enforced moorings

[dancers]

Hi all,

I know I don't post very often but hope you will still answer?

 

I have a mooring, a proper marina mooring, but I don't like being on it.

 

When I first joined I asked if it was ok to cruise around locally if I had a mooring and most of you seemed to think it was ok.

 

Recently I found this on the CART website though:

 

I know of boaters who declare a home mooring but never use it – so this is a loophole isn’t it?

Yes and no. If we never observe your boat on the mooring you’ve declared, or we see you repeatedly

on the towpath in an area distant from the declared mooring, we will contact you and ask you to confirm

your mooring status. We may use powers under the data protection legislation to ask the mooring

operator to confirm that you do hold the mooring you’ve declared. But either way, if you never use the

mooring, it amounts to a false declaration which makes the licence invalid. We are just starting to apply

this approach where a ‘ghost’ mooring is suspected.

 

 

This is where I found the whole thing: My link

 

Now I am worried they will have me for cruising the way I do. It's not a 'false' mooring, I just don't like being in a marina.

I stay out the marina, cruise locally, stick with the times I am allowed on different mooring places, and I thought that was ok?

 

I'm also a bit worried that they read everything on here (from what it says at the beginning of the document) so can we still have freedom of speech and thought and questions on here?

 

So can they make me use my mooring even if I don't want to? It's all paid up for fully, is it not my own freedom of choice if I use it or not?

[DeanS]

Give them a call and ask, and let us know what they say I'm sure many cruise all summer and return to their home mooring in winter..which is my plan for 2013

[CV32]

Personally, I think that the document is clear and reasonable. If you have a genuine marina mooring I doubt you have anything to be concerned about.

[Athy]

Ludicrous.

I own a house. Whether I live in it or not is my own damned business, it's paid for and I shall use it or not,as i wish.

Same for a mooring, surely: if a boater has a mooring, that means they are paying for it, but they are under no obligation to moor there for any particular length of time - or ever.

Bit daft if they don't, mind you, what are they paying the fees for?

[Martin Megson]

An interesting point. I have switched my mooring to Fox Narrow boats in Dec 12 but have not yet been on it yet as I can't get there due to river conditions. When I do get there in April the boat will only be moored a month before I take her out for the summer and am unlikely to return until October.

[dancers]

Hi Athy,

 

I am paying for it so that I can do as I wish in the area. Or that is what I thought. I need to be in the local area, so thought if I payed for a mooring in a marina, I could cruise locally as I wished (as long as I don't overstay on a mooring) So I have been coming and going in the local area.

 

I don't see what is wrong with it. I am paying and so I thought it would be my choice then.

 

Hi Dean,

 

I don't want to draw attention, so I haven't rung them, that's why I asked here. Though they will probably be reading it!!

 

Hi CV32,

 

But it says: "But either way, if you never use the

mooring, it amounts to a false declaration which makes the licence invalid. "

[KenK]

Hi all,

I know I don't post very often but hope you will still answer?

 

I have a mooring, a proper marina mooring, but I don't like being on it.

 

When I first joined I asked if it was ok to cruise around locally if I had a mooring and most of you seemed to think it was ok.

 

Recently I found this on the CART website though:

 

I know of boaters who declare a home mooring but never use it – so this is a loophole isn’t it?

Yes and no. If we never observe your boat on the mooring you’ve declared, or we see you repeatedly

on the towpath in an area distant from the declared mooring, we will contact you and ask you to confirm

your mooring status. We may use powers under the data protection legislation to ask the mooring

operator to confirm that you do hold the mooring you’ve declared. But either way, if you never use the

mooring, it amounts to a false declaration which makes the licence invalid. We are just starting to apply

this approach where a ‘ghost’ mooring is suspected.

 

 

This is where I found the whole thing: My link

 

Now I am worried they will have me for cruising the way I do. It's not a 'false' mooring, I just don't like being in a marina.

I stay out the marina, cruise locally, stick with the times I am allowed on different mooring places, and I thought that was ok?

 

I'm also a bit worried that they read everything on here (from what it says at the beginning of the document) so can we still have freedom of speech and thought and questions on here?

 

So can they make me use my mooring even if I don't want to? It's all paid up for fully, is it not my own freedom of choice if I use it or not?

 

The rules also state "or a place where a boat may be lawfully kept" in other words you could keep it on your drive at home if you wished, neighbours might object of course. Jokeing aside C&RT have no right to insist that your boat spends any time on its mooring. The Nigel Moore ruling would probably apply, as long as you are not doing anything which is unlawful or forbidden by law then you can do it. The last bit is probably not how the judge put it.

 

Ken

[dancers]

Hi KenK,

 

Sorry, I don't know what the Nigel Moore ruling is?

[GSer]

Move onto your mooring for a couple of weeks, take a couple of time/dated photo's then get on with your normal cruising routines as long as they are withing the limits set by CRT i'd have thought you would be fine.

 

But i can see CRT's angle, if you're mooring is a 'paper mooring' i'd guess that would mean you obtained the licence by deception in their eyes, i would think they are just looking for actual proof you have a mooring.

 

Good luck

 

Paul

[Keeping Up]

Back when BW insisted that every boat must have a mooring, ie before the concession was introduced for continuous cruisers, there were a great many "virtual moorings" in which the marina owner, for a small payment in cash, would allow anybody to declare his marina as their home mooring. One such marina near here had several times more boats registered than its actual capacity, until BW started checking up on it.

 

I didn't think it was still a problem nowadays.

[carlt]

I think this is a badly worded document saying that your mooring actually has to exist.

 

There are such things as "paper moorings" where an unscrupulous moorings operator will sell an unscrupulous boater a piece of paper saying that he has a mooring that doesn't actually exist.

 

The law does not require you to visit your mooring so you are not acting illegally if you never see it...as long as you can prove you've got one when CRT come knocking.

[Grace and Favour]

Back when BW insisted that every boat must have a mooring, ie before the concession was introduced for continuous cruisers, there were a great many "virtual moorings" in which the marina owner, for a small payment in cash, would allow anybody to declare his marina as their home mooring. One such marina near here had several times more boats registered than its actual capacity, until BW started checking up on it.

 

I didn't think it was still a problem nowadays.

 

But at least this could explain why CRT may be keen to determine the OP's actual mooring status......

[KenK]

Hi KenK,

 

Sorry, I don't know what the Nigel Moore ruling is?

 

Nigel Moore had a long running battle with BW / C&RT over mooring rights, he recently won his appeal. It is very complicated if you look through General Boating and you have a couple of hours and a damp towel to put around your head you could read through it. In essence the judge said that as long as something is not unlawful or harms others then you are free to do it under English law. It's probably more complicated than that but I'm not a lawyer.

C&RT state you either have a mooring / place where you may lawfully keep your boat or CC, nowhere in the licence conditions does it say you must use the mooring. So as long as you have one and pay for it and of course obey the 14 day rule as far as it applies to you and any other time limited mooring, you can, in my opinion, carry on enjoying your boating as you have.

 

 

Ken

[Higgs]

But it says: "But either way, if you never use the

mooring, it amounts to a false declaration which makes the licence invalid. "

 

I think that sounds like tripe. Before you (CRT) start telling people that they must use the mooring, I think it would be useful to have, in writing, a definitive measurement of time expected of you (the moorer) to be on the mooring.

 

This is not a point, for or against ghost moorings. It's about a bit of string that you're supposed to know the length of. That's all, and nowhere can you find the answer - as far as I know.

 

Never using your mooring is not a false declaration. Without parameters, there's no time to define. You have a mooring and declared such. That's no lie.

 

You might as well say - if you don't use the canal a certain amount of time, your licence will be withdrawn.

 

What's the measure. Arbitrary?

Edited February 22, 2013 by Higgs

[Ray]

I presume that many of the so called paper moorings are effectively water space somewhere in the marina (or even less). As long as you can take your boat back to the marina and physically moor it where you and/or the marina owner agree your allocated mooring spot is then I don't see that you have a problem.

 

I might be tempted from time to time to just pop back to the marina for an hour or so just to make sure the marina owner isn't getting two lots of income for one mooring space.

 

That is presuming that (and I doubt this is the case) you don't have some kind of concession arrangement with the marina owner to give you a discount for not using the space too often if at all.

 

I don't see how you can rock any boat (pun not intended) if you contact CRT and explain your position.

 

On the other hand, as CRT haven't actually contacted you they may well have spoken to the marina operator, confirmed you have a mooring and are not concerned.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Ray

[carlt]

Back when BW insisted that every boat must have a mooring, ie before the concession was introduced for continuous cruisers,

When was there ever a requirement for a mooring, prior to 1995, other than for a houseboat?

 

As far as I can see the concession was an amendment to the original draft of the 1995 Act that first introduced the requirement.

[dancers]

Thanks everyone, my mind is a little more at rest!

 

My mooring is a proper one where I can tell you exactly which boat I am moored against (if I was there).

 

I don't feel it is right they could make anyone spend even a day on a mooring if they don't want to. As someone said, if I had a house, I don't need to live there as long as I pay my bills.

 

KenK, thanks for the explanation.

[matty40s]

Hello dancers, did you ever get your boat painted?

CaRT seem to be clutching at straws somewhat recently, micromeasuring boats, ticketing boats for mooring 23 hours and chasing people like yourself.

I would say that they may be suspicious if your mooring was in ,say taylors bridge on the lancaster and you never left the BCN, however, there is nothing to say where you must be. I have no doubt they can check whether they are getting a mooring income from said moorings without hassling you.

A mooring within your current cruising range should not attract interest unless someone is trying to stir things up locally such as vaughan welch and his spotters or a local marina owner with plate of gourmet chips on shoulder.

[Ray]

I suppose it also depends on CRT's definition of "distant from your mooring".

 

If you only cruise local to your nominated mooring then again I dont think you have a problem. However, if you have a mooring in (say) Oxford and spend all year on the towpath in (say) Leeds they may possibly be justified in thinking they can smell a rat

[dancers]

Hi Matty,

 

I ended up painting it myself. Well, most of it.

 

The marina can verify I have a mooring yes, and I am usually within about 10 miles of it.

[Jerra]

It makes an interesting situation for people who share a boat. There is a mooring, but the boat may never spend an night on the mooring for weeks on end. Would you agree your situation is a akin to that I have outlined?

 

I don't mind dropping CRT an email asking what the situation is if you feel the two situations are similar and somebody tells me who to email to get the best result/reply.

[bigste]

I don't understand why someone would pay for a mooring they don't use, am I missing something.

[Higgs]

I suppose it also depends on CRT's definition of "distant from your mooring".

 

If you only cruise local to your nominated mooring then again I dont think you have a problem. However, if you have a mooring in (say) Oxford and spend all year on the towpath in (say) Leeds they may possibly be justified in thinking they can smell a rat

 

What's the rat? It's quite possible to spend a year cruising and away from a mooring. CRT set the two definitions, CC and Home Mooring. If they want to describe other conditions, it isn't useful to have to second guess what they might be. Let them describe the conditions in writing and not hot air.

[Ally]

I don't understand why someone would pay for a mooring they don't use, am I missing something.

From what Dancers has said, it seems the mooring is so they can stay within one area. Without the mooring, they would have to make 'continuous progress' as CC'ers.

[Athy]

Hi Athy,

 

I am paying for it so that I can do as I wish in the area. Or that is what I thought. I need to be in the local area, so thought if I payed for a mooring in a marina, I could cruise locally as I wished (as long as I don't overstay on a mooring) So I have been coming and going in the local area.

 

I don't see what is wrong with it. I am paying and so I thought it would be my choice then.

 

Dancers, Don't get me wrong. I was totally agreeing with your right to use, or not use, your mooring as you wish, because it's yours.

 

I don't understand why someone would pay for a mooring they don't use, am I missing something.

Yes. Dancers has explained her reasons. I wouldn't do it but that doesn't mean that other people should not.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Athy