The canal guide website i've helped build

[Humphrey]

Just had a look at the website and was impressed. Like the URL as well. I personally will find it very useful.

[David Moorings]

Hi Martin,

I'm confident that you running the site that you do that you want to use as many resources as possible to build a complete picture, we wanted to glean as much info for each waterway as possible, whether it was by ourselves boating, walking or cycling canals and rivers, we had selected friends, family and people we met while making the site, whether Chesterfield Canal, Dudley or Lancaster Canal trust or my friends father in law who spent 20 years on the Thames. As well as this we have researched by book and internet to amass a vast volume of notes and information, it was primarily down to me to organise all the information and put it into some semblance of order and write the guides. I sat in a darkened room for 6 months writing all the guides and it would be nothing short of a miracle if I hadn't made the odd gaff, I can't stress clearly enough how much I would want to put any right.

 

Due to the nature of making sense of all that was put in front of me I condensed information and wrote all the guides from scratch, if I have made mistakes I am happy to correct them as I want our site to be as accurate as possible. If at any time I have inadvertently followed your guides too closely it is wholly unintentional and I am only too happy to rewrite. It is inevitable that your site was consulted as part of the process of researching the Northern Canals as I acknowledge that Pennine waterways is a great site but I was careful not to use more than just a few nuggets of information from you or anyone else and tried at all times to concentrate on phsical experience.

 

You have my email address, if you would like to contact me we would be happy to have links between our sites and discuss further cooperation if you feel that would be of benefit. In the meantime i'll look back over the Ashton and amend accordingly.

 

What? You mean you aren't really called David Moorings? How disappointing.

 

A clickable url would be useful. www.mooringsandmoor.com

 

I was really impressed until I read this on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal page:

"The Narrow officially ends before it passes through a bridge under a supermarket, this is strictly speaking the Ashton Canal by now, however most people prefer to think of it as ending at Dunkinfield Junction where the waterway meets with the Peak Forest Canal."

This is untrue. The HNC ends at Whitelands, below Lock 1w. Only people who don't know better think it continues to Dukinfield Junction. There are big signs at Whitelands saying "Welcome to the Huddersfield Narrow Canal" and "Welcome to the Ashton Canal". The canal west of there is not "strictly speaking the Ashton Canal" - it IS the Ashton Canal.

 

I would be happy to point out other things, should you wish. For example, the Ashton Canal page makes a lot of accidental references to the Ashby Canal.

 

I notice that you have copied some sentences word for word from my website but I didn't notice any acknowledgements of or links to other websites anywhere.

 

I wish you well with the site but I hope you are willing to listen to comments!

 

Yes, and quickly. No one means to make omissions or mistakes we try the best we can to make the best site we are capable of doing.

 

No worries, hopefully the 'launch' of the website on here by starting this thread will generate a bunch of suggestions/improvements and corrections to do, and you'll be able to sort all the things out that need sorting.

 

The coastal website will run side by side with the inland site and will take some time to build so we wouldn't be looking for sea faring types to find us just yet.

 

Unfortunately we have made the homepage as simple as we could, both in programming and content to ease the speed of connection. As by necessity we have to have the map function and the waterways list on the front page this is as quick as it gets for the time being. Also we are working on adaptive screensizes for different phones, for example the page size automatically resizes for blackberry but not i phone at this time, another job on my long list of things to sort.

 

I had mentioned before that we will be releasing a free to use i phone app that will negate the need for internet connection, it will work on the GPS function, but i'll be honest with you it is some way off.

 

 

I must admit I think the name IS important - if I was searching for a mooring site I'd be cross if the browser came up with a list of pubs, and conversely if I was looking for a canalside pub it would not occur to me to search under "Moorings". I can't really imagine how a coastal sailor would find the site except by accident or an ad in a yachting magazine, as they've probably got even less reason to search for "mooring/moor".

 

On the practical front, it may be because my connection is very poor, but it took a hell of a long time to load the home page and then even longer when I used the link to find a particular waterway.

 

I would just like to say thank you for all the constructive feedback I have had. All issues raised have been noted and are being worked on right now and probably well into the night.

[Laurie Booth]

I can't see how the pub information can be kept up to date.

[David Moorings]

The pub owners have login codes to their own pages and can update their content at will.

 

I can't see how the pub information can be kept up to date.

[dor]

A couple of comments...

 

Re the URL, can't you register a few more and have them point to the same site? Will help you get more hits and allow people to use a shorter URL while still retaining your preferred 'mooringsand moor'.

 

How will you keep the pub info up-to-date and accurate? All very well letting pub landlords update it, but if the pub closes they probably won't bother. And how will you get an unbiased review of the pub?

 

ETA: And you might have a bit more credibility among the waterways fraternity if you didn't use the term 'barge' to refer to narrowboats!

Edited July 18, 2012 by dor

[DaveC]

You have spelt the name of my home town incorrectly! It is DEVIZES.

 

I used to live near Marlborough and when I saw "The Swan Inn Marlborough I thought that was a pub I had never come across. It is of course the Swan at Wilton (probably postal address near Marlborough but Marlborough is not on the canal).

 

Should have done some more research before publishing I feel!!

 

Dave

Edited July 18, 2012 by DaveC

[mayalld]

Hello to all,

 

I have been in touch with Daniel, the canalworld site owner, who has very nicely allowed me to ad a link to the directory and suggested I write a post to introduce myself and the site I have taken 2 years out of my life to help build.

The site is called mooringsandmoor.com and a small team of 5 of us have taken a gamble on building the site which all but one of us has now given up work to see it come to life, I personally have been doing this full time for over 12 months as it was getting too hard to balance 2 jobs. After getting reassurance from Daniel I have left a link and explanation of the site in the links directory so I will try and not repeat myself.

 

 

OK, at a risk of being negative, and displaying a parochial aproach to how good the site is (which may well be a good idea - if everybody comments on the canal that they moor on then you get plenty of focussed feedback);

 

The site is dismally slow to load, and using the interactive map causes my PC to freeze for a period of time. A classic case of a "design" that probably works well on your local machine, but is crap over the web. You site is built with a focus on what you want to do, without reference to how well the features will actually work. A classic example of why web designers should always have a techie minder who knows nothing about what looks good, and is just there to say "no that won't work well".

 

Now to content, and looking at my local canal - The Peak Forest.

 

Very poor.

• You promise at least two pubs - none on this canal
• Apparently the canal is linked to the Ashby Canal - No, I think not, surely you mean the Ashton Canal
• Linked to the HNC - Well possibly, but only if you ignore the geography (as per Martin)
• "With narrowboat hire bases spread along the Macclesfield and Huddersfield Narrow Canal " - No
• "Around Ashton-under-Lyne the Huddersfield Canal veers to the left and the Peak Forest to the right at Dunkfield Junction" - No it doesn't, and this description only applies if you are heading from Manchester, and Dukinfield is misspelt.
• "Romily" - no, it is Romiley
• "a 2 mile stretch containing all 16 locks" - no, it is a mile
• The Lower Peak Forest is described at length, and the Upper Peak Forest (the popular bit) barely mentioned.
• "The canal runs to it’s end at Whaley Bridge but not before running through Bugsworth Basin " - no, Bugsworth is on an arm (or strictly speaking it is the main line, and Whaley Bridge is an Arm) you don't pass through one onto the way to the other.

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

I do hope Dave is taking all these comments in a positive way. Its a huge undertaking that they are embarking on and you only have to look at all the errors in the written guides and some of them have been going for years. The amount of data that can be added to his site is tremendous as we can see from the comments we have made about the waterways we know well.

[David Moorings]

Corrected the misspelling of Devizes, apologies.

The pubs provide us with the addresses, I have changed to Wilton regardless to avoid future confusion.

 

You have spelt the name of my home town incorrectly! It is DEVIZES.

 

I used to live near Marlborough and when I saw "The Swan Inn Marlborough I thought that was a pub I had never come across. It is of course the Swan at Wilton (probably postal address near Marlborough but Marlborough is not on the canal).

 

Should have done some more research before publishing I feel!!

 

Dave

[WJM]

The site is dismally slow to load, and using the interactive map causes my PC to freeze for a period of time. A classic case of a "design" that probably works well on your local machine, but is crap over the web. You site is built with a focus on what you want to do, without reference to how well the features will actually work. A classic example of why web designers should always have a techie minder who knows nothing about what looks good, and is just there to say "no that won't work well".

 

Very well put!

[David Moorings]

I'm taking on everything, it's frustrating making spelling mistakes but I have almost 100,000 words written just into the guides so occassional spelling mistakes are inevitable I regret. Easily remedied though.

I knew I was putting myself in the firing line but it is more important for me to get things right than protecting my pride, looking at what people have written really helps with that. Terms such as barge I know are contentious but we want to appeal to people who may never of spent time on the waterways as well and it's a fact that the term barge gets 4 times as many hits on google as narrowboat and the like, I have tried to avoid the term but we have to reflect what people are searching.

 

Extensive polishing up has been highlighted, I will be hunting for good pubs and shops etc up and down the waterways, including a trip to the Peak Forest Canal next week that someone has just pointed out a need for pubs and I may make the odd misspelling but it is coming together, and at something of an accelerated rate today!

 

Everything reasonable raised here today will be addressed.

 

 

 

 

I do hope Dave is taking all these comments in a positive way. Its a huge undertaking that they are embarking on and you only have to look at all the errors in the written guides and some of them have been going for years. The amount of data that can be added to his site is tremendous as we can see from the comments we have made about the waterways we know well.

[DeanS]

I disagree, I like it.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

 

 

SO DO I.

[David Moorings]

Mis-spellings corrected.

I'll be taking a bike ride on the upper Peak forest week after next and will add to the guide and find pubs.

 

I access the site from wireless connections accross the country and don't normally have difficulty with site speed.

Admittedly when using a dongle as many people on boats have to, then the site can run slowly but you could level that complaint at many larger sites out there, the map is an integral part of the site and it seems that is the main cause of slow down.

We will get our heads together to see how best to improve the situation.

 

OK, at a risk of being negative, and displaying a parochial aproach to how good the site is (which may well be a good idea - if everybody comments on the canal that they moor on then you get plenty of focussed feedback);

 

The site is dismally slow to load, and using the interactive map causes my PC to freeze for a period of time. A classic case of a "design" that probably works well on your local machine, but is crap over the web. You site is built with a focus on what you want to do, without reference to how well the features will actually work. A classic example of why web designers should always have a techie minder who knows nothing about what looks good, and is just there to say "no that won't work well".

 

Now to content, and looking at my local canal - The Peak Forest.

 

Very poor.

• You promise at least two pubs - none on this canal
• Apparently the canal is linked to the Ashby Canal - No, I think not, surely you mean the Ashton Canal
• Linked to the HNC - Well possibly, but only if you ignore the geography (as per Martin)
• "With narrowboat hire bases spread along the Macclesfield and Huddersfield Narrow Canal " - No
• "Around Ashton-under-Lyne the Huddersfield Canal veers to the left and the Peak Forest to the right at Dunkfield Junction" - No it doesn't, and this description only applies if you are heading from Manchester, and Dukinfield is misspelt.
• "Romily" - no, it is Romiley
• "a 2 mile stretch containing all 16 locks" - no, it is a mile
• The Lower Peak Forest is described at length, and the Upper Peak Forest (the popular bit) barely mentioned.
• "The canal runs to it’s end at Whaley Bridge but not before running through Bugsworth Basin " - no, Bugsworth is on an arm (or strictly speaking it is the main line, and Whaley Bridge is an Arm) you don't pass through one onto the way to the other.

Edited July 18, 2012 by David Moorings

[Machpoint005]

I'm not sure how to put this, but ... as we all know, half of what you read on Tinternet (and half of what you read in the press) is untrue. The problem is knowing which half.

 

So: I too had a look at the Macc and Peak Forest entries, since I know these canals rather better than any others. I'm somewhat disappointed, for reasons others have already mentioned.

 

However, the frequent spelling mistakes (meters are for taking readings, but distances are measured in metres) and elementary punctuation slips (grocers' apostrophes all over the place) are a serious turn-off. One may argue that typographical errors are acceptable but this is a published web site, not just a forum posting. I think anything less than a high standard of accuracy detracts from the appeal of the site.

 

Yes, there are factual errors - dozens of them. As just one example, the Marple flight is on the Peak Forest Canal, but whoever wrote the script thought they were on the Macc, and said so at least twice.

 

I don't find the site particularly slow. However, if the standard of accuracy about my local patch is any indication of the site as a whole, I'm afraid I won't be relying on any of the information any time soon.

[deletedaccount]

I really wanted to link to this for a friend but you list no pubs at all between trowbridge and bristol.

 

Did you consider a crowd sourced type model where people can add information on their local pubs? That way you'd have a wide coverage in a fairly short time, albeit with less editorial control. Works for trip advisor etc.

[Laurie Booth]

 

How will you keep the pub info up-to-date and accurate? All very well letting pub landlords update it, but if the pub closes they probably won't bother. And how will you get an unbiased review of the pub?

 

ETA: And you might have a bit more credibility among the waterways fraternity if you didn't use the term 'barge' to refer to narrowboats!

I agree, letting the owners of the pub do the reviews isn't very helpful.

I checked out the review for the French Horn on the K&A canal.

The owner states it is a dog friendly pub which is true. Sadly does't mention the place stinks of dogs and you come away from the place covered in dog hairs.

[bargiepat]

Hi ,

Site looking good and loads super fast on my 3 dongle............. I am currently on the Great Ouse and would point out that HARTFORD MARINA is not spelt with an 'E'

 

Good luck,

Patrick.

 

PS, The 'Oliver Cromwell' is a dog friendly pub in St Ives, Cambridgeshire and does NOT smell of dogs........

Edited July 18, 2012 by bargiepat

[Leonie]

Mis-spellings corrected.

I'll be taking a bike ride on the upper Peak forest week after next and will add to the guide and find pubs.

 

I access the site from wireless connections accross the country and don't normally have difficulty with site speed.

Admittedly when using a dongle as many people on boats have to, then the site can run slowly but you could level that complaint at many larger sites out there, the map is an integral part of the site and it seems that is the main cause of slow down.

We will get our heads together to see how best to improve the situation.

 

Yes, that's true, many of the sites which load poorly on wireless dongle connections frustrate us but it's extremely odd that a site which is allegedly being built for our use isn't taking our level of connectivity into question with regard to the design. I also find the colour scheme alarming but that's purely a personal aesthetic thing. It did prevent me sticking around and wanting to load more pages however so I'm unsure about the quality of the content.

 

The pub owners have login codes to their own pages and can update their content at will.

 

But they proabbly will not.

[deletedaccount]

The more I look at it the more I realise it's a very old school model. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the only pubs who appear on the map are the ones that pay the site for the privilege. They write their own pages and nobody is allowed to comment, good or bad.

 

Is that correct David M?

[Leonie]

I'm taking on everything, it's frustrating making spelling mistakes but I have almost 100,000 words written just into the guides so occassional spelling mistakes are inevitable I regret. Easily remedied though.

 

Employing an editor (or asking a friend to look over the site first) would have nixed the need for an easy remedy if this site is a serious commercial concern then you need to get place names spelled correctly.

[Laurie Booth]

Hi ,

Site looking good and loads super fast on my 3 dongle............. I am currently on the Great Ouse and would point out that HARTFORD MARINA is not spelt with an 'E'

 

Good luck,

Patrick.

 

PS, The 'Oliver Cromwell' is a dog friendly pub in St Ives, Cambridgeshire and does NOT smell of dogs........

If you are a dog owner, you won't be able to smell it.

[WJM]

If you are seriously aiming this at boaters on the move then you need to set up a parallel version that is designed for mobile browsers - iPhones or other mobile devices. This is very common now, to divert an incoming user to a layout appropriate to their device.

 

Or at the very least, rework the existing layout so that is even a little sympathetic towards smaller portrait displays.

[David Moorings]

It was one of many ideas, whichever route you take is flawed, crowd sourcing as well as our method. Our obstacle with hand picking pubs is time but we are progressing steadily and it will be better in the long run.

 

I'll have a look at the Bristol to Trowbridge area for you and try and schedule something in soon, we have 13 pubs along the central section but also need to get to the area between Newbury and Reading.

 

I really wanted to link to this for a friend but you list no pubs at all between trowbridge and bristol.

 

Did you consider a crowd sourced type model where people can add information on their local pubs? That way you'd have a wide coverage in a fairly short time, albeit with less editorial control. Works for trip advisor etc.

[deletedaccount]

"Hand picking pubs" is not the same as "only including pubs that pay you". Which is it?

 

In terms of the site functionality I think it's fine to take the google maps based approach btw, but I've not tried in on a phone or tablet.

 

It'd be great if you could incorporate lock/bridge information. There's an existing google maps based site that does this.

[Laurence Hogg]

"the BCN is built on three levels, the Birmingham, Walsall and Wolverhampton levels where the canals are heavily locked in between."

 

really? Well it may be to you but most of us could name at least six. Theres three locks down to Birmingham level and 8 if you want then to go onto the Walsall.

 

Also a substantial part of the BCN is missing on your map, it does exist in and around Birmingham and includes the Birmingham & Fazeley and the connection through Ashted to the Grand Union.

The Dudley canals are also an essential part of the BCN, they are missing!!

 

To be fair you say bugger all about what is around the BCN which seems to indicate a lack of proper research. Where is there a rural pocket on the Walsall canal? Plenty of derilict ex industrial ground but "rural" ?

There are attractions such as the renowned art gallery on the wharf in Walsall, superb pubs on the Wyrley at Bentley Brudge, Wednesfield, Willenhall, Pelsall & Brownhills, in Tipton on the old main line, and all round the parts of Birmingham you havent included, also on the Daw end and so on.

 

And as for moorings, theres Caggys yard, Norton Canes, Longwood, Hockley port, Sneyd to name some long term sites and there services with moorings all over the system. Theres a number of offside secure moorings ie Lane Head in Willenhall, the new moorings in Tipton.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Laurence Hogg