Single Handed Cruising

[Keeping Up]

Is it ok to leave gates open on the Southern GU? Accepted practice? Where exactly does the S.GU extend up to - Milton Keynes?

Traditionally it extends up to Berkhamstead. I believe the GU was officially wide up to there and was never officially declared wide further north (yes the locks and bridges are wide to the north but the general contour of the canal was not shaped with the intention of two barges being able to pass each other)

 

For a long while the official instruction was to close gates when north of Berko but to leave them open when to the south. But these days I'm sure BW would tell you to close the gates on the southern GU as well.

[fender]

Locks that are left open are set for the next boat 50% of the time. Locks that are closed up are wrong 100% of the time....

 

its actually much rarer to find gates open for one's boat, its like supermarket queues one is always in a queue that takes longer than the others, its like the toast always landing buttered side down, so the arguement about leaving gates open/closed is a bit of a rumpus created by pedantics who like to think that the complete opposite is the case.

[magnetman]

its actually much rarer to find gates open for one's boat, its like supermarket queues one is always in a queue that takes longer than the others, its like the toast always landing buttered side down, so the arguement about leaving gates open/closed is a bit of a rumpus created by pedantics who like to think that the complete opposite is the case.

 

On the contrary I have always found that if I stop and close gates behind me as soon as I am back on the boat and moving away from the lock a boat comes towards me round the next corner. The probability of a boat coming is directly proportional to whether I have closed the gate.

I don't think there should be any universal rule about closing gates, its a matter of looking to see if the things are going to reopen anyway (top gates often do this), check levels, check leakage check for jammed paddles, and basically respond to the surroundings in a sensible way. some of the gates south of Berko should DEFINITELY be closed as there are some short pounds with supply problems so an exception area to the rule just doesn't work which is why the general guidance is 'close everything' I suppose.

[fender]

On the contrary I have always found that if I stop and close gates behind me as soon as I am back on the boat and moving away from the lock a boat comes towards me round the next corner. The probability of a boat coming is directly proportional to whether I have closed the gate.

I don't think there should be any universal rule about closing gates, its a matter of looking to see if the things are going to reopen anyway (top gates often do this), check levels, check leakage check for jammed paddles, and basically respond to the surroundings in a sensible way. some of the gates south of Berko should DEFINITELY be closed as there are some short pounds with supply problems so an exception area to the rule just doesn't work which is why the general guidance is 'close everything' I suppose.

 

Yes perspire and close every gate and yike's no sooner than you've done done deed a boat appears coming in the opposite direction. Its so pedantic to bang the drum for all gates to be closed. I still think that common sense is best and if a lock has issues (eg leaks, feeds a very short pound etc) a notice will be extra insurance.

 

As I've seen, one doesnt have to have all gates closed to empty a pound. Paddles not closed properly and left overnight are another cause. The notion of closing all gates is based on a failable historicsm. Events at a lock appears to have minuscule probabilities, but in fact the probabilities at a lock are countless and the unexpected emerges at a rate contrary to one's expectations - and therefore just one set of dictates (eg close the gates) is sure to fail a good percentage of the time.

[Hairy-Neil]

I have no qualms about leaving bottom gates open if lightly crewed, the majority of locks will empty over time rather than fill. Besides, you can waste far more water on a lock flight by not filling ahead so in my mind, sending the crew on is far more important. We've all seen boats where the entire crew gets back on board on between locks at the likes of Audlem....

 

When single handing narrow locks, its mostly easy enough to shut them from the boat with a cabin shaft so they do tend to be closed up. Obviously there are exceptions at the likes of Somerton, Tardebigge top etc......

 

When three handing a motor and butty down hill on the GU (1 motor steerer, 1 butty steerer, 1 lock wheeler on bicycle) we'll exit through one bottom gate only so just the one gets left. On the longer pounds you have time to shut the second gate so I mostly do but on some of the shorter pounds, not.

[carlt]

Sorry - I can`t get my head round the Quote thing this morning.

I need to stress that I wouldn`t for a moment wish to suggest that you can`t handle your boats correctly - if I gave that impression I apologize. Your position on this whole issue is much more clear in this post than the previous one and if everyone simply used their common sense then it would be less contentious all round.

Since you say Lucy isn`t about to sink - my friend Rene James steered her dad`s Barlows horse boat as a child in the 1930`s on the Ashby canal. She once said they leaked so much they used to regularly run them into the shallows on the inside of a bend just to get some mud in the seams ! Did you own Lucy when she was at the Boat and Butty yard?

Cheers

Phil

Hi Phil

It was a John orentas quote that riled me not yours. I didn't actually say Lucy isn't about to sink, she is actually sunk on her moorings at the moment. She sank while my son was being born and I haven't had a chance to float her and sort the problem yet.

I didn't own the boat back then (mid '80's I believe) I bought her in 2000, Andy, who had her and docked her in runcorn died last year. That was her last docking btw! She's gone beyond dry dock repairs now and I'm maintaining her until I can get a steel cradle built to lift her out and transport her to some hardstanding to rebuild her.

[carlt]

On the same note, I see the Jam'Olers coming in for some flack in the press, lots of people willing to have a moan - they passed me en-route and sure they were hammering it, but it was a re-enactment and I was delighted to see a small sample of how it used to be done.

A bunch of boaters in boats unconnected with Blue Line (in some cases modern boats) hammering down the cut, being rude to other boaters and expecting to be given way to is NOT a reenactment. It's also not how 'it used to be done' (except in Tim Colon's head). And who exactly 'owns' the Jam 'ole run? Mr Colon announcing this year's to be the last is the height of arrogance. If, as the owner of a Blue Line boat, I want to ring the owner of Ian and ask him if he's interested in a Jam 'ole run, or Roger (or even the Raymond trust, now they own Nutfield) then I am free to do so. You never know it might be even run courteously and covered by a decent comic as well. The jam 'ole run is over when no'one wants to do it anymore, not when it's self appointed 'owner' says so.

Edited February 7, 2007 by carlt

[Hairy-Neil]

Founder member of the Tim Colon fan club eh carlt?

[David Schweizer]

On the same note, I see the Jam'Olers coming in for some flack in the press, lots of people willing to have a moan - they passed me en-route and sure they were hammering it, but it was a re-enactment and I was delighted to see a small sample of how it used to be done.

All these claims that the Blue Line boats ran fast and did not slow down past moored craft is Myth.

 

I knew the Whitlock, Bray, and Collins Families in the 1960's. They each pased our mooring in Uxbridge twice a week, they did slow down and they never demanded a lock in front of others. They achieved their timing by starting early, finishing late, and always sending a lock wheeler on ahead to set the locks.

 

The reported unruly methods allegedly used by the last Jam 'Ole run are not representative of how it was done in the past, in fact I wonder how many of those involved actually ever saw the Blue Line fleet in action.

[Hairy-Neil]

..... I wonder how many of those involved actually ever saw the Blue Line fleet in action.

 

Is that an issue then?

 

The oldest working standard gauge steam locomotive in this country is the Furness Railway Number 20. Built in 1863 as a tender locomotive, it returned to the works in 1870 for conversion to a saddle tanker in which form it worked in industrial service for a further 90 years, meaning there's nobody alive that remembers it at work in its original form. That didn't stop enthusiasts wanting to restore it in a £140,000 project and operate it in its original as built condition.

 

Going back further into history we also have people about who's hobby is civil war reenactment, jousting etc., none of whom could ever have seen it for real. I'm not interested myself but everyone to their own...

[Hairy-Neil]

All these claims that the Blue Line boats ran fast and did not slow down past moored craft is Myth.

 

The evidence is in the lock keepers log for Braunston from the mid sixties. The Whitlocks were doing Braunston - Jam'ole - Braunston in four and a half days, including time spent shoveling out the coal by hand. You don't do runs like that by hanging about.

 

I've also seen photographs of carrying boats running in the 1960's pushing huge bow waves that were breaking over the towpath.

[David Schweizer]

Is that an issue then?

In itself no, but when people begin to make up history, or merely repeat inaccuracies it does become an issue.

 

Perhaps I should make it clear that I did not mean to imply that the Blue Line Crews did not run fast in open water, because they certainly did. However, they did slow down past moored craft, and they did not demand locks ahead of others. Having said tha Rose Whitlock would certainly let you know if your slow working of a lock was holding them up, Rose and Arthur Bray may have thought it but didn't say anything, and the Collins rarely engaged in any sort of conversation beyond the polite hello.

 

One point I would like to have cleared up is, who named it the Jam 'Ole Run? I never heard any of the Blue Line crews use that term. I am pretty certain I know who first used the term, and it was in the 1960's, but not by any of the Blue Line crews.

Edited February 8, 2007 by David Schweizer

[Liam]

One point I would like to have cleared up is, who named it the Jam 'Ole Run? I never heard any of the Blue Line crews use that term. I am pretty certain I know who first used the term, and it was in the 1960's, but not by any of the Blue Line crews.

Who do you think it was, David?

[WJM]

I am sorry carlt finds the whole thing so vexatious - I found it fascinating to see original working motor and butty pairs doing what they used to do in their glory days (romantic or what) - and yes I was callously bobed about a bit by their savage washes and even had to wait at a lock for them to go through - but I got over it!

[carlt]

I am sorry carlt finds the whole thing so vexatious - I found it fascinating to see original working motor and butty pairs doing what they used to do in their glory days (romantic or what) - and yes I was callously bobed about a bit by their savage washes and even had to wait at a lock for them to go through - but I got over it!

Maybe it's because I own an original working motor and butty pair and have never felt the need to go past a moored boat above tickover. My butty lucy was one of the boats on the last 'jam 'ole run' btw.

[carlt]

Founder member of the Tim Colon fan club eh carlt?

 

Actually I have loads of respect for Tim and what he's done with Braunston marina. I was at the dispersal sale in the 80's and we were all there picking at the carcass and muttering that there was no chance of that size operation coming back. It took people with vision, like Tim, among others, to prove us doomsayers wrong.

 

What does annoy me, though is the beatification of normal working class people. There is a tendency to over-romanticize what was just hard work which strikes me as very patronising (as Jarvis said...'I wanna live like common people, I wanna do whatever common people do'). It just smacks of 'Oh what a lovely war!'.

 

And when he published his mini-novel about Mr Finch....

[Blue_skies]

Hi all, are there any situations (or locations on the system*) you can think of where it's unsafe to operate alone? I ask this as I intend to tour for a while, alone.

 

Thanks

 

*e.g. particular locks

[Carrie]

I can't speak about river boating, which I imagine has its own set of hazards for a single-hander, but I am finding the narrow canals with their single locks much easier than the wide locks. Relaying out 2 ropes in a wide lock, while handling the paddles is pretty stressful (for me at least), whereas the single locks are easily manageable alone. (she says before falling in or some other 'sod's law' catastrophe!)

[Hairy-Neil]

Relaying out 2 ropes in a wide lock, while handling the paddles is pretty stressful

 

Get yourself some tiller strings will help. Most folk manage with a centre line....

 

 

I once single handed Nuneaton up the Thames...One of the lock keepers wasn't happy about me using a centre line and insisted I get the other crew member to hold a front line. I suggested he go find him....

[magnetman]

Technically they have to require two lines because its the regulations, nothing to do with crew just a prehistoric legal structure associated with a very old river navigation. Some of the lock keepers take this seriously, others don't give a toss its a lot to do with whether they want narrowboats about.

According to a good lock-keeper friend of mine they had guidance from the management saying "you must treat narrowboat owners in the same way you would treat anyone else". This could be seen two ways. Either we are 'equal' to gin palaces in the sense of right to be there or we are 'not to be allowed to use centre lines'. goes both ways.

[Hairy-Neil]

Technically they have to require two lines because its the regulations,....

 

I believe the regs only apply if there is more than one vessel in the lock. I was on my own in more ways than one....

[magnetman]

Yes thats a good point, I believe the 'stop your engine' regulation can be relaxed if alone in a lock I'm not sure about the Environment Agency insurance covering damage to a boat inadequately secured is the same story I'll have to check that one out or perhaps Howard of teddington lock could advise on that. It's an interesting point.

[fender]

Technically they have to require two lines because its the regulations, nothing to do with crew just a prehistoric legal structure associated with a very old river navigation. Some of the lock keepers take this seriously, others don't give a toss its a lot to do with whether they want narrowboats about.

According to a good lock-keeper friend of mine they had guidance from the management saying "you must treat narrowboat owners in the same way you would treat anyone else". This could be seen two ways. Either we are 'equal' to gin palaces in the sense of right to be there or we are 'not to be allowed to use centre lines'. goes both ways.

 

 

Never mind the rules or not, I dont see how narrowboats can be handled in Thames locks, especially going upstream, with just one centre rope. The flow from the gate sluices is extremely strong and affects particularly narrowboats because of their long deep flat sided hulls - if your n/b works loose and hits a gin palace... well theres a potential insurance claim, so two ropes securing the boat is an absolute must.

[magnetman]

I actually find its quite easy, given sensibly thick and long ropes at both ends of the boat, to do the Thames locks single handed, not a problem, the boat slides in nicely get off the boat with the cabin shaft and the back rope, wrap the back rope over a bollard with a sensible knot like a lightermans hitch then walk along and grab the front rope with the shaft and do the same thing. I enjoy it. Leave back rope tied and control the boat with the front. Using a centre line going up is a bit of a nightmare because of the swirl but coming down not so bad, I often use centre and back ropes coming down the lock-keepers don't mind cos there's no swirl. Culham lock is a bit massively deep and needs good planning and entry speed but not too bad really.

 

edite typo

Edited February 10, 2007 by magnetman

[David Schweizer]

Never mind the rules or not, I dont see how narrowboats can be handled in Thames locks, especially going upstream, with just one centre rope. The flow from the gate sluices is extremely strong and affects particularly narrowboats because of their long deep flat sided hulls - if your n/b works loose and hits a gin palace... well theres a potential insurance claim, so two ropes securing the boat is an absolute must.

Well you may not be able to see how it can be done with only one centre rope, but I can assure you that it is quite easy if you apply the proper physics and take biting turn round a bollard. I have been up and down the Thames from Brentford to Oxford half a dozen times single handed, and have only been asked to hold the boat on two ropes once, and that was by one of the Summer Assistants. Of course you have to get off the boat to do this, unlike the lazy sods on Giant tupperwares who just hand the rope to the lock keeper and expect him to pass it round the bollard and back to them.