Smart Gauge battery Monitor

[Robbo]

Yes the DC1 seems to be a Smartgauge with a few bells and whistles. The DC2 must be the device Gibbo was talking about, combining SG with AH counting to give what I suspect will be a pretty good system. Good that it's got a CANBUS interface but I wonder whether the protocols will work with either the Masterbus or Empirbus that we have on our boat. My Christmas list needs updating!

 

 

I'm looking at this http://www.osukl.com/monitoring/3410-DC-Monitor.html, haven't done my research but it should be compatable with Empirbus NXT stuff.

[dmr]

 

I'm looking at this http://www.osukl.com/monitoring/3410-DC-Monitor.html, haven't done my research but it should be compatable with Empirbus NXT stuff.

 

But is this not just another amp-hour counter with all the resulting limitations? The Merlin device contains Gibbos unique state of charge algorithm which surely sets it head and shoulders above an amp-hour counter?.

 

..........Dave

[Justme]

Sadly still no support for 48v.

 

They could double their market if they added 48v support as all the off gridders would be interested in one too.

[Robbo]

 

But is this not just another amp-hour counter with all the resulting limitations? The Merlin device contains Gibbos unique state of charge algorithm which surely sets it head and shoulders above an amp-hour counter?.

 

..........Dave

 

Believe "Gibbos unique state of charge algorithm" was due to the fact that the original Smartguage only measured the Voltage.

[dmr]

 

Believe "Gibbos unique state of charge algorithm" was due to the fact that the original Smartguage only measured the Voltage.

 

Yes it was. The new device appears to combine this "voltage only" state of charge measurement with a shunt to measure current. This is attractive for several reasons..

1 Many of us like to monitor amps so now we will only need a single instrument.

2 A much better indication of state of charge during charging should be possible.

3 (the big one) A direct measure of state of health becomes possible. This could potentially include "degree of Sulphation" but the data sheet is very low on detail so I do not know if it does this.

 

..............Dave

[Paul C]

 

But is this not just another amp-hour counter with all the resulting limitations? The Merlin device contains Gibbos unique state of charge algorithm which surely sets it head and shoulders above an amp-hour counter?.

 

..........Dave

 

I'll take actually measuring something (amp hour counter) over an algorithm from a vaguely related property (voltage) any day. In any case, other manufacturers' amp-hour counters have been also measuring voltage and using a similar algorithm to relate voltage and amp-hour counting to counteract the limitations you mention. Whether the DC2's combination of measuring amp-hours, voltage and an algorithm is much better than others, remains to be seen, but looks promising (given the independent testing they cite).

 

Still no price though?

[bottle]

I will take a guess at price, £250 or possibly twice that of the existing Smartgauge, £330.

[dmr]

I will take a guess at price, £250 or possibly twice that of the existing Smartgauge, £330.

 

They appear to be aiming primarily at the military market and so I dread to even think what the price might be.

Us canal boaters like to think we are the centre of the universe but in terms of business for battery monitoring equipment I suspect we are pretty insignificant.

I suspect its the military connection which has dictated an RS232 interface rather than USB. When did you last see an RS232 socket on a laptop!!

 

...........Dave

[Paul C]

I will take a guess at price, £250 or possibly twice that of the existing Smartgauge, £330.

 

Rather than guesses at the price I have emailed Merlin. I've been asked how many batteries to monitor and whether I want the remote panel, I'll let you know when I receive the price. It appears Merlin will sell direct - I thought they only sold through the retailers listed on their website.

[bottle]

Good on you Paul, I only guessed because so many people kept on about the price.

[Paul C]

Okay, make sure you are seated:

 

 

Please see below details on Merlin Datacell II with Remote panel

 

19-6031 Merlin Datacell II + LCD or LED Panel - 1 battery bank £533.13

19-6032 Merlin Datacell II + LCD or LED Panel - 2 battery bank £559.58

 

Prices exclude VAT & carriage

[bottle]

Guess I will be sticking with the existing Smatgauge then.

 

£639.75 and £671.49 (rounded down ) plus p&p

[dmr]

Okay, make sure you are seated:

 

 

Disappointed but not really surprised.

Did you get a price for the box and shunt without the display module????

Maybe one of the multitude of electronic engineers on this forum could then offer a DIY display based on a Rasberry Pi or something similar ???

 

..............Dave

[Paul C]

The first thing I did was get a price for a Victron BMV602S - £142. You can buy an awful lot of other boating stuff for £530 or so difference.

In fairness, you'd also need to add £100 for Victron's connection kit (serial interface).

[nb Innisfree]

I think a standard SG together with a BMV won't give as accurate a SoC as a Datacell alone

[Paul C]

I think a standard SG together with a BMV won't give as accurate a SoC as a Datacell alone

 

I suspect you're right, but at the price difference, I don't think its enough of a difference.

[nb Innisfree]

 

I suspect you're right, but at the price difference, I don't think its enough of a difference.

Depends how anal you are!

[Paul C]

Depends how anal you are!

 

Or your perception of the value of money, or how much excess of it you have, etc

[Doorman]

Okay, make sure you are seated:

 

Just delisted my Smartgauge from EBay.......

 

 

That price adds up to many lost pints of Guinness!

[starman]

So...I have a Smartgauge/Smartbank system which was suitably simple for this boater of little electrical intellect to install and use.

 

But I would like to be able to check amps to enable me to keep a closer eye on what's using how much and also to double-check the on-going state of my batteries. (I've read in the forum that the Smartgauge 'percentage' is a measurement of what your batteries are capable of at the time rather than what they were theoretically capable of when new.)

 

What's the simplest way to do this (bearing in mind limited theoretical and practical skills)? Should I get a Victron monitor?

[nicknorman]

So...I have a Smartgauge/Smartbank system which was suitably simple for this boater of little electrical intellect to install and use.

 

But I would like to be able to check amps to enable me to keep a closer eye on what's using how much and also to double-check the on-going state of my batteries. (I've read in the forum that the Smartgauge 'percentage' is a measurement of what your batteries are capable of at the time rather than what they were theoretically capable of when new.)

 

What's the simplest way to do this (bearing in mind limited theoretical and practical skills)? Should I get a Victron monitor?

I would say "yes". I have both a SG and an amp-hour counting device. The combination gives you a very good idea what is going on. It is quite a lot harder to install such a thing though, compared to the SG, due to the need to wire the shunt into the high current carrying cables.

[Paul C]

So...I have a Smartgauge/Smartbank system which was suitably simple for this boater of little electrical intellect to install and use.

 

But I would like to be able to check amps to enable me to keep a closer eye on what's using how much and also to double-check the on-going state of my batteries. (I've read in the forum that the Smartgauge 'percentage' is a measurement of what your batteries are capable of at the time rather than what they were theoretically capable of when new.)

 

What's the simplest way to do this (bearing in mind limited theoretical and practical skills)? Should I get a Victron monitor?

 

The cheapest thing would be to get a cheap shunt ammeter from China, eg from eBay. Don't expect it to arrive quickly though, and don't be surprised if it doesn't work. It took me 3 attempts over a number of months to get on which half worked - ie it displays amps discharged, but doesn't show amps charging, despite the advert saying it does. It was about £10 though. This frustration led me to look for a more sophisticated/reliable battery monitor. I looked at Smartgauge but the fact that it doesn't even measure amps is a real negative for me. I waited in anticipation for the improved one. Now its here, and knowing the price, I've dismissed it. I had looked at the Victron BMV602 before and it looks good but wanted to wait for the new smartgauge to compare with.

 

There doesn't seem to be a middle option between spending £10 on a cheap semi-working meter and £250 on a proper battery monitor with lots of features etc. If there is.....please let me know!

[nicknorman]

This has been discussed before and I can't remember the outcome, but I would want an AH counting gauge to automatically calculate Charge Efficiency Factor, which not only will make the gauge more accurate on partial cycles, but also gives a good indication that battery(s) are dying of old age. My Mastervolt offering does this, I am not so sure about the Victron one, and the manual is not clear on this point. Of course the MV gauges are more expensive...

[by'eck]

I know its not for everyone, but for the many battery savvy folk on this forum, a voltmeter across each battery bank and a shunt based ammeter on service bank should (if you know what to expect) give you all the information you need. Embellishments could be extra shunts at various critical points in your DC system, such as specifically measuring alternator outputs. Familiarity with readings against charge times will give an indication when batteries are on the way out or at least when capacity is reduced. Physical checks (SG) on electrolyte of open cell batteries will help as well of course.

 

I always temper amp hour count and SOC readouts with above.

 

A lot of people seem to spend a lot of time checking how accurate their Smartguage is, which sort of begs the question why they should have one anyway. For others it seems an excellent solution though.

Edited December 10, 2013 by by'eck

[smileypete]

So...I have a Smartgauge/Smartbank system which was suitably simple for this boater of little electrical intellect to install and use.

 

But I would like to be able to check amps to enable me to keep a closer eye on what's using how much and also to double-check the on-going state of my batteries. (I've read in the forum that the Smartgauge 'percentage' is a measurement of what your batteries are capable of at the time rather than what they were theoretically capable of when new.)

 

What's the simplest way to do this (bearing in mind limited theoretical and practical skills)? Should I get a Victron monitor?

 

For quick spot checks and diagnosis, consider a handheld DC clamp ammeter like a Unitrend UT203 or Mastech MS2108A, about £25 online via Ebay or £40 from Maplins.

 

 

 

The cheapest thing would be to get a cheap shunt ammeter from China, eg from eBay. Don't expect it to arrive quickly though, and don't be surprised if it doesn't work. It took me 3 attempts over a number of months to get on which half worked - ie it displays amps discharged, but doesn't show amps charging, despite the advert saying it does. It was about £10 though. This frustration led me to look for a more sophisticated/reliable battery monitor. I looked at Smartgauge but the fact that it doesn't even measure amps is a real negative for me. I waited in anticipation for the improved one. Now its here, and knowing the price, I've dismissed it. I had looked at the Victron BMV602 before and it looks good but wanted to wait for the new smartgauge to compare with.

 

There doesn't seem to be a middle option between spending £10 on a cheap semi-working meter and £250 on a proper battery monitor with lots of features etc. If there is.....please let me know!

 

If you can post links to the meters that didn't work and the one that did that may help others looking for one.

 

For a decent 'combo' meter that does volts and amps and amp hours, check out the offerings from the Ebay seller 'elite.element' (google).

 

When buying ammeters the key things to bear in mind is look for one that can run on the same supply that's being measured, and buy from a more specialist seller rather than the 'sell anything and everything as cheaply as possible' brigade, though there are the odd exceptions...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited December 10, 2013 by smileypete