Single Handed Cruising

[carlt]

No-one actually has to work a pair of boats these days.

I love the old boats - the proper boats if you want - I`ve carried loose coal with a pair and loved every minute of it - but rightly or wrongly - it`s a leisure canal now and those of us who would see it otherwise are the ones who are out of step. Beyond that the state of some lock gates make it quite important that we keep them closed as much as possible. I wish it was otherwise - but it isn`t. Sad.

Phil

Unfortunately it's not just a leisure canal Phil. It also harbours some of the most important remnants of our heritage and history. If I was just a boatowner as a 'lifestyle choice' then I'd have a nice wooden MFV holed up in a pretty harbour mooring on the coast. I feel I have a responsibility to preserve our rapidly depleting fleet of wooden workboats because not that many people feel the same. I have no interest in keeping Lucy beyond her rebuild. She will be passed on to someone who can use her to educate people about our industrial history and her importance to the waterways (I think I'll hang on to Usk).

 

I am also regularly involved in refloating and moving wooden boats to safety. This usually involves a tow ie. a pair, and often involves moving the boat alone.

 

The majority of boaters may treat the system as a liner pleasure park (I'm not sure how true that is) but that doesn't mean the minority should stop trying to preserve a little bit of what is being eroded away.

 

You'll be advocating the abolishment of roses and castles next (oh no, of course you won't)

[Phil Speight]

Well you've convinced me Phil. Now I'll just nip outside and torch my butty.

Nay lad ( as my grandad might have said *) don`t do that. Specially not Lucy who I last saw up near Runcorn maybe 20 years ago. I`ve said this before - I live and work on a flight of locks that is an absolute nightmare when uphill boaters leave the top gates open . It takes no time at all for our pound to fall off leaving boats hanging on ropes and leaning on the walkway in the dock . It`s B.W.`s fault - it`s their bloody gates that leak like sieves - but when someone working a pair effectively tells me that we`ve got a bent door on a customers boat , a smashed plank in the dock and our residential boats are at all angles becuase they can`t be expected to close gates AND WHY SHOULD THEY - I have to be fairly philosophic if I`m to keep my temper. And we should all keep our tempers when waterway cultures clash I think.

Keep your butty for goodness sake - the world would be a poorer place without it - but try join me here on the fence for a while , you can see both sides from here! On the other hand maybe I`m just getting old!

Cheers

Phil

* it may actually have been "Sithee........."

Edited February 5, 2007 by Phil Speight

[magnetman]

...I live and work on a flight of locks that is an absolute nightmare when uphill boaters leave the top gates open . It takes no time at all for our pound to fall off leaving boats hanging on ropes and leaning on the walkway in the dock . It`s B.W.`s fault - it`s their bloody gates that leak like sieves - but when someone working a pair effectively tells me that we`ve got a bent door on a customers boat , a smashed plank in the dock and our residential boats are at all angles becuase they can`t be expected to close gates AND WHY SHOULD THEY - I have to be fairly philosophic...

 

This is what I mean when I say 'look around you'. Some locks need to be left closed up because of leakage, which is easy to spot when using the lock anyway, but not all of them do. It's a matter of responding to the surroundings in a sensible way. If there's a short pound or a major leak then shut the gates...

[John Orentas]

No I am not happy about all this, if someone started a campaign to reverse the 'close the gates behind you' rule I would probably support it, after all that was the general convention in the working days. I certainly do not support anything which gives some kind of priority to one group of users over another. I have heard operators of trip boats trying this one on, 'Ah but we are earning a living at this'. Well so what, truck drivers on the M6 are earning a living too I don't give them priority either.

If the argument is simply that "I can't manage this boat/s and work the locks as well", I would say get some help, you are playing on the canals in the same way as I am. I remember the crew of that damn steamer president tried at one time to jump all the locks travelling between venues, "because we are a working boat and a steamer", they got a good slapping down by general opinion.

The only exception I would make would be for Horse Boats.

[blackrose]

No I am not happy about all this, if someone started a campaign to reverse the 'close the gates behind you' rule I would probably support it, after all that was the general convention in the working days. I certainly do not support anything which gives some kind of priority to one group of users over another. I have heard operators of trip boats trying this one on, 'Ah but we are earning a living at this'. Well so what, truck drivers on the M6 are earning a living too I don't give them priority either.

If the argument is simply that "I can't manage this boat/s and work the locks as well", I would say get some help, you are playing on the canals in the same way as I am. I remember the crew of that damn steamer president tried at one time to jump all the locks travelling between venues, "because we are a working boat and a steamer", they got a good slapping down by general opinion.

The only exception I would make would be for Horse Boats.

 

You are not happy about what exactly, people expressing their opinions? I think that's all it is - there's no demand for priority or exemption.

Edited February 5, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

No I am not happy about all this, if someone started a campaign to reverse the 'close the gates behind you' rule I would probably support it, after all that was the general convention in the working days. I certainly do not support anything which gives some kind of priority to one group of users over another. I have heard operators of trip boats trying this one on, 'Ah but we are earning a living at this'. Well so what, truck drivers on the M6 are earning a living too I don't give them priority either.

If the argument is simply that "I can't manage this boat/s and work the locks as well", I would say get some help, you are playing on the canals in the same way as I am. I remember the crew of that damn steamer president tried at one time to jump all the locks travelling between venues, "because we are a working boat and a steamer", they got a good slapping down by general opinion.

The only exception I would make would be for Horse Boats.

Let me be clear. I expect no priority because I move two boats, have retired work boats or because if I don't hurry I'll sink before I get there.

 

If I'm working a flight of locks either at the end of the day or in winter when there's no guarantee of another boat through then I will walk back over the flight and close the gates, AFTER I've taken my boats through and, if I meet a boat coming up the flight then I will help that boat through (like magman, I love working locks). If it's high summer or before lunch then I will leave gates open as it is extremely likely that another boat will be along. If a lock is particularly leaky then I will stop and close the gate, and complain to BW.

 

I don't mind having to close a gate when I reach a lock, I have to get off to work the paddles anyway. It's no hardship and I'd rather think I'm going to catch up with something interesting than 'another lazy boater'.

 

Edited to say: and I think if you asked anyone who has been boating with me in the past 24 years will confirm, I am perfectly capable of working my boats correctly.

Edited February 5, 2007 by carlt

[Hairy-Neil]

I agree but the trouble is that the lock gates aren't made quite like they were.....

 

Have you noticed the handrails on new gates are being fitted tight up to the strapping post making them impossible to use.....

[Hairy-Neil]

I suspect this is deliberate BW policy rather than ...."getting them made by someone who hasn't a clue."

[DHutch]

If I saw someone single handed with a boat and a butty I would just not expect them to close the gates, in fact I would catch up and volunteer to do it for them, and I would send the kids on ahead and get them to do ALL of the gate work.

Yeah, ditto.

 

...The only exception I would make would be for Horse Boats.

Why horseboats if nothing else?

[allybsc]

Yeah, ditto.

Well that's makes two of us Dan, I would find it a pleasure and an opportunity to see something rare and to watch and learn.

[alan_fincher]

The only exception I would make would be for Horse Boats.

Why ?

 

(Just curious, that's all!)

[Phil Speight]

Let me be clear. I expect no priority because I move two boats, have retired work boats or because if I don't hurry I'll sink before I get there.

 

If I'm working a flight of locks either at the end of the day or in winter when there's no guarantee of another boat through then I will walk back over the flight and close the gates, AFTER I've taken my boats through and, if I meet a boat coming up the flight then I will help that boat through (like magman, I love working locks). If it's high summer or before lunch then I will leave gates open as it is extremely likely that another boat will be along. If a lock is particularly leaky then I will stop and close the gate, and complain to BW.

 

I don't mind having to close a gate when I reach a lock, I have to get off to work the paddles anyway. It's no hardship and I'd rather think I'm going to catch up with something interesting than 'another lazy boater'.

 

Edited to say: and I think if you asked anyone who has been boating with me in the past 24 years will confirm, I am perfectly capable of working my boats correctly.

Sorry - I can`t get my head round the Quote thing this morning.

I need to stress that I wouldn`t for a moment wish to suggest that you can`t handle your boats correctly - if I gave that impression I apologize. Your position on this whole issue is much more clear in this post than the previous one and if everyone simply used their common sense then it would be less contentious all round.

Since you say Lucy isn`t about to sink - my friend Rene James steered her dad`s Barlows horse boat as a child in the 1930`s on the Ashby canal. She once said they leaked so much they used to regularly run them into the shallows on the inside of a bend just to get some mud in the seams ! Did you own Lucy when she was at the Boat and Butty yard?

Cheers

Phil

[John Orentas]

Why ?

 

(Just curious, that's all!)

 

 

Probably the only activity on our canal system that is genuinely at risk in terms of it's history and traditions is horse-boating, it is a difficult skill to perfect and there are very few people left who are true experts, there is a real danger that it could simply die out like the dodo and all we will have left will be a few dusty photo's and the odd surviving harness.

 

Just by chance Sue Day is a member of the Rochdale Canal Society, she attends many of our meetings and gets involved with the organisation of events, she has taken here horse Bonny and her very old boat Maria (arguably the oldest working boat in Britain) all over the country even to London and back a number of times campaigning for her particular cause, she also lobbies BW and anyone else who will listen to maintain the system in such a way that it is 'horse friendly'. It may not be commonly recognised that large parts of the of the system are effectively closed off to horses, bank-side vegetation, poorly designed stiles and bike traps, towpath diversions, pedestrian footbridges were there was once a turnover bridge, access to overnight grazing and stabling. Mile upon mile of moored boats don't help either.

 

Anyway, we all like horses don't we.

 

P. S. As Neil has reminded me, those trendy new signpost and other totally useless sign-boards at the waters edge that BW seem to have limitless funds for these days.

Edited February 6, 2007 by John Orentas

[alan_fincher]

All very laudable John.....

 

But I seemed to get the impression that you were saying you might "give way" to a horse boat at locks ?

 

I'd have thought they would be unlikely to be in that much of a rush ? Usually people fighting their cause from canal boats seem happy to plod along, (no pun intended!), at the same speed as the rest of us. That then gives them time to chat to the public at large, and to promote what they are fighting for.

[Phil Speight]

Unfortunately it's not just a leisure canal Phil. It also harbours some of the most important remnants of our heritage and history. If I was just a boatowner as a 'lifestyle choice' then I'd have a nice wooden MFV holed up in a pretty harbour mooring on the coast. I feel I have a responsibility to preserve our rapidly depleting fleet of wooden workboats because not that many people feel the same. I have no interest in keeping Lucy beyond her rebuild. She will be passed on to someone who can use her to educate people about our industrial history and her importance to the waterways (I think I'll hang on to Usk).

 

I am also regularly involved in refloating and moving wooden boats to safety. This usually involves a tow ie. a pair, and often involves moving the boat alone.

 

The majority of boaters may treat the system as a liner pleasure park (I'm not sure how true that is) but that doesn't mean the minority should stop trying to preserve a little bit of what is being eroded away.

 

You'll be advocating the abolishment of roses and castles next (oh no, of course you won't)

I keep findng new bits to read this morning! As I`m sure you well know we are both very much in it together as far as heritage is concerned - it`s something I feel very strongly about - it also gets me into trouble with the powers that be quite regularly - so what the Parliamentary Waterways something or other will make of me in April I shudder to think.

I want to see pairs of boats working the canal properly ( and thank goodness someone is working for the forgotten wooden boats as well as the few high profile ones ), I want the history of the canal and it`s people to be honestly

and accurately told and I want enough of their world preserved to ensure that it is always there for people to see and learn from. However I also feel that we cannot impose the past on the present when the infrastructure and use to which the canal is put has changed so much. It is a leisure waterway - even though several of us do actually work on it! The very sad truth - and I see this perhaps more than you because of my job(s) - is that a goodly percentage of modern boat owners don`t give a flying f`word about what the canal used to be. What`s worse , if the real truth be told , is that those who actually have responsibility for it all don`t care either. I don`t suppose I`m telling you anything you don`t already know here.

As a result we have a canal system that is actually beginning to make it downright anti-social ( even impossible ) and occasionally potentially dangerous if a minority use very different methods to operate it - even if their procedures would have been entirely correct a generation ago and may well make more sense.

I don`t know what we can do about this - those of us who care - but confrontation with other users on the lockside won`t further our cause ( I`ve done plenty of that over the years) - we`ll have to find another solution . That could mean completely changing the way BW and The Waterways Trust see their responsibilities. All we`ll need then is a policy change and a few million quid from the Government to make some of it work properly again.God `elp us!

Cheers and , as I could have got away with saying when the canal was a place for CANAL enthusiasts . er..Peace man!

Phil

Edited February 6, 2007 by Phil Speight

[John Orentas]

All very laudable John.....

But I seemed to get the impression that you were saying you might "give way" to a horse boat at locks ?

I'd have thought they would be unlikely to be in that much of a rush ? Usually people fighting their cause from canal boats seem happy to plod along, (no pun intended!), at the same speed as the rest of us. That then gives them time to chat to the public at large, and to promote what they are fighting for.

 

 

Hi Alan.

 

I would certainly give way to a horse-boat at locks or anywhere else but it not a question of being in a rush, controlling a heavy un-powered boat and half a ton of horse who would rather be somewhere else is not easy, much better as you say to plod along at a comfortable speed. I know Sue would ask everyone, not to rush out of the way but just try to be a bit accommodating of their particular and these days unique problems.

[Hairy-Neil]

...... and all we will have left will be a few dusty photo's and the odd surviving harness.

 

Horse boating has been recorded on film in recent years, including two horse boats passing in a lock flight.

 

.......pedestrian footbridges were there was once a turnover bridge.......

 

BW have installed a lovely finger post at Lapworth north junction making it impossible to horse boat/bow haul across the junction. It makes a mockery of the smoothed off bridge parapets and rope guidance ironwork.

[WJM]

Gates were left open in the commercial days because of commercial time pressures and because the high usage levels. It would never be long till another boat came along. Now, in the leisure era, usage is much lower. In winter a lock can sit for days unused. Since the act of closing a lock can preserve water it is really only fair that we always shut the gates behind us.

 

The only exception I make to this is on a waterway like the the Southern Grand Union where the canal is fed copiously by a river and there is never a shortage of water.

[Hairy-Neil]

Now, in the leisure era, usage is much lower. In winter a lock can sit for days unused. Since the act of closing a lock can preserve water it is really only fair that we always shut the gates behind us.

 

I disagree. On my trip out last august I queued several times at lock flights with as many as 15 boats waiting ahead of me to go down Tyrley and around 10 in the queue at Stone. I'm certain it was never that busy in carrying days. Agreed in winter it can be slower but in the summer months some canals have unprecedented levels of traffic.

[WJM]

I was thinking more in terms of constant stream - in the days of freight, boats worked through 24hrs a day so a lock was unlikely to stand open for long - now at very least you have overnights, if not whole days for the leaks to drain water off.

 

And when it is busy, I think it is just plain good manners to leave the lock as you found it - the days of hard nosed commerce are gone.

 

 

 

On the same note, I see the Jam'Olers coming in for some flack in the press, lots of people willing to have a moan - they passed me en-route and sure they were hammering it, but it was a re-enactment and I was delighted to see a small sample of how it used to be done.

[Hairy-Neil]

And when it is busy, I think it is just plain good manners to leave the lock as you found it -

 

Locks that are left open are set for the next boat 50% of the time. Locks that are closed up are wrong 100% of the time....

[DHutch]

Have you noticed the handrails on new gates are being fitted tight up to the strapping post making them impossible to use.....

I suspect this is deliberate BW policy rather than ...."getting them made by someone who hasn't a clue."

Yeah, its sucks if you ask me.

- Be it a delibarte policy, or just plan lack of knowlage, i dont think its really approapreate.

- Im not saying everything must be done perfectly to allow everything to work 100% always, but i do feel they have an obligation to do there best to allow such working of the the locks to remain possable. No?

 

 

Same goes for anti-cycal devices, unsuitable bridges, signposts, and other things that are so obvously incompatable with horseboating, somthing which i deffonatly think should continue, (along with steam).

 

 

 

Daniel

[WJM]

"Locks that are left open are set for the next boat 50% of the time. Locks that are closed up are wrong 100% of the time...."

 

 

The maths doesnt quiet work - the lock will be perfect for a statistical 50%, but you are making more work for the other statistical 50% - but that does not address leakages and protection against failed or accidentally open paddles. But whatever the theory, the practice is to close the gates. I have only ever come across gates left open on the southern GU.

[Hairy-Neil]

The maths doesnt quiet work - the lock will be perfect for a statistical 50%, but you are making more work for the other statistical 50%.

 

Not if they also leave the gates open when they've done with the lock.....

[blackrose]

I have only ever come across gates left open on the southern GU.

 

Is it ok to leave gates open on the Southern GU? Accepted practice? Where exactly does the S.GU extend up to - Milton Keynes?