wolfie8832 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I’m looking for some advice on a Gardner 2LW engine. The engine is fitted to a narrow boat I have made an offer on, the boat been laid up for a while so starting was not easy but knowing the correct way to start engine up would of helped. I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a service manual or down load a PDF manual on line. Thank you again for your help and advice you have given me in the past. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Mark, I have a Gardner LW instruction manual in my computer. It is an "Acrobat" document though I am not sure what's so acrobatic about it. PM me your e-mail address and I shall be pleased to forward it to you. Mike PS is this boat advertised on the internet? A link would be good, so that we fellow Garner owners can gawp at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taslim Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I'm looking for some advice on a Gardner 2LW engine. The engine is fitted to a narrow boat I have made an offer on, the boat been laid up for a while so starting was not easy but knowing the correct way to start engine up would of helped. I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a service manual or down load a PDF manual on line. Thank you again for your help and advice you have given me in the past. Regards Mark I'm not smart enough to put up a link but type in Gardener 2lw manual & hit Gardener enthusiast. They have what you need. Why have I nothing better to do?? taslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I’m looking for some advice on a Gardner 2LW engine. The engine is fitted to a narrow boat I have made an offer on, the boat been laid up for a while so starting was not easy but knowing the correct way to start engine up would of helped. I was wondering if anyone knows where I could get a service manual or down load a PDF manual on line. Thank you again for your help and advice you have given me in the past. Regards Mark Internal fire (Internalfire.com) have all the manuals you are likely to need, in downloadable format. You do need to register, but that is only to stop the scrotes putting the manuals up on auction sites. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie8832 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Mark, I have a Gardner LW instruction manual in my computer. It is an "Acrobat" document though I am not sure what's so acrobatic about it. PM me your e-mail address and I shall be pleased to forward it to you. Mike PS is this boat advertised on the internet? A link would be good, so that we fellow Garner owners can gawp at it. Hi Athy when I try to send a PM to you it says this, The following errors were found The member Athy cannot receive any new messages This personal message has not been sent Am I doing some thing wrong Mark Edited June 24, 2012 by wolfie8832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Internal fire (Internalfire.com) have all the manuals you are likely to need, in downloadable format. You do need to register, but that is only to stop the scrotes putting the manuals up on auction sites. N The one they have for the LW is an early version. Useful, but unless you have an early engine a later version would be more use, especially if you end up buying the boat. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hi Athy when I try to send a PM to you it says this, The following errors were found The member Athy cannot receive any new messages This personal message has not been sent Am I doing some thing wrong Mark How disappointing for you. atherton (at) qcinternet (dot) co (dot) uk will reach me, or should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Contact Martyn at Marine Power Services, info@marinepowerservices.co.uk. He has proper Gardner marine engine manuals electronically. Ask him nicely and he will let you have copies. Tell him his dad sent you! Make sure that the cold start button is set on the injector pump before cranking it over. It should start effortlessly without fuss straight away. Contrary to the myth about Patricroft smog it should not smoke excessively. The engine beat should be level and balanced. If there is more than a wisp of smoke when warm it is either incorrectly set up or clapped out. To properly remanufacture a Gardner 2LW costs around £5k if you want it done properly. Of course the cowboys who will hone out the worn liners and stuff rings in it are out there if you prefer the cheap and bodged route! There are plenty of worn out Gardners out there. Ignore the shiny bits, concentrate on the smokes , rumbles and leaks! Edited June 24, 2012 by steamraiser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Contact Martyn at Marine Power Services, info@marinepowerservices.co.uk. He has proper Gardner marine engine manuals electronically. Ask him nicely and he will let you have copies. Tell him his dad sent you! Make sure that the cost start button is set on the injector pump before cranking it over. It should start effortlessly without fuss straight away. Contrary to the myth about Patricroft smog it should not smoke excessively. The engine beat should be level and balanced. If there is more than a wisp of smoke when warm it is either incorrectly set up or clapped out. To properly remanufacture a Gardner 2LW costs around £5k if you want it done properly. Of course the cowboys who will hone out the worn liners and stuff rings in it are out there if you prefer the cheap and bodged route! There are plenty of worn out Gardners out there. Ignore the shiny bits, concentrate on the smokes , rumbles and leaks! Interesting slip there Honing bores & fitting new rings is not always a bodge, it very much depends on condition of existing liners & pistons. Of course if you are building an engine to sell as remanufactured, that is another matter. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Mark, I have a Gardner LW instruction manual in my computer. It is an "Acrobat" document though I am not sure what's so acrobatic about it. PM me your e-mail address and I shall be pleased to forward it to you. Mike PS is this boat advertised on the internet? A link would be good, so that we fellow Garner owners can gawp at it. I think you need to have the Adobe acrobat installed to open them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Honing out worn out bores and fitting new rings IS a bodge! As I said cowboys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well, Bizz, I can open it so I must have that feature, or rather my computer must. Mark, has the engine been recently rebuilt? Is it from Walsh's engineering? Mine was, and for about the first three winters she was a PIG to start in very cold weather - she even blew a starter motor, which needed replacing. It was explained to me at the time that this was because the engine was not yet run in and was "tight", and it has proved to be correct: last winter, which was very cold, she started first time after only a few revs of the starter motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Honing out worn out bores and fitting new rings IS a bodge! As I said cowboys! If the bores are worn out, then of course it is a bodge. An engine isn't always stripped for overhaul because the bores are worn out, though. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well, Bizz, I can open it so I must have that feature, or rather my computer must. Mark, has the engine been recently rebuilt? Is it from Walsh's engineering? Mine was, and for about the first three winters she was a PIG to start in very cold weather - she even blew a starter motor, which needed replacing. It was explained to me at the time that this was because the engine was not yet run in and was "tight", and it has proved to be correct: last winter, which was very cold, she started first time after only a few revs of the starter motor. Yes most computers come with it pre-installed. It should be in your programs list in Control panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Yes most computers come with it pre-installed. It should be in your programs list in Control panel. I thought ALL Gardners smoked... Part of their charm I was once allowed to "drive" the Chiken Farmer's 4LW and was neatly choked to death. That was of course, before it got on the plane (runs for cover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Well, Bizz, I can open it so I must have that feature, or rather my computer must. Mark, has the engine been recently rebuilt? Is it from Walsh's engineering? Mine was, and for about the first three winters she was a PIG to start in very cold weather - she even blew a starter motor, which needed replacing. It was explained to me at the time that this was because the engine was not yet run in and was "tight", and it has proved to be correct: last winter, which was very cold, she started first time after only a few revs of the starter motor. Something not quite right if it was as tight as that sounds to have been. Re the honing out bores thing, I'll use the example of my own 4LW. There was about 1 to 1.5 thou wear on the bores at the top, & three of the pistons were in excellent condition. It had been run with poor lubrication by the last owner, one piston had 'picked up' at some point & scored that bore. I found one new block for less than the cost of fitting two new liners. Honed the other bores, fitted one new piston, & new rings to the others. Yes if I had money to burn I would have fitted all new pistons & liners, but I do not regard what I did as a bodge, but had I been doing the job for a customer I would have explained the situation & given them the choice of doing what I did, or fitting all new liners & pistons. If I was rebuilding to sell, it would have been the latter course. Edit to add that the one part I did bodge, for attention another day, was the fuel pump cambox. Fitted new bearings but the cams & tappets are not good. I'll be pleased if someone can point me to a serviceable 4LW cambox for reasonable money. Tim Edited June 24, 2012 by Timleech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) It's still a bodge although I understand your reasoning. Whatever you do you cannot hone material on to a liner. Overall the liner is oversized. When re-manufacturing the whole ethos is to rebuild the engine back to original tolerances. This is why we always fit new liners, pistons and rings. We don't repair engines and pass them off as overhauled. "Repaired" engines are sold as "used". Nothing wrong with overboring and fitting new pistons to the manufacturers specification but honing a worn or scored liner is only a "get you out of trouble" fix. You can have cheap or to original specification. It is not the same thing at all. Edited June 24, 2012 by steamraiser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn 1 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Something not quite right if it was as tight as that sounds to have been. Re the honing out bores thing, I'll use the example of my own 4LW. There was about 1 to 1.5 thou wear on the bores at the top, & three of the pistons were in excellent condition. It had been run with poor lubrication by the last owner, one piston had 'picked up' at some point & scored that bore. I found one new block for less than the cost of fitting two new liners. Honed the other bores, fitted one new piston, & new rings to the others. Yes if I had money to burn I would have fitted all new pistons & liners, but I do not regard what I did as a bodge, but had I been doing the job for a customer I would have explained the situation & given them the choice of doing what I did, or fitting all new liners & pistons. If I was rebuilding to sell, it would have been the latter course. Edit to add that the one part I did bodge, for attention another day, was the fuel pump cambox. Fitted new bearings but the cams & tappets are not good. I'll be pleased if someone can point me to a serviceable 4LW cambox for reasonable money. Tim TIm, the difference with your example from what Steamraiser2 is refering too, is that engine is yours and you are well aware of what has been done and what hasn't, and for maintaining an engine in use there is nothing wrong with that and nothing is hidden behind the glossy paint that the owner is not aware of. And this also applies to doing an in situe repair for a customer, you give them all the options from repaired to remanufactured and its up to them. The difference is when the engine in question has been sold as a remanufactured/reconditioned engine. which therefore should have everything within manufacturer tolerances to fit this description. Because of that description honing the bores and chucking some rings in, is very much a bodge.... I have been told in the not that distant past, from the horses mouth you may say, from another narrowboat engine reconditioner when I mentioned that we put new liners in all our engines, the response was "We just hone the ridge off and put in new rings". well If your honing off a ridge then it will most likely not be far off worn out, and to correctly repair this new liners should be fitted or oversize bored if you can find the pistons. Also I have ended up with a couple of engines in our workshop that within the last 5 years have been "reconditioned" by others and have taken the bottom ends of them to bits to find that they are completely knackered and have wear to levels of an engine that certainly wasn't done when it was supposedly done more like not touched since new. On another note and back to manuals, The LW marine parts manual and the proper Gardner marine operators instructions are available to view on our site Linky (Login needed but it is all free) and if people want copies of them and PM me asking nicely I will email them the PDF's. Also I have alot of other Gardner/Lister manuals including proper marine ones. Most that are floating around are the ones for automotive engines and they are different in some places. all of these are currently not online but are available. Cheers Martyn , Oh and to the OP, drop me a PM and I will sort you out with the manuals your after. Cheers Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie8832 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 How disappointing for you. atherton (at) qcinternet (dot) co (dot) uk will reach me, or should! Thanks sent email Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie8832 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Well, Bizz, I can open it so I must have that feature, or rather my computer must. Mark, has the engine been recently rebuilt? Is it from Walsh's engineering? Mine was, and for about the first three winters she was a PIG to start in very cold weather - she even blew a starter motor, which needed replacing. It was explained to me at the time that this was because the engine was not yet run in and was "tight", and it has proved to be correct: last winter, which was very cold, she started first time after only a few revs of the starter motor. Yes was rebuilt by Walsh's engineering, Engine was rebuilt 2009. The engine has been laid up for some time, the starter motor did not sound too good, But all I done was lift up decompression lever. It went eventually sounded really nice, Regards mark Edited June 24, 2012 by wolfie8832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I've had a look at the brokerage which you mentioned in your e-mail to me, and see that they have several boats with Gardners (lovely!). Which is yours? Titan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie8832 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) I've had a look at the brokerage which you mentioned in your e-mail to me, and see that they have several boats with Gardners (lovely!). Which is yours? Titan? Anglezark is the boat am looking into, Also thinking of renaming the boat Mark Edited June 24, 2012 by wolfie8832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn 1 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) With a good starter motor and batteries, press the cold start button on the underside of the injector pump and it should start very easily even down to about -10 Deg C. If its so tight that it burnt out a starter that isnt tight because it isnt run in, that is tight because it hasnt been put back together right. And usually eventually the the bits that are causing it to be tight bed in enough to free up hence the scenario you have had. We have test ran many a LW in the depths of winter after a full reconditioning to Gardner specs and they always start within a couple of turns with no more than the cold start button pressed. Regards Martyn Well, Bizz, I can open it so I must have that feature, or rather my computer must. Mark, has the engine been recently rebuilt? Is it from Walsh's engineering? Mine was, and for about the first three winters she was a PIG to start in very cold weather - she even blew a starter motor, which needed replacing. It was explained to me at the time that this was because the engine was not yet run in and was "tight", and it has proved to be correct: last winter, which was very cold, she started first time after only a few revs of the starter motor. Edited June 24, 2012 by martyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thanks Martyn - but mine has not got this cold start button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn 1 Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I expect it has as the same bit of injector pump that houses the cold start button also houses the injected pump rack buffer which without causes alot of idle speed issues. And also part of the cold start mechanism also acts as the rack stop so the pump doesn't over fuel during normal use. I would post a picture showing its location but im on my phone not pc. Looking at your injector pump with the levers nearest to you. on the left hand side of it there will be a housing stuck out with an approx 1 inch long hexagon bit threaded in the end. This bit is the idle buffer now if you look at the underside of the same housing you will see an approx 3/8 inch round button stuck out. Now this is the cold start button. It may be stuck if it has not been used for some time. When pressing this you should hear a click and see the rack move to the right. By pressing the button you have basically moved the stop out of the way which allows the pump to go to maximum fuel and hence cold start. I will post a picture when I get a chance but won't be back to my pc for a few weeks. Oh and if your engine is a very early one it may just have a small hole in place of the button and if this is the case you use a small screwdriver to do the same job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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