Freak wave sinking........

[Higgs]

...... I don't want any arguements with an insurance company should the worst happen.

 

My Boat Safety is due. A conversation with a fellow boater led me to consider the effects of future alterations and removing/replacing items. I was fairly easy-going, but he was quite adamant. Boat Safety invalidated.

[Teadaemon]

With reference to BSS certificates, then as has been said, like an MOT they're an indication of the state of the boat at the time of the test. If work is done to the boat subsequently then there's no requirement to get another test. OTOH, at least on the Broads, in addition to requiring a BSS certificate every four years, there is also a requirement on boat owners to maintain their boat to the standard of the BSS. Whilst this isn't checked every time work is done, if an incident happened or a boat was inspected and found not to be in compliance, then an offence would have been committed.

[Higgs]

With reference to BSS certificates, then as has been said, like an MOT they're an indication of the state of the boat at the time of the test. If work is done to the boat subsequently then there's no requirement to get another test. OTOH, at least on the Broads, in addition to requiring a BSS certificate every four years, there is also a requirement on boat owners to maintain their boat to the standard of the BSS. Whilst this isn't checked every time work is done, if an incident happened or a boat was inspected and found not to be in compliance, then an offence would have been committed.

 

Plenty of enthusiast DIY'ers on the canals. Well, I think my adamant fellow boater had a point. Think I'll get things ok'd for peace of mind. Insurance companies are slippery things.

[ditchcrawler]

I don't think the BS chaps are to bothered whether it floats or not.

[Higgs]

I don't think the BS chaps are to bothered whether it floats or not.

 

Not until their inspectors find oversights.

[matty40s]

I don't think the BS chaps are to bothered whether it floats or not.

 

The chap who tested mine didn't bring any equipment to test whether mine was floating or not.

[MtB]

I'm in the middle of an extensive refit of my kitchen (galley if you prefer). This has involved moving and refitting gas pipes to the cooker and boiler. The gas work will be finished this weekend and a mate of mine (who is 'gas safe' registered) is going to check it for me and give me a ticket.

 

...... I don't want any arguements with an insurance company should the worst happen.

 

 

PJ, Gas Safe Registration is not binary, it is a multi-tiered qualification. Is you mate GSR with an LPG ticket AND the 'gas on boats' ticket? If not then he will be deemed to be working 'out of scope' and no more capable of approving your work than you are.

 

In addition, neither you nor he would appear to have read this, on the Gas Safe Register website:

 

"It is not acceptable for someone who is not Gas Safe registered to fit an appliance or do other gas work and then have the work checked by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Both parties would be breaking the law."

 

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Who%20can%20legally%20work%20on%20a%20gas%20appliance.pdf

 

My personal interpretation of the law is that this only applies to liveaboards though.

 

Mike

 

I wonder what was lacking about the 'boat been in a seaworthy condition', no valid BSS?

Anyone actually know?, or are we (as usual) speculating?

 

Speculating.

 

ISTR early reports (possibly on this board) that the boat was being navigated with the weed hatch missing.

 

Hope that helps with the speculation

 

Mike

[Guest]

Speculating.

 

ISTR early reports (possibly on this board) that the boat was being navigated with the weed hatch missing.

 

Hope that helps with the speculation

 

Mike

 

Ah.. yes well that would do it....just about

[Higgs]

"It is not acceptable for someone who is not Gas Safe registered to fit an appliance or do other gas work and then have the work checked by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Both parties would be breaking the law."

 

Mike

 

 

Now I'm a criminal. But, had it checked by a relevant Gas Safe (boat) registered engineer. Another criminal. The chap who will do my boatsafety, another trangressor.

 

There goes the neighbourhood.

[MtB]

Now I'm a criminal. But, had it checked by a relevant Gas Safe (boat) registered engineer. Another criminal. The chap who will do my boatsafety, another trangressor.

 

There goes the neighbourhood.

Now don't be silly. You're only a CRIMINAL if you live aboard.

 

I agree with you, its stupid really. But how else would you draft a law to stop incompetent peeps installing gas?

 

I'm only telling you what the law says. I didn't draft it.

 

 

Mike

 

Ah.. yes well that would do it....just about

 

Just about????

 

Have you ever looked through an open weed hatch at a rotating prop and seen the turbulence?!

[Proper Job]

Now I'm a criminal. But, had it checked by a relevant Gas Safe (boat) registered engineer. Another criminal. The chap who will do my boatsafety, another trangressor.

 

There goes the neighbourhood.

Oh dear.....

 

That puts me in the same boat as you (so to speak)

[Guest]

Just about????

 

Have you ever looked through an open weed hatch at a rotating prop and seen the turbulence?!

 

I was being ironic Mike - of course I know leaving a weed hatch off will sink a boat PDQ...

[Higgs]

Now don't be silly. You're only a CRIMINAL if you live aboard.

 

I agree with you, its stupid really. But how else would you draft a law to stop incompetent peeps installing gas?

 

I'm only telling you what the law says. I didn't draft it.

 

Mike

 

Not getting at you. It was in quotes and lifted.

 

As a live aboard, I can't help having a safe gas system, checked and passed. Not going to strip it out, it's against the law. If people aren't allowed to fit gas fittings, they should only sell bits to registered engineers to safeguard the law. But, chandlers would have something to say about that, I expect.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Higgs

[ditchcrawler]

I was being ironic Mike - of course I know leaving a weed hatch off will sink a boat PDQ...

Not always, a Hudson trad is normally OK as isThe Tuesday Night boat Ernest

 

Not getting at you. It was in quotes and lifted.

 

As a live aboard, I can't help having a safe gas system, checked and passed. Not going to strip it out, it's against the law. If people aren't allowed to fit gas fittings, they should only sell bits to registered engineers to safeguard the law. But, chandlers would have something to say about that, I expect.

If you don't live aboard you can do your own work on your gas system as I understand it, but not on someone else's unles you hold the right bits of paper.

[Proper Job]

Now don't be silly. You're only a CRIMINAL if you live aboard.

 

I agree with you, its stupid really. But how else would you draft a law to stop incompetent peeps installing gas?

 

I'm only telling you what the law says. I didn't draft it.

 

 

Mike

 

Don't get me wrong Mike. I agree that you've got to start somewhere as far as the law is concerned. It's just one of those things that virtually impossible to monitor and police (until something goes wrong).

 

The people who are doing the right thing and get their installations checked are usually the ones who get it right (are competent) in the first place. It the DiY'er who makes do a mends who puts himself at risk (and others) and doesn't see the need to get things checked.

 

I'm not a great fan of the current BSC system. Only because it's to infrequent (4 years between inspection is a joke) and (in my opinion) doesn't cover enough - especially with some of the complex electrical/charging systems that you see on boats now.

 

BTW - I used to be Corgi registered for commercial and domestic gas installations but let it lapse as I couldn't warrent the cost of maintaining the registration in comparison to the amount of gas work I did.

[Eeyore]

Another insurance coy rip off and cop out

Hi Jelunga

There are plenty of other things in insurance small print for us to have a go at

Steve

Edited April 27, 2012 by Eeyore

[mayalld]

 

If you have access to confidential information, such that you cannot share that information, then it is also highly improper to actually say "I have confidential information that proves X".

 

By all means make general remarks about the fact that there are concievable circumstances that would make the insurer right, but you really shouldn't go further.

Edited April 27, 2012 by mayalld

[jelunga]

Hi Jelunga

The information I have access to is classed as confidential.

I can however tell you that in this case your comment is wide of the mark.

Please do not ask me to elaborate.

There are plenty of other things in insurance small print for us to have a go at

Steve

 

I refer you to my previous answer where I withdrew that remark.

[jonathanA]

 

"It is not acceptable for someone who is not Gas Safe registered to fit an appliance or do other gas work and then have the work checked by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Both parties would be breaking the law."

 

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Who%20can%20legally%20work%20on%20a%20gas%20appliance.pdf

 

 

FOr goodness sake lets apply some common sense and not let the nanny state mentality spoil boating as well as every other activity bar breathing !!!

 

If I choose to re-pack my stern gland and I'm not a qualified marine engineer does this invalidate my insurance - of course not unless I'm a complete numpty and don't bother to put any packing back in or leave the nuts off or something that would fall far short of what a reasonable or competent person would expect. How many of us change our own oil/filters....were not all 'manufacturer approved service agents' are we...

 

As for the BSS worthy though it is how many actual injuries or deaths has it prevented ? no body can say but its reasonable to assume it has but were not talking many are we.... It seems to be preoccupied with Gas, petrol and diesel return pipes but completely ignores things like correct hull/neutral/earth bonding of electrical systems...

 

Lets remember that Gas safe, like corgi before them are profit making organisations and i would dispute their interpretation of the law. I think if you read it carefully its talking about appliances and not say gas pipework. Its just the same as part P electrical, people tell me I can't do any electrical work unless i'm registered as a 'competent person' under that scheme - errant nonsense firstly anyone is allowed to make certain limited changes or additions and secondly the requirement is that either a competent person inspects the work and issues a certificate or local building control are notifed and they do the inspection.

 

Let keep the nanny state away from the canals I say !

Edited April 27, 2012 by jonathanA

[Eeyore]

I refer you to my previous answer where I withdrew that remark.

Sorry, missed that.

Will edit reply

Steve

 

If you have access to confidential information, such that you cannot share that information, then it is also highly improper to actually say "I have confidential information that proves X".

 

By all means make general remarks about the fact that there are concievable circumstances that would make the insurer right, but you really shouldn't go further.

Point taken.

I have edited my reply, please could you remove the offending text from your post?

Thanks

Steve

[Higgs]

FOr goodness sake lets apply some common sense and not let the nanny state mentality spoil boating as well as every other activity bar breathing !!!

 

Lets keep the nanny state away from the canals I say !

 

I don't think the likes of B&Q and ScrewFix are going to lose any sleep. DIY is popular and fits within a self-reliant attitude that you find around boating.

 

Demarcation lines were a big disadvantage to industry. You couldn't pick a spanner up without the fitters threatening a strike, back in the 70's.

 

We have Health and Safety now. Good and bad.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Higgs

[TTtrad]

I read with sadness the thread about the nb Little Nell that sank near Rawcliffe Bridge at the start of the year, there seemed to be some question about the newspaper claim that there were 15 foot waves and it would seem that must have been exageration.

 

I was even sadder to read in the latest Towpathtalk that they were not covered by insurance in the end.

 

The insurance company covered the cost of salvage but "declined Mr Brown's claim for his boat as we found that it had not been kept in seaworthy condition. it is a requirement of the insurance policy that the insured does everything possible to adequately maintain and safeguard their vessel"

 

Out of interest and for my own future reference does anyone know what specifically they failed to do that gave the insurance company their reason for refusing to pay out?

 

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, I couldn't find it, but reading the whole article seems to intimate that 'regular servicing', or maybe in this case lack of, may have lead to their present sad situation and some negating clause for the insurance. They obviously believed at the time they were covered.

 

When the owner told me the story of how he's boat sank I had to ask myself "Do I look gullible or something" he said a freak wave hit him head on flooding the boat and killing the engine, once the wave had passed it came back and hit him again hence the sinking of the boat. Having been on that stretch of water a week before and using it regular I had to bite my lip to stop myself from laughing, why were no other boats affected as he was only a few hundred yards from Rawcliff bridge moorings??? maybe the insurers never paid out as he had altered the boat by making/cutting the air vents in the engine bay larger to stop his old engine from over-heating and with excessive weight on the stern deck(old engine parts) making the rear even lower in the water, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do the math's(large holes close to water-line + weighted rear deck + choppy windy conditions + Dubious large wave = sunk boat = no insurance pay out)

[tillergirl]

When the owner told me the story of how he's boat sank I had to ask myself "Do I look gullible or something" he said a freak wave hit him head on flooding the boat and killing the engine, once the wave had passed it came back and hit him again hence the sinking of the boat. Having been on that stretch of water a week before and using it regular I had to bite my lip to stop myself from laughing, why were no other boats affected as he was only a few hundred yards from Rawcliff bridge moorings??? maybe the insurers never paid out as he had altered the boat by making/cutting the air vents in the engine bay larger to stop his old engine from over-heating and with excessive weight on the stern deck(old engine parts) making the rear even lower in the water, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do the math's(large holes close to water-line + weighted rear deck + choppy windy conditions + Dubious large wave = sunk boat = no insurance pay out)

 

And it also begs the question as to why he is trying to sell it on !!! Sounds like a disaster in the making to me.

 

 

 

[TTtrad]

Everyone knows the guy at Thorne(Bluewater) I doubt he'll get any takers if he is trying to sell, mind you we all had to laugh when the story was published in the local paper, for once we had something in common with the local fisherman a tall story "oh you should of seen the one that got away it was a monster" replied with "oh you should of seen the wave that I just survived it was as high as a house a monster" or tales to that effect over a pint in the local