Solar Panels or Generator?

[KirraMisha]

Hi I am trying to make a decission on what to get and at present can only afford one or the other.

I have one 110 amp leisure battery and just need to run a laptop about 8 hours a day.

The laptop says its power draw is 65w maw.

 

My questions are would two 80w solar panels give me enough power or will a generator serve me better?

 

How long would a generator need to run to charge one 110amp battery?

 

The generator I am considering is a Clarke IG 1000 with a built in inverter the 12v battery charging is 5amps or would I be better of using a differnt battery charger?

 

Is it safe to run a generator in the engine well without risking electrocution when stepping on and off the boat?

 

Thanks.

[Robbo]

Read the link to the Victron document in this thread, it won't answer all your questions but it will give you a understanding that you'll need for power usage and generation on boats..

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43603

[Proper Job]

The panels will give you your required power in the Summer, but not in the Winter.

 

Do not run the generator in the engine well. It's a portable unit and should be in a well ventilated area (preferably on the bank). Never mind the risk of shock. The CO will probably get you first.

 

I'm sorry, but your whole thought process with regard to this seems a bit 'back of a fag packet' to me.

[KirraMisha]

The panels will give you your required power in the Summer, but not in the Winter.

 

Do not run the generator in the engine well. It's a portable unit and should be in a well ventilated area (preferably on the bank). Never mind the risk of shock. The CO will probably get you first.

 

I'm sorry, but your whole thought process with regard to this seems a bit 'back of a fag packet' to me.

Thanks Rob.

 

Proper Job I dont understand why you think my thought process is ''back of fag packet''.

The engine well is an outboard well with a platform above the water that would vent fumes perfectly and is no where near the cabin.

Would using a generator on the bank side not raise objections?

[matty40s]

I would say that 1 battery would not last very long with this type of regime, a couple may be a wise investment if you are working with lappy on board a lot.

For year round power, I would say genny, however, solar prices are coming down quickly and with an Mppt unit are powering your battery to some extent whenever the sun is up.

[blodger]

Thanks Rob.

 

Proper Job I dont understand why you think my thought process is ''back of fag packet''.

The engine well is an outboard well with a platform above the water that would vent fumes perfectly and is no where near the cabin.

Would using a generator on the bank side not raise objections?

In a way one 110ah battery is not enough to fully utilise 2 80watt solar panels and similarly it will be a bit wasteful running a genny just for a laptop or single battery.

 

Given that money is tight have you tried recycling batts from the local waste tip; I have

acquired several HillBilly golf 17ah (& even a 37ah) batteries that have charged up well and are useable for running the radio and laptop.

 

Since whatever you have you have to charge I would suggest a solar panel first (not paying much if anything above a 1.00 per watt) along with a second battery or more battery capacity as above.

Edited May 10, 2012 by blodger

[Domino_2]

We bought a generator (a suitcase one) over 5 years ago from The Green Reaper. Its done us very well and was far cheaper than many other makes of generator (ours was about £200, compared to over £1000 for a similar Honda one).

 

Have a look at their website before you make a decision.

 

Green Reaper

 

edit - our generator is used to charge 6 x 10amp batteries and does the job brilliantly when we don't feel like cruising

Edited May 10, 2012 by Domino_2

[bottle]

Generators,(240v ac) especially those with a 12v dc outlet do not charge batteries.

 

Chargers, charge batteries....generators (240v ac) can be used to 'run' chargers.

[mattlad]

 

Would using a generator on the bank side not raise objections?

 

Probably raise the odd thief. A friend of mine was watching TV when it suddenly went off. He jumped off his boat to see that some tea-leaf was walking down the towpath with bolt croppers in one hand, and his generator, still running, in the other hand!

[Leni]

We bought a generator (a suitcase one) over 5 years ago from The Green Reaper. Its done us very well and was far cheaper than many other makes of generator (ours was about £200, compared to over £1000 for a similar Honda one).

 

 

Reckon you were lucky if that was a Kipor generator you bought! We recently had three 'brand new' (they said, although we had out suspicions) Kipors, every one of which played up from the first minute, and were sent back one after the other! We finally invested in a Honda, which has run perfectly. In my experience you get what you pay for!

 

As for solar panels, much as I like the idea in principle, I just don't think we get enough sun in this part of the world to really make them worth getting. Anyway, if you covered the roof of the boat in solar panels, where would you put yer mop?

[jelunga]

Hi I am trying to make a decission on what to get and at present can only afford one or the other.

I have one 110 amp leisure battery and just need to run a laptop about 8 hours a day.

The laptop says its power draw is 65w maw.

 

My questions are would two 80w solar panels give me enough power or will a generator serve me better?

 

How long would a generator need to run to charge one 110amp battery?

 

The generator I am considering is a Clarke IG 1000 with a built in inverter the 12v battery charging is 5amps or would I be better of using a differnt battery charger?

 

Is it safe to run a generator in the engine well without risking electrocution when stepping on and off the boat?

 

Thanks.

My view for what it is worth.

You have a 110 ah battery and want to run an 85 w laptop. I am assuming it it 85w at 12 v not at mains voltage.

That equals 40 ah from the battery nominal. You should normally never discharge a battery below 50% state of charge. Your laptop use will take you down to 70ah= around 63% SOC. in actual fact your battery will almost never be at 100% SOC at the begining and will lose capacity as soon as you start using it. In reality just your laptop use will use all your potential battery capacity leaving no surplus for lights, pumps, bilge pump or any other service.

In conclusion it will not work. Your battery is too small and will expire in as short a time as 3 months with this kind of useage.

I would suggest that you need at least twice that battery capacity, more if possible with the ability to produce enough power to recharge the battery within 6 hours.

Edited May 10, 2012 by jelunga

[jelunga]

Thanks Rob.

 

Proper Job I dont understand why you think my thought process is ''back of fag packet''.

The engine well is an outboard well with a platform above the water that would vent fumes perfectly and is no where near the cabin.

Would using a generator on the bank side not raise objections?

Proper Job is right. For safety do not run a portable generator on the boat. Fumes can get blown into the cabin or accumulate in the bilge. Yes, you can see a few idiots on the cabals with genys hnder cancas covers on foredecks with the exgaust pointing overboard. Most of the time it may work. But death is final. Why raje a stupid risk?

But hej, it is your life. Kill yourself if you want.

Edited May 10, 2012 by jelunga

[Grace and Favour]

Proper Job is right. For safety do not run a portable generator on the boat. Fumes can get blown into the cabin or accumulate in the bilge. Yes, you can see a few idiots on the cabals with genys hnder cancas covers on foredecks with the exgaust pointing overboard. Most of the time it may work. But death is final. Why raje a stupid risk?

But hej, it is your life. Kill yourself if you want.

 

Are we having a 'Scandinavian moment'?

[Ex- Member]

Personally using solar panels is a no brainer, any generator is going to burn fuel and cost a hell of a lot more in the long run than solar panels. I would only use a generator as a back up charging system for bad weather as their basically a pain to run from a boat. In the winter you could add panels to compensate. you need to double your battery bank at minimum though, personally I would go for 3 at 110 at least then you would have a couple of days possibly more of stored power should bad weather reduce good charging from solar.

[KirraMisha]

Personally using solar panels is a no brainer, any generator is going to burn fuel and cost a hell of a lot more in the long run than solar panels. I would only use a generator as a back up charging system for bad weather as their basically a pain to run from a boat. In the winter you could add panels to compensate. you need to double your battery bank at minimum though, personally I would go for 3 at 110 at least then you would have a couple of days possibly more of stored power should bad weather reduce good charging from solar.

Thank Julynian I think that is what I will hae to do and get hold of some more 110's.

 

Generators,(240v ac) especially those with a 12v dc outlet do not charge batteries.

 

Chargers, charge batteries....generators (240v ac) can be used to 'run' chargers.

I am confused as it says on the generator specs it charges 12v dc at 5amps and its the same kind of socket you get on a honda outboard for charging.

Is it rubbish in reality?

Are generators in a box off the back of the boat safe, as Ive seen a few of those?

Ive heard of someone having their generator thrown in the canal when it was on the bankside.

[jelunga]

Are we having a 'Scandinavian moment'?

We are. I much prefer hej to hey. Æs well ås thøse lævely characters!

 

Thank Julynian I think that is what I will hae to do and get hold of some more 110's.

 

 

I am confused as it says on the generator specs it charges 12v dc at 5amps and its the same kind of socket you get on a honda outboard for charging.

Is it rubbish in reality?

Are generators in a box off the back of the boat safe, as Ive seen a few of those?

Ive heard of someone having their generator thrown in the canal when it was on the bankside.

Probably annoying somebody by being loud, before 0800 or after 2000 hrs,

But that is always going to be a problem if you need more power than you have stored in your batteries after 2000.. Not much solar power after that time most of the year, not allowed to run generator or boat engine either.

You are permitted to run engibe/generator after 2000hrs if nobody else is in earshot. So moored away from any buildings and with ni other boat in sight maybe.

[KirraMisha]

Proper Job is right. For safety do not run a portable generator on the boat. Fumes can get blown into the cabin or accumulate in the bilge. Yes, you can see a few idiots on the cabals with genys hnder cancas covers on foredecks with the exgaust pointing overboard. Most of the time it may work. But death is final. Why raje a stupid risk?

But hej, it is your life. Kill yourself if you want.

Its a fiberglass cruiser not a narrowboat otherwise I would have been dead by now from using my outboard would'nt I!

''back of fag packet'' isnt helpfull.

 

We are. I much prefer hej to hey. Æs well ås thøse lævely characters!

 

 

Probably annoying somebody by being loud, before 0800 or after 2000 hrs,

But that is always going to be a problem if you need more power than you have stored in your batteries after 2000.. Not much solar power after that time most of the year, not allowed to run generator or boat engine either.

You are permitted to run engibe/generator after 2000hrs if nobody else is in earshot. So moored away from any buildings and with ni other boat in sight maybe.

I think it was just teenage lads taking the mick in this case.

I dont have any electric pumps and use a mop for what bildge I do have if and when I need it although I do have a bildge pump.

I use a candle in the sink and that light up the whole cabin or a solar lamp.

Looking at how much mobile broadband is costing me I may well just get an Ipad on a data tarrif for a monthly cost and save on battery power too and leave using the power hungry laptop.

Thanks.

Edited May 10, 2012 by KirraMisha

[Robbo]

Its a fiberglass cruiser not a narrowboat otherwise I would have been dead by now from using my outboard would'nt I!

 

Although fumes is one aspect, storage of petrol (I presume this is in a safe area if your boat was built with a outboard?). Filling the genny should be done off the boat (petrol fumes been heavier than air like).

 

Looking at how much mobile broadband is costing me I may well just get an Ipad on a data tarrif for a monthly cost and save on battery power too and leave using the power hungry laptop.

Thanks.

 

You'll find the latest iPad quite hungry as well, not as bad as a laptop though. Use Three's pre-pay over 3 or 12 months, if you use around a gig a month. 12gb/12month was around £52 last time I looked.

[blackrose]

Reckon you were lucky if that was a Kipor generator you bought! We recently had three 'brand new' (they said, although we had out suspicions) Kipors, every one of which played up from the first minute, and were sent back one after the other! We finally invested in a Honda, which has run perfectly. In my experience you get what you pay for!

 

It's funny that you hear both good and bad reports about Kippor generators (mainly good), so I guess a percentage of bad ones get through quality control and perhaps you hit a bad batch. Like you, I've also owned a couple of Hondas on different boats and would never buy anything else, but if I had to choose between a Kippor and a Clarke, the Kippor would win hands down. Clarke really are a load of (noisy) carp!

Edited May 10, 2012 by blackrose

[Arthur Brown]

Whatever power output your panels will give, you should get 5 hours worth per day in the peak summer, spring and autumn you may get 2 hours of rated power, but in the winter you will get NO useful power, so without a generator you are only on line for six months a year.

 

The 12v output on a generator is useless! 12v 100w is all you can hope for off even a 3K generator, so you need to consider a charger. You need to put 80% of the power used back into the battery in 2 - 3 hours, then either put the last bit in over the next 3 hours, or let the solar do it for you for no fuel.

 

With your present consumption your battery is very low capacity and double that (or more) would be better.

[Justme]

 

You have a 110 ah battery and want to run an 85 w laptop.

That equals 40 ah from the battery nominal. You should normally never discharge a battery below 50% state of charge. Your laptop use will take you down to 70ah= around 63% SOC. in actual fact your battery will almost never be at 100% SOC at the begining and will lose capacity as soon as you start using it. In reality just your laptop use will use all your potential battery capacity leaving no surplus for lights, pumps, bilge pump or any other service.

In conclusion it will not work. Your battery is too small and will expire in as short a time as 3 months with this kind of useage.

I would suggest that you need at least twice that battery capacity, more if possible with the ability to produce enough power to recharge the battery within 6 hours.

 

Whilst I agree the bat bank is to small you have made a few mistakes that make a big difference.

 

Its 65w not 85w.

You have assumed that it will be using 65watts for the full 8 hours of use. In reality it only uses that whilst running the laptop & charging the bats at the same time. In my experience an hours worth of charge time can run the laptop for over 1.5 hours & in some cases 2.5 (so 2.5 to 3.5 hours in total if used whilst charging). So 8 hours of running would only use about 2.5 hours of charging time.

 

 

So 65w x 2.5h = 163wh or about 13ah.

[blodger]

Whilst I agree the bat bank is to small you have made a few mistakes that make a big difference.

 

Its 65w not 85w.

You have assumed that it will be using 65watts for the full 8 hours of use. In reality it only uses that whilst running the laptop & charging the bats at the same time. In my experience an hours worth of charge time can run the laptop for over 1.5 hours & in some cases 2.5 (so 2.5 to 3.5 hours in total if used whilst charging). So 8 hours of running would only use about 2.5 hours of charging time.

 

 

So 65w x 2.5h = 163wh or about 13ah.

 

And, One 80 watt solar panel could well average that daily over the next few months so well worth say 100 squid outlay

[jelunga]

Its a fiberglass cruiser not a narrowboat otherwise I would have been dead by now from using my outboard would'nt I!

''back of fag packet'' isnt helpfull.

 

 

I think it was just teenage lads taking the mick in this case.

I dont have any electric pumps and use a mop for what bildge I do have if and when I need it although I do have a bildge pump.

I use a candle in the sink and that light up the whole cabin or a solar lamp.

Looking at how much mobile broadband is costing me I may well just get an Ipad on a data tarrif for a monthly cost and save on battery power too and leave using the power hungry laptop.

Thanks.

I have seen several narrow boats with outboards. Does not change my view of generators on boats.

I wish you joy. Vv

[jelunga]

Whilst I agree the bat bank is to small you have made a few mistakes that make a big difference.

 

Its 65w not 85w.

You have assumed that it will be using 65watts for the full 8 hours of use. In reality it only uses that whilst running the laptop & charging the bats at the same time. In my experience an hours worth of charge time can run the laptop for over 1.5 hours & in some cases 2.5 (so 2.5 to 3.5 hours in total if used whilst charging). So 8 hours of running would only use about 2.5 hours of charging time.

 

 

So 65w x 2.5h = 163wh or about 13ah.

Woah there. I only used the info from the op about how much his/her laptop used. Apart from the 20w error. But we do not even know if rhat is 12v or mains.

As it is the OP seems determined to take risks with petrol genys on a plastic boat so I am out of here.

Edited May 10, 2012 by jelunga

[Justme]

 

But we do not even know if that (wattage) is 12v or mains.

 

 

 

It matters not if it is at 12v or 240v apart from the inverter losses.

 

A watt is a watt.