Traditional Cabin Stool

[dave moore]

Hi all

 

As well as signwriting and decorating boats, from time to time I also make and decorate traditional artefacts. I'm making a cabin stool at the moment and have enough spare timber for a few more. They are robust beasts in 3/4" ply, measuring 12" high, 10and1/2" wide, the top being almost 18" long.They are patterned from a stool from a working boat in trading days. If anyone would be interested in one as a Christmas present, please pm me for a contact number and we can discuss options.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[David Schweizer]

It's a good idea Dave. Why not post a photo when it is finished? When I posted photos of the one I made, several people asked if I would make them one, but I am not into mass production. A photo should generate some interst.

 

Here is the one I made, and decorated by Ron Hough

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Terence]

Here's a nice one currently on ebay ebay clicky

 

 

 

Terence

[Timleech]

Here's a nice one currently on ebay ebay clicky

 

Terence

 

Sorry to disagree, I think it's a bit gross.

 

Tim

[David Schweizer]

Sorry to disagree, I think it's a bit gross.

 

Tim

Thats a bit harsh. Terence's decoration is very accomplished, it is perhaps more heavily decorated than I would prefer, but Gross? Some working boatmen would have cherished that amount of decoration.

Edited November 16, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Ray T]

To my mind any one who can produce work to such a degree deserves credit, whether you like the style or not.

 

I could not even approach the standard of the two examples here.

 

Constructive criticism is one thing but to dismiss out of hand is another.

[blackrose]

Thats a bit harsh. Terence's decoration is very accomplished, it is perhaps more heavily decorated than I would prefer, but Gross? Some working boatmen would have cherished that amount of decoration.

 

Perhaps that just highlights the difference between the tastes of rough old working boatmen who may not even have been able to read or write, and contemporary tastes which are a bit more discerning when it comes to the gaudy and rustic.

 

I remember when I came back from living in Japan for 10 years and bought my first boat in the late 1990s. The whole roses and castles thing just looked like a very crude folkcraft to me after seeing the sophisticated arts and crafts of Japan. I do appreciate that the painting was done quickly and it wasn't meant to be refined, but to my eyes it really looked like it.

[Timleech]

Thats a bit harsh. Terence's decoration is very accomplished, it is perhaps more heavily decorated than I would prefer, but Gross? Some working boatmen would have cherished that amount of decoration.

 

I don't disagree that his work is accomplished, in fact I rather like the castle, perhaps 'grossly overdone' would be more appropriate. I probably would have said nothing if I hadn't found his plugging of his own work, without saying it was his, as 'a nice one' to be out of order.

 

Tim

[David Schweizer]

Perhaps that just highlights the difference between the tastes of rough old working boatmen who may not even have been able to read or write, and contemporary tastes which are a bit more discerning when it comes to the gaudy and rustic.

 

I remember when I came back from living in Japan for 10 years and bought my first boat in the late 1990s. The whole roses and castles thing just looked like a very crude folkcraft to me after seeing the sophisticated arts and crafts of Japan. I do appreciate that the painting was done quickly and it wasn't meant to be refined, but to my eyes it really looked like it.

 

Edited November 16, 2012 by David Schweizer

[churchward]

I don't disagree that his work is accomplished, in fact I rather like the castle, perhaps 'grossly overdone' would be more appropriate. I probably would have said nothing if I hadn't found his plugging of his own work, without saying it was his, as 'a nice one' to be out of order.

 

Tim

Oh dear so it was said in retaliation for what you saw as out of order. not so much a constructive comment as a dig then? I would see his commet as pride in his work and given the OPs post in keeping with the thread.

 

I find Terrence's work to be highly skilled and done with great care. He has a style (within the confines of the tradition) of his own which is recognisable.

 

I would't say I instantly like all his (or anyone elses) work but to dismiss out of hand is disrespectful to the craftsman and the skill deployed.

 

For the record I do have some pieces painted by Terrence including a stool (not the same scheme though) and I value them highly.

[Timleech]

Oh dear so it was said in retaliation for what you saw as out of order. not so much a constructive comment as a dig then? I would see his commet as pride in his work and given the OPs post in keeping with the thread.

 

I find Terrence's work to be highly skilled and done with great care. He has a style (within the confines of the tradition) of his own which is recognisable.

 

I would't say I instantly like all his (or anyone elses) work but to dismiss out of hand is disrespectful to the craftsman and the skill deployed.

 

For the record I do have some pieces painted by Terrence including a stool (not the same scheme though) and I value them highly.

 

No, it was my honest opinion, but I would perhaps have kept that to myself without his blatant and anonymous plug.

 

Tim

[churchward]

No, it was my honest opinion, but I would perhaps have kept that to myself without his blatant and anonymous plug.

 

Tim

hardly anonymous if you click on his profile or go to his website.

[David Schweizer]

No, it was my honest opinion, but I would perhaps have kept that to myself without his blatant and anonymous plug.

 

Tim

It was hardly anonymous, I would have thought that most long term members of this forum would have recognised it as Terence's work straight away, and I am certain that Terence also thought the same by posting a couple of pictures alongside his tongue in cheek statement.

Edited November 16, 2012 by David Schweizer

[boathunter]

If I was a trad stuff painter and started a thread to say I was going to make said stools if anyone would like to commission one, I wouldn't expect another exponant of the art to barge in saying "buy mine". Isn't that just plain rude?

 

...or maybe they're mates and it's a joke...

[Terence]

If I was a trad stuff painter and started a thread to say I was going to make said stools if anyone would like to commission one, I wouldn't expect another exponant of the art to barge in saying "buy mine". Isn't that just plain rude?

 

...or maybe they're mates and it's a joke...

 

Yes Dave is a friend, and was actually an influence on my early work.

 

Terence

Edited November 16, 2012 by Terence

[David Schweizer]

If I was a trad stuff painter and started a thread to say I was going to make said stools if anyone would like to commission one, I wouldn't expect another exponant of the art to barge in saying "buy mine". Isn't that just plain rude?

 

...or maybe they're mates and it's a joke...

As already indicated by Terence, they do know each other, as do most of the top boat decorators. I have met most of them over the years and my observations would suggest that whilst there is a healthy and good natured rivalry between them, there is cetainly no jealousy. They all have their own styles, and I am sure they will all admit to being influenced by the work of others (both alive and deceased). I am also sure they would take the view that if you like their work you will engage them, and if you prefer someone else's work you will not.

 

Dave is probably too modest to post images of his work so here is a photo of the back panels on our boat painted by him a couple of months ago:-

 

 

And here are a couple of images of his Roses and Castles :-

 

 

Edited November 17, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Dovetail]

Hi all

 

As well as signwriting and decorating boats, from time to time I also make and decorate traditional artefacts. I'm making a cabin stool at the moment and have enough spare timber for a few more. They are robust beasts in 3/4" ply, measuring 12" high, 10and1/2" wide, the top being almost 18" long.They are patterned from a stool from a working boat in trading days. If anyone would be interested in one as a Christmas present, please pm me for a contact number and we can discuss options.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Ply is a good material but to me it would be wonderful if you could do a few from solid timber.

 

Sorry not in the market as do that woodwork thing for a living but if any of the stools receive the paint job as the two in the thread the solid wood will only help with the overall look of the finished stool.

[David Schweizer]

Ply is a good material but to me it would be wonderful if you could do a few from solid timber.

 

Sorry not in the market as do that woodwork thing for a living but if any of the stools receive the paint job as the two in the thread the solid wood will only help with the overall look of the finished stool.

 

 

In true boatyard tradition, the one I made was built entirely of solid timber from the off cuts bin in my workshop:-

 

 

Edited November 17, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Timleech]

It was hardly anonymous, I would have thought that most long term members of this forum would have recognised it as Terence's work straight away, and I am certain that Terence also thought the same by posting a couple of pictures alongside his tongue in cheek statement.

 

Actually those pictures didn't appear when I first read his post, there was just the ebay link.

 

Tim

[Terence]

In true boatyard tradition, the one I made was built entirely of solid timber from the off cuts bin in my workshop:-

 

 

Very nice David you should make more, many folk who attend my course are always asking where they can get items from to paint. Now I know where to send them. I'm no carpenter but here is my attempt before I paint them.

 

 

Terence

[Dovetail]

Its good to see that both stools are from solid timber from the two photos I was very confident on David’s been solid but and I am sorry Terrence I was not so confident over yours it was the section of the material 18mm if I am not mistaken and it looks like a laminated board?

 

Nothing wrong with laminated boards it is solid timber after all but then so is plywood its just that solid planks with say one join in them naturally move and give the item a natural feel to them when manufactured boards stay reasonably stable.

 

Also and this may be of interest and help its reasonably difficult to come across old furniture made from ¾ of an inch or 18/19mm construction, I know we are not talking Victoriana here and I am not as an expert as you on narrowboat finishing and you may just have an original to prove me wrong but even the Edwardian’s made standard furniture from 7/8 22mm timber, they also produced plenty of fine furniture with fine details but in all my experience and work if I am producing a repro item and the small details are important its nearly always 22mm over 18mm.

 

Both stools are beautiful by the way.

[David Schweizer]

Its good to see that both stools are from solid timber from the two photos I was very confident on David’s been solid but and I am sorry Terrence I was not so confident over yours it was the section of the material 18mm if I am not mistaken and it looks like a laminated board?

 

Nothing wrong with laminated boards it is solid timber after all but then so is plywood its just that solid planks with say one join in them naturally move and give the item a natural feel to them when manufactured boards stay reasonably stable.

 

Also and this may be of interest and help its reasonably difficult to come across old furniture made from ¾ of an inch or 18/19mm construction, I know we are not talking Victoriana here and I am not as an expert as you on narrowboat finishing and you may just have an original to prove me wrong but even the Edwardian’s made standard furniture from 7/8 22mm timber, they also produced plenty of fine furniture with fine details but in all my experience and work if I am producing a repro item and the small details are important its nearly always 22mm over 18mm.

 

Both stools are beautiful by the way.

I agree with you about seeking to replicate furniture accurateluy, but as far as cabin stools are concerned they do vary significantly in dimension and thickness of material. However, this is probably more to do with the fact that they tended to be made from offcuts lying around the dock, rather than timber purchased for that specific purpose. Before I built my stool several people sent me the dimensiomns of old stools in their possession, and whilst most were robustly constructed a couple were made from material closer to 5/8" than 7/8" None were Victorian but they were all well over fifty years old.

 

As far as fine furnitue is concerned I would agree with you in general about the thickness of timber used, and certainly most of the period furniture in our house is constructed from 7/8" material. However, there were exceptions, we have a Georgian Mahogany Pembroke Table, and the top is only 5/8" thick, as are most of the Pembrokes of this period that I have seen. I can only assume that this is because Mahogany was still very expensive in the second half of the 18th century, and Pembrokes tended to be found in the senior staff qurters rather than in the main house. I have also identified a late Victorian practice of making the solid Mahogany tops on bedroom chests from 3/8" material, with an additional 1/2"strip around the edges, the joint being disguised by the application of a half ovalo moulding.

[Dovetail]

Yes perhaps you are right David and perhaps I jumped in a bit fast and thinking about it most Victorian floor boards are 20mm thick so a couple of steps and a stool.

 

Georgian furniture was pretty refined and often delicate in construction this was the age of the cabinetmaker after all and the Edwardians copied Georgian furniture big time with their own twist. Mahogany was actually rather cheap compared to the first half of the 18C when it was heavily taxed at the ports often arriving as ballast in ships returning empty after transporting whatever. The result of the tax was expensive Mahogany furniture veneered on oak typical early Georgian furniture and only very expensive solid Mahogany furniture of this period from people who had money to burn. I have forgotten the exact date when the tax was scrapped as the ports were full of this Mahogany but pretty much overnight it flooded the market and it was cheaper in the solid than all that cutting and veneering onto oak.

 

Yes although I have not seen the chest you mention I know what you are talking about seen them many times and the construction and some of the first mass produced furniture..

 

As for the stools it is right to think they would use whats available or even cut a lump of timber off a larger piece and I suppose all thickness are possible

[David Mack]

Also and this may be of interest and help its reasonably difficult to come across old furniture made from ¾ of an inch or 18/19mm construction, I know we are not talking Victoriana here and I am not as an expert as you on narrowboat finishing and you may just have an original to prove me wrong but even the Edwardian’s made standard furniture from 7/8 22mm timber, they also produced plenty of fine furniture with fine details but in all my experience and work if I am producing a repro item and the small details are important its nearly always 22mm over 18mm.

 

When I first started using wood, standard softwood from our local DIY shop or builders merchant was sawn to imperial sizes and planed to something only slightly less. So a 1 inch nominal planed plank would be a good 7/8 inch thick. On metrication it became 25mm which is hardly any less than an inch, but the planed timber always seemed to be thinner. Now in the DIY sheds and many timber merchants the standard stuff seems to be 20-21mm if your lucky but more usually 18mm. And it does look too thin!

[dave moore]

Hi all

 

I'm a little surprised at the meanders that this apparently simple thread has taken, though as a regular CWDF visitor maybe I shouldn't be! Thanks to all for their contributions, especially David for featuring my work on his boat and the back cabin of my boat, tho' I'd point out that those roses and castles are more than 10 years old and my style has changed marginally over time. This happens to all painters; a tray here painted by Ron Hough in the 50s is rather more busy and flamboyant than more recent output.I've also pictures of early work by others that I wouldn't post for fear of embarrassing them. I'm no exception. In the summer I wrote a boat for the 3rd time and had to redo the back doors and weatherboard decorations. I also repainted the table cupboard and a water can too - I didn't want the old stuff to survive a moment longer!!!

 

Regarding timber choices...I'd be happy to work in solid timber if I could source it as easily as ply. I agree that the stools of yesterday were probably constructed from offcuts around the yard, but remember that solid wood construction was the norm in those days. I recall deconstructing the battered butty cabin on FMC's "Grange" in the mid 60s...it was all done in hefty softwood, carpentered rather than cabinet made but a solid, workmanlike job for sure. Several years ago I obtained a quantity of old softwood shelving from a school storeroom, all of it 3/4" thick which I saw as a source of stools. Every piece I cut either warped or had shakes in and I'm sorry to say that much of it was converted to kindling, a shame.

 

Thanks to the members who have expressed interest, you'll have your stools for Christmas. Certainly I'll think carefully before making an offer again on this forum.

 

Cheers

 

Dave