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Cheese please

By Cheese please
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Cheese please Explorer

Cheese please

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Has anyone got a list of fuel sellers that will not sell at 0/100% . We are entitled as a legit trading boat and as an electrically propelled boat to buy fuel without the EU leisure propulsion tax.

Stone boat builders won't budge from 60/40 ( wish I had filled first) so we are now up the Calden without a paddle so to speak. A list of uncooperative fuel sellers would be good to be able to plan journeys.

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Athy Veteran II

AthyDonate to Canal World

Posted
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Perhaps, to accentuate the positive, it would benefit you to learn of sellers who WILL vary the duty rate. Fenny Marina on the Oxford lets you choose your own rate, as does Mark of fuel boat 'Dusty' which plies up and down the South Oxford.

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Posted
Posted

Has anyone got a list of fuel sellers that will not sell at 0/100% . We are entitled as a legit trading boat and as an electrically propelled boat to buy fuel without the EU leisure propulsion tax.

Stone boat builders won't budge from 60/40 ( wish I had filled first) so we are now up the Calden without a paddle so to speak. A list of uncooperative fuel sellers would be good to be able to plan journeys.

 

Rodley boat services at Rodley on the L&L would only sell at 60/40 last time I bought from there which was year before last year now. I don't know if they have changed since.

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BargeeSpud Rising Star

BargeeSpud

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Posted (edited)

Technically, the responsibilty of deciding the split lies solely with the boat owner, not the supplier. It is the boat owner who makes the declaration. A supplier who imposes their own interpretation of a split is, again technically, acting illegally. The current "norm" of 60/40 was an arbitrary figure put out by HMRC as an expected average declaration, not the definitive, expected reality.

 

Getting HMRC to act on this is impossible. Not surprising as they're getting revenue to which they're not strictly entitled to in a lot of cases. So it's up to you as an individual whether to accept the situation or take your business elsewhere. If you actually have that choice!

 

So basically, even though lazy suppliers are abusing the system & HMRC are turning a blind eye, we're all stuffed on this.

Edited by Spuds
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Posted
Posted (edited)

Technically, the responsibilty of deciding the split lies solely with the boat owner, not the supplier. It is the boat owner who makes the declaration. A supplier who imposes their own interpretation of a split is, again technically, acting illegally. The current "norm" of 60/40 was an arbitrary figure put out by HMRC as an expected average declaration, not the definitive, expected reality.

 

Getting HMRC to act on this is impossible. Not surprising as they're getting revenue to which they're not strictly entitled to in a lot of cases. So it's up to you as an individual whether to accept the situation or take your business elsewhere. If you actually have that choice!

 

So basically, even though lazy suppliers are abusing the system & HMRC are turning a blind eye, we're all stuffed on this.

 

You are correct of course, it's the purchasers declaration and not for the seller to stipulate.

 

However in some cases sellers doing this are depriving HMRC of revenue, as in cases of boats that have separate tanks for propulsion and domestic. If somebody wanted to fill their propulsion tank and wanted to declare it as 100% propulsion then buying from such a seller prevents them from doing so.

 

My understanding is that you are at 100% for heat AND battery charging , is that correct ?

 

That has always been my understanding too.

 

Propulsion is defined as propelling the boat not running the engine for charging purposes only.

 

 

 

fat fingers edit.

Edited by The Dog House
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bargemast Influencer

bargemast

Posted
Posted

The U.K. is surely different from this side of the Channel, as you have to pax tax on the fuel you use if it's used to charge your batteries for electric propulsion.

 

In Holland they don't allow low-taxed fuel anymore at all used in boats, not even for heating, and battery charging.

 

Peter.

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Posted
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The U.K. is surely different from this side of the Channel, as you have to pax tax on the fuel you use if it's used to charge your batteries for electric propulsion.

 

In Holland they don't allow low-taxed fuel anymore at all used in boats, not even for heating, and battery charging.

 

Peter.

 

I think personally it's only a matter of time before the whole thing is harmonised like this across the whole of the EU.

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Athy Veteran II

AthyDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

You are correct of course, it's the purchasers deceleration.

Yes, I always slow right down when I buy diesel.

 

But seriously: if a boatyard offers only a 60/40 split, what can the boater do but buy it? Here in the Fens there is one such boatyard. If you don't wish to pay their split, you've got to go about 20 miles before you reach the next seller. The only way round the problem is to find a friendly farmer who will sell you a canful.

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Posted
Posted

Yes, I always slow right down when I buy diesel.

 

But seriously: if a boatyard offers only a 60/40 split, what can the boater do but buy it? Here in the Fens there is one such boatyard. If you don't wish to pay their split, you've got to go about 20 miles before you reach the next seller. The only way round the problem is to find a friendly farmer who will sell you a canful.

 

Buddy lazy fat fingers and a dodgy spellchecker.

 

It is a problem as you say where retailers are like hen's teeth - which they are up here too.

 

Supreme marine at Castleford will accept your own split on diesel.

 

At last - they are finally selling it then - we haven't been that way for a while and I knew they were planning to.

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

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Posted

Technically, the responsibilty of deciding the split lies solely with the boat owner, not the supplier. It is the boat owner who makes the declaration. A supplier who imposes their own interpretation of a split is, again technically, acting illegally.

Apparently no!

 

This has been taken up with HMRC by people in the past, and their view was that a supplier who will only sell to you 60/40 is not breaking any laws.

 

They are offering to sell product to people who think their usage is in about the ratio of 60% propulsion to 40% other, and if you are happy to buy from them and make such a declaration that is your prerogative, (as it is not t).

 

Strange, but true!

 

Personally I will not do business with those that will only sell on this basis - even though I am likely to declare 60/40 anyway, but the only sanction against them is people refusing to deal with them - HMRC are not concerned about the way they are choosing to offer gas oil for sale, it seems.

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nbfiresprite Influencer

nbfiresprite

Posted
Posted

Yes, I always slow right down when I buy diesel.

 

But seriously: if a boatyard offers only a 60/40 split, what can the boater do but buy it? Here in the Fens there is one such boatyard. If you don't wish to pay their split, you've got to go about 20 miles before you reach the next seller. The only way round the problem is to find a friendly farmer who will sell you a canful.

 

Very few people in the marina buy fuel from the yard, we all head up to the garage in Station road instead.

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ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawlerDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Has anyone got a list of fuel sellers that will not sell at 0/100% . We are entitled as a legit trading boat and as an electrically propelled boat to buy fuel without the EU leisure propulsion tax.

Stone boat builders won't budge from 60/40 ( wish I had filled first) so we are now up the Calden without a paddle so to speak. A list of uncooperative fuel sellers would be good to be able to plan journeys.

Sue on No Problem has the most comprehensive list http://www.noproblem.org.uk/blog/links/diesel_split.htm its arranged by waterways.

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

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OK, maybe not, though that's not an opinion shared by my VAT Consultant brother.

Well not knocking your brother's view, unless he works for HMRC, I think we have to accept the answers that HMRC have chosen to give on the topic.

 

There is no excuse, I can see , for traders enforcing the 60/40, and I personally am dead against it, and would boycott them. But we are told they can if they so choose.

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john6767 Veteran II

john6767

Posted
Posted

The U.K. is surely different from this side of the Channel, as you have to pax tax on the fuel you use if it's used to charge your batteries for electric propulsion.

 

In Holland they don't allow low-taxed fuel anymore at all used in boats, not even for heating, and battery charging.

 

Peter.

 

I would have thought that in the UK you would pay duty of the fuel were used to charge propulsion batteries, are that is as much propulsion use as using the engine to drive a prop. Is that really not that case?

 

I had taken it the use of the fuel to charge domestic batteries is free of duty and in the case on a normally propelled NB, that even whilst cruising to is reasonable to attribute a certain amount of the fuel to the domestic charging that is taking place.

 

 

 

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Athy Veteran II

AthyDonate to Canal World

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Very few people in the marina buy fuel from the yard, we all head up to the garage in Station road instead.

And a blasted nuisance they are too, all those narrowboats heading down Station Road, especially when they block the level crossing.

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