The canal guide website i've helped build

[Machpoint005]

In what sense is the site a 'complete guide', pray?

[David Moorings]

Just to clarify, pub owners do not write their own reviews they state how to find them, what sort of food, beer, entertainment they do.

 

We rule out pubs that we would not feel comfortable spending time in and look for the kind of pub that is inviting, generally has a good selection of drink and if they serve food that it is of good quality. This does rule out some but it means that people not familiar with the area are generally going to have a positive experience, we do all we can to find the best ones. That said different people have different preferences, this is why we feel that pictures and a description of a pub is useful.

 

"Hand picking pubs" is not the same as "only including pubs that pay you". Which is it?

 

In terms of the site functionality I think it's fine to take the google maps based approach btw, but I've not tried in on a phone or tablet.

[Laurence Hogg]

Just to clarify, pub owners do not write their own reviews they state how to find them, what sort of food, beer, entertainment they do.

 

We rule out pubs that we would not feel comfortable spending time in and look for the kind of pub that is inviting, generally has a good selection of drink and if they serve food that it is of good quality. This does rule out some but it means that people not familiar with the area are generally going to have a positive experience, we do all we can to find the best ones. That said different people have different preferences, this is why we feel that pictures and a description of a pub is useful.

So you disregarded all the pubs on the Wyrley & Essington? ? ? - !!!! I dont believe you have ever been along that canal!

 

In what sense is the site a 'complete guide', pray?

About as complete as an airfix kit dropped down ten flights of stairs!

[DeanS]

OK, at a risk of being negative, and displaying a parochial aproach to how good the site is (which may well be a good idea - if everybody comments on the canal that they moor on then you get plenty of focussed feedback);

 

The site is dismally slow to load, and using the interactive map causes my PC to freeze for a period of time. A classic case of a "design" that probably works well on your local machine, but is crap over the web. You site is built with a focus on what you want to do, without reference to how well the features will actually work. A classic example of why web designers should always have a techie minder who knows nothing about what looks good, and is just there to say "no that won't work well".

 

Now to content, and looking at my local canal - The Peak Forest.

 

Very poor.

• You promise at least two pubs - none on this canal
• Apparently the canal is linked to the Ashby Canal - No, I think not, surely you mean the Ashton Canal
• Linked to the HNC - Well possibly, but only if you ignore the geography (as per Martin)
• "With narrowboat hire bases spread along the Macclesfield and Huddersfield Narrow Canal " - No
• "Around Ashton-under-Lyne the Huddersfield Canal veers to the left and the Peak Forest to the right at Dunkfield Junction" - No it doesn't, and this description only applies if you are heading from Manchester, and Dukinfield is misspelt.
• "Romily" - no, it is Romiley
• "a 2 mile stretch containing all 16 locks" - no, it is a mile
• The Lower Peak Forest is described at length, and the Upper Peak Forest (the popular bit) barely mentioned.
• "The canal runs to it’s end at Whaley Bridge but not before running through Bugsworth Basin " - no, Bugsworth is on an arm (or strictly speaking it is the main line, and Whaley Bridge is an Arm) you don't pass through one onto the way to the other.

 

Thanks for your contribution Dave. I'm sure he'll rectify that by tomorrow morning, and all will be well again

[David Moorings]

Dudley Canal

 

http://mooringsandmoor.com/waterway/dudley-canals/

 

Dudley and Stourbridge have their own sections. I stated that a bulk of the BCN was over 3 sections, I will review my choice of phrase. the Birmingham Fazeley Line will be live in the next week.

 

"the BCN is built on three levels, the Birmingham, Walsall and Wolverhampton levels where the canals are heavily locked in between."

 

really? Well it may be to you but most of us could name at least six. Theres three locks down to Birmingham level and 8 if you want then to go onto the Walsall.

 

Also a substantial part of the BCN is missing on your map, it does exist in and around Birmingham and includes the Birmingham & Fazeley and the connection through Ashted to the Grand Union.

The Dudley canals are also an essential part of the BCN, they are missing!!

 

To be fair you say bugger all about what is around the BCN which seems to indicate a lack of proper research. Where is there a rural pocket on the Walsall canal? Plenty of derilict ex industrial ground but "rural" ?

There are attractions such as the renowned art gallery on the wharf in Walsall, superb pubs on the Wyrley at Bentley Brudge, Wednesfield, Willenhall, Pelsall & Brownhills, in Tipton on the old main line, and all round the parts of Birmingham you havent included, also on the Daw end and so on.

 

And as for moorings, theres Caggys yard, Norton Canes, Longwood, Hockley port, Sneyd to name some long term sites and there services with moorings all over the system. Theres a number of offside secure moorings ie Lane Head in Willenhall, the new moorings in Tipton.

[DeanS]

I think this is a success story in the making. Wish you all the best. I like idea of canal branded clothing. Can a thin guy like me where a widebeam shirt...and can a fat guy wear a narrowboat shirt???

[David Moorings]

No not yet

 

So you disregarded all the pubs on the Wyrley & Essington? ? ? - !!!! I dont believe you have ever been along that canal!

 

 

About as complete as an airfix kit dropped down ten flights of stairs!

 

Thank you very much, obvously a lot of hard work to go. I'm a skinny widebeam wearer.

 

I think this is a success story in the making. Wish you all the best. I like idea of canal branded clothing. Can a thin guy like me where a widebeam shirt...and can a fat guy wear a narrowboat shirt???

[deletedaccount]

Just to clarify, pub owners do not write their own reviews they state how to find them, what sort of food, beer, entertainment they do.

 

We rule out pubs that we would not feel comfortable spending time in and look for the kind of pub that is inviting, generally has a good selection of drink and if they serve food that it is of good quality. This does rule out some but it means that people not familiar with the area are generally going to have a positive experience, we do all we can to find the best ones. That said different people have different preferences, this is why we feel that pictures and a description of a pub is useful.

 

I'm not sure why you're making me ask for a third time. It's paid advertising only, isn't it? That's completely up to you but you seem to be avoiding saying it.

Edited July 18, 2012 by deletedaccount

[David Moorings]

We are working on this issue, particularly after feedback from today

 

If you are seriously aiming this at boaters on the move then you need to set up a parallel version that is designed for mobile browsers - iPhones or other mobile devices. This is very common now, to divert an incoming user to a layout appropriate to their device.

 

Or at the very least, rework the existing layout so that is even a little sympathetic towards smaller portrait displays.

 

Sorr, missed that out, the pubs that want the editable function do pay a small surcharge to cover our costs for hosting. The pubs reaction to the site is positive on the whole and most that we approach understand the model and do not mind at all.

 

I'm not sure why you're making me ask for a third time. It's paid advertising only, isn't it? That's completely up to you but you seem to be avoiding saying it.

[Tuscan]

It's a good idea, the criticism you have had actually in the man is a positive , why don't you write a section of a specific canal and then open it up to the forum to comment on pubs, moorings, shops etc. good luck

[David Moorings]

Thank you, we have a small blogging section where people who want share their personal experiences along stretches of canals whether walking, by boat or bike, I enjoy reading those whenever a new one is submitted.

 

It's a good idea, the criticism you have had actually in the man is a positive , why don't you write a section of a specific canal and then open it up to the forum to comment on pubs, moorings, shops etc. good luck

[simon&jan]

Looks good , had no.problem with speed of down load , went straight in , could not comment on factual.content cos i aint got a boat see !

 

Good luck

[ditchcrawler]

It's a good idea, the criticism you have had actually in the man is a positive , why don't you write a section of a specific canal and then open it up to the forum to comment on pubs, moorings, shops etc. good luck

That's a good idea

[MartinClark]

We are working on this issue, particularly after feedback from today

 

You'll get more from me later.

 

Do you notice, David, that the usual practice in this forum is to reply underneath the text to which you are replying? And you can leave out parts of the previous message that you are not responding to.

 

I know some people like to reply to emails at the top but when you do that on this forum it can become rather confusing, especially when you reply to several people in quick succession and it all appears as one post. It starts to feel like one of those Two Ronnies "Mastermind" sketches!

 

Looks good , had no.problem with speed of down load , went straight in , could not comment on factual.content cos i aint got a boat see !

 

I ain't got a boat either! Do you need a boat to enjoy or know about canals?

[Tam & Di]

It's a good idea, the criticism you have had actually in the man is a positive , why don't you write a section of a specific canal and then open it up to the forum to comment on pubs, moorings, shops etc. good luck

 

 

One difficulty you will encounter is that places change fairly regularly, sometimes for good but sometimes for the worse. Probably less so for a pub than for a restaurant, but it does happen.

 

Then there are the selection criteria. It is still not clear if the major one is that the pub will pay for the entry, but if so that will have a major effect on the listings. At this stage you and your close colleagues are doing the selection, and probably have tastes in common. Once you get to accepting recommendations from the public you very quickly get to the point that there are no selection criteria. Dog owners, loud rock enthusiasts, folkies, fine ale people, foodies - each will love some but really hate the others. I've not checked any of the current entries but you will need some effective system that allows people to choose a pub they would like rather than one of the others. I would not want to plan a trip based on your recommendations and find that your tastes are not mine. It works for food guides such as Michelin, Gault Millau and so on, but their inspectors have common standards - e.g. I know what sort of food to expect from the various grades assigned by Michelin, and from those used by Gault Millau, but they are not the same, not those of Bottin Gourmand.

 

You've obviously got to start somewhere, but you have an enormous job in front of you to come up with something which is reliable and used by sufficient people to be financially viable (however that is). It is very important to set the right tone at an early stage.

 

Edited to add:

I've now managed to look at a few of the entries. The ones I read do seem to try to give a picture of what you will find, though they were seemingly written by the landlord and might just be biased.

 

Another functional quibble though for us with dongles: when I'd read one review I could not go staight back via a link to the rest of the local pubs - I had to go via the canal's "home page > pubs" again, making it more fiddly and likely to drop out in a poor reception area.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Tam & Di

[Dominic M]

Hi Dave. It has the makings of a good information site, and like any such project, it is bound to take a long time to build it up as information gets added, corrections are made and so forth. Just take a look at Canal Junction, a site that has evolved over years.

 

One thing you could do is to add the code needed so that it displays at the correct size for iPhone, iPad and Android. At the moment it just disappears way off the edges. If you want to PM me I can send you the code snippet to insert - I'm guessing yours is a Joomla! based site.

 

Good luck with the whole thing, especially when the first advertising revenue starts to trickle in

[David Moorings]

Hi Dave. It has the makings of a good information site, and like any such project, it is bound to take a long time to build it up as information gets added, corrections are made and so forth. Just take a look at Canal Junction, a site that has evolved over years.

 

One thing you could do is to add the code needed so that it displays at the correct size for iPhone, iPad and Android. At the moment it just disappears way off the edges. If you want to PM me I can send you the code snippet to insert - I'm guessing yours is a Joomla! based site.

 

Good luck with the whole thing, especially when the first advertising revenue starts to trickle in

 

After advice I am now responding in the right place, I hope.

You're right, with a small team taking on a heavy workload we could of spent 5 years in the BETA stage but there comes a time where one has to try and pay the mortgage. We are working on the mobile platform issue with i phone and android but your imput willl be much appreciated. I have left my e mail address on the thread and would be all too happy to hear from you. The complexity of the site and the size of the task at hand leads to things from spelling mistakes to the odd piece of inaccurate information, much of this is being ironed out by us over the coming days.

 

 

 

Edited to add:

I've now managed to look at a few of the entries. The ones I read do seem to try to give a picture of what you will find, though they were seemingly written by the landlord and might just be biased.

 

Another functional quibble though for us with dongles: when I'd read one review I could not go staight back via a link to the rest of the local pubs - I had to go via the canal's "home page > pubs" again, making it more fiddly and likely to drop out in a poor reception area.

 

The first page is written in consultation with the landlord, the 2nd page by them. We have at all times tried to give as honest information as we could ascertain from first impressions to the food, ales and wine on offer. Some may fancy a "2 for £10" meal, others something more in the gastro line, the way we have constructed the model is to give you a good idea of what to expect before going in and leave it up to you as to whether it's for you or not.

The function will be honed as we move forward, please be assured that we will improve all aspects as we move forward.

[Smelly]

Shouldn't there be a link to Canalworld on there somewhere?

[Grace and Favour]

Shouldn't there be a link to Canalworld on there somewhere?

 

Good God - no man!!

 

One doesn't want to take the advice of those folks - - they're all bonkers!

[David Moorings]

Good God - no man!!

 

One doesn't want to take the advice of those folks - - they're all bonkers!

 

Yes there will be a link going on, I discussed it with the site owner this morning. We don't have a designated link page at this point but

we'll be putting a link on the news pages for now and onto the link page once done.

[simon&jan]

 

 

 

 

 

I ain't got a boat either! Do you need a boat to enjoy or know about canals?

 

 

 

Meant to say yet , aint got a boat yet !

 

My point was , we havnt been anywhere so couldnt comment on spelling of places and pub knowledge !!

[oarfish]

Slight technical criticism, as many of us access the internet over 3G page optimisation is very important. There's lots of things you can do to speed up access and rendering of your site. Public caching is particularly effective for mobile access

 

Google page speed results

Edited July 18, 2012 by oarfish

[Laurie Booth]

Sorr, missed that out, the pubs that want the editable function do pay a small surcharge to cover our costs for hosting. The pubs reaction to the site is positive on the whole and most that we approach understand the model and do not mind at all.

So no pubs in Birmingham then.

[Paul C]

I'd suggest that the guide is only useful when its complete (the network effect). Otherwise, you'd possibly think "there's nothing there! I'm not going there!" when in fact there is loads of stuff, just that they've not subscribed to have their info on the website.

 

I'd suggest a 'placeholder' of an entry + basic information on EVERY pub on or near the canal network, so that at least the website visitor knows something is there. Sure, publicans can expand on this info, but the basic entry must be there. Same goes for hire boat firms, etc.

 

Maybe one day there will be a definitive guide to the canals where non-entry in it is commercial suicide but at the moment there's at least 3 guides, all competing for you to buy or use them so its not likely to occur very soon.

[MtB]

I agree with PaulC. The absence of so many pubs known to exist on the cut just creates doubt about the accuracy of the whole thing. I won't be using it as I simply don't trust the info.

 

A placeholder for every pub on the cut (including those currently shut) will add credibility in spades. The absense of a 'paid for' publican entry is also useful info. No reason for punter reviews not to be added to even the paceholder pubs. Site credibility will be mightily enhanced.

 

Mike