl her for several miles with very little affort at all. Maybe you should try it oneday!

Daniel

 

I already have - me and a mate pulled Shoestring (60ft residential boat) 4 miles along the canal. Did I mention this was with ice on the canal? It doesn't make it easy!

 

Mike

 

ps. This was because my engine was being repared (out of the boat!) and I had to get the boat back to where the engine was.