Power management systems

[Jamesb4uk]

Morning all,

 

Well 8 months in im still having a whale of a time as a live aboard - with a lot of useful info gained from here

 

Now the time has come (in a few months) for a crane out & a blacking.

 

That side of things has been arranged, however im taking the oppertunity to update some of the boat interior - its a 1980 springer with some scary electronics.

 

Im going to redo the whole 12v system inside & pop in a Power management system as i have no warning on how much im using or what state the batteries are in.

 

Now the question is what should i put in? i have 1 starter battery & 2 in the domestic bank.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

James

[Nickhlx]

Morning all,

 

Well 8 months in im still having a whale of a time as a live aboard - with a lot of useful info gained from here

 

Now the time has come (in a few months) for a crane out & a blacking.

 

That side of things has been arranged, however im taking the oppertunity to update some of the boat interior - its a 1980 springer with some scary electronics.

 

Im going to redo the whole 12v system inside & pop in a Power management system as i have no warning on how much im using or what state the batteries are in.

 

Now the question is what should i put in? i have 1 starter battery & 2 in the domestic bank.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

James

 

 

I think the Smartgauge is a great piece of kit if you want a "fit and forget" type of item... A voltmeter, shunt and ammeter and a hydrometer will also tell you a lot, and having all will tell you the most assuming you know how to interpret...

 

 

Nick

[Theo]

I think the Smartgauge is a great piece of kit if you want a "fit and forget" type of item... A voltmeter, shunt and ammeter and a hydrometer will also tell you a lot, and having all will tell you the most assuming you know how to interpret...

 

 

Nick

 

I would agree if what you are wanting to do is measure what you have. She smartguage will give all you need to know about the state of both battery banks. All you need to the engine battery is voltage. It gives that. It lso gives the percentage charge for the domestic bank too, and a voltage reading for that if you should need it.

 

I fitted Smartbank advanced, which includes a relay operated split charge system and Smartguage and think it is excellent!

 

Nick

[Jamesb4uk]

thanks guys - i was lookingat the Smart guage too.

 

Basically i want to outfit her for possible CC'ing later on so am fitting a Galvanic isolator, battery charging unit & 2 new deep cycle batteries for the domestic side.

 

 

James

[Sir Nibble]

thanks guys - i was lookingat the Smart guage too.

 

Basically i want to outfit her for possible CC'ing later on so am fitting a Galvanic isolator, battery charging unit & 2 new deep cycle batteries for the domestic side.

 

 

James

If you are equipping her for CCing you might want to look again at the galvanic isolator. Where will you be plugging in?

[Jamesb4uk]

CC'ing is a long ways off yet

 

But its one of the things i want to install now so i dont have to worry about later on.

 

James

[dmr]

Sadly the perfect monitor does not exist and so you really need two, especially if you a CC'er.

Smartguage is good because its a simple and moderately accurate direct display of state of charge.

Smartguare also does voltage, but not current.

A measure of current really helps to understand which things are using up the electricity, and that the charging system is working. Its also a good way of knowing when the batteries are fully charged (with limitations). I would probably go for the Sterling unit as this does amp-hours too.

If you have wet batteries with reasonable access then a hydrometer is very good to have as this is the only way to really measure the state of charge, though not something you want to be doing every day.

When you become a CC'er all this equipment will be essential, and battery performance will become an obsession, second only to worrying about if you have got the right sort of bog.

 

..........Dave

[Nickhlx]

Sadly the perfect monitor does not exist and so you really need two, especially if you a CC'er.

Smartguage is good because its a simple and moderately accurate direct display of state of charge.

Smartguare also does voltage, but not current.

A measure of current really helps to understand which things are using up the electricity, and that the charging system is working. Its also a good way of knowing when the batteries are fully charged (with limitations). I would probably go for the Sterling unit as this does amp-hours too.

If you have wet batteries with reasonable access then a hydrometer is very good to have as this is the only way to really measure the state of charge, though not something you want to be doing every day.

When you become a CC'er all this equipment will be essential, and battery performance will become an obsession, second only to worrying about if you have got the right sort of bog.

 

..........Dave

 

Agree - I have the Victron Inverter and VE.Net system for monitoring that came with the boat, but it didn't show state of charge, so added a Smartgauge for that.. Both are useful in their own ways though and would do the same again..

 

Nick

[jelunga]

I have the smart gauge, Adverc alternatir controller and the Adverc DCM monitor. Smartgauge gives percent charge in domestics and voltage of domestic and engine battery.

Adverc DCM can give voltage and amps in/out on 4 different circuits, with a low voltage audible alarm.

So I have it set to monitor volts and amps on Donestic bank1, bank2 and solar/ wind chargers. Also engine battery volts.

Seems to work for me

[jonathanA]

at the risk of being a heretic...

 

you'd be better advised (imho) to buy a (decent) voltmeter and get excel and use one of the freely available power audit Excel spreadsheets to work out what you're using and how much battery capacity you need. I assume from the fact you have 2 domestic batteries that your boat is not packed full of power hungary applicances and gadgets

 

can't help but think the several hundred pounds you'd spend on smart gauge and shunt ammeters and alternator controllers could be spent on another battery or two and a bigger alternator if you've only got one or the existing domestic one isn't a decent size

 

I bought a clamp ammeter for about £25 quid and if I want to know how much current somethings making/using then I use the clamp ammeter on the appropriate cable. it doesn't need any installation or setting up comes in its own case and is fully portable ! (Its actually a multimeter so I can check voltages, and continity test so really useful for checking out all manner of minor (and major) electrical issues. )

 

just a different point of view for you to perhaps consider on the 'KISS' - keep it simple stupid principle.

 

Jon

[by'eck]

Sterling Power Products have recently introduced this 54mm hole mount amp hour display using smart shunts. It will also display the voltage at three different sources. As well as numerical readout the unit changes colour to indicate differing activity on the batteries its monitoring.

 

 

The shunt calculates the current flow on site then transmits the data digitally to the display for greater accuracy. Its available as a package with a 100 amp shunt for £108.25 with 200 amp as an option. Can be fitted in positive or negative cable.

 

Worth a look I would have thought.

[dmr]

at the risk of being a heretic...

 

you'd be better advised (imho) to buy a (decent) voltmeter and get excel and use one of the freely available power audit Excel spreadsheets to work out what you're using and how much battery capacity you need. I assume from the fact you have 2 domestic batteries that your boat is not packed full of power hungary applicances and gadgets

 

can't help but think the several hundred pounds you'd spend on smart gauge and shunt ammeters and alternator controllers could be spent on another battery or two and a bigger alternator if you've only got one or the existing domestic one isn't a decent size

 

I bought a clamp ammeter for about £25 quid and if I want to know how much current somethings making/using then I use the clamp ammeter on the appropriate cable. it doesn't need any installation or setting up comes in its own case and is fully portable ! (Its actually a multimeter so I can check voltages, and continity test so really useful for checking out all manner of minor (and major) electrical issues. )

 

just a different point of view for you to perhaps consider on the 'KISS' - keep it simple stupid principle.

 

Jon

 

Jon

 

You are correct that fitted boat instruments cost much more than reasonable quality "portable" instruments.

I think its a philosophical thing...

For most of us living on a boat is a quality of life decision, and having suitable instruments and feeling in control of what is going on is a good feeling. Expecting the lights to go out, waiting weeks for an engineer, and then paying the bill is not a good thing.

Most boats have the engine tucked away in a nasty cold and wet hole under the rear deck and going there on a cold day to look at a clamp on meter is not nice.

Its going to be £350 ish to get a Smartguage and battery monitor, more if you pay to have them fitted for you, but if the information that they provide prevents just one breakdown that requires an engineer to fix then its probably paid for itself.

 

My batteries went down to 59% today, they are now charging at about 55amps, in a couple of hours this will be down to about 10 amps and the voltage will be just over 14.8, its just good to know all this stuff and check it everyday (but then I am a sad engineer)

 

..........Dave

[jonathanA]

Jon

 

You are correct that fitted boat instruments cost much more than reasonable quality "portable" instruments.

I think its a philosophical thing...

For most of us living on a boat is a quality of life decision, and having suitable instruments and feeling in control of what is going on is a good feeling. Expecting the lights to go out, waiting weeks for an engineer, and then paying the bill is not a good thing.

Most boats have the engine tucked away in a nasty cold and wet hole under the rear deck and going there on a cold day to look at a clamp on meter is not nice.

Its going to be £350 ish to get a Smartguage and battery monitor, more if you pay to have them fitted for you, but if the information that they provide prevents just one breakdown that requires an engineer to fix then its probably paid for itself.My batteries went down to 59% today, they are now charging at about 55amps, in a couple of hours this will be down to about 10 amps and the voltage will be just over 14.8, its just good to know all this stuff and check it everyday (but then I am a sad engineer)

 

..........Dave

thks Dave

 

i don't disagree - my boat didn't even have a voltmeter when i bought it, needless to say I've got one for the starter and one for the domestics now. not sure how smartgauge et al will prevent a breakdown to be honest. my simple voltmeters will tell me if there's problem with the alternator thats not obvious from the big red lamps and buzzer. I'm not a liveaboard so state of the batteries isn't such a big issue for me, but yes if your trying to decide when to run engine/generators/put up windmill etc then I guess information is power quite literally !

 

cheers

 

Jon

[Roger Gunkel]

Although the Smartguage probably gives a more accurate SOC reading, I bought the more economical NASA BM1 about 3 years ago. It shows SOC, amps in and out, voltage and time to full charge or discharge at current rate. It currently shows that my solar panels are putting 5.4amps into the system, SOC at 93% and the voltage. I recalibrate every 3 months or so to allow for bank deterioration, whereas I believe the Smartguage self calibrates.

 

It's easy to fit, been completely reliable and readings compare favourably with my occasional hydrometer and clamp meter checks, price is around the £100 mark

 

Roger

[Jamesb4uk]

Thanks all,

 

Seem's there are a few alretnatives around for me to look at

 

The only indicator on my boat at the moment is a voltmeter for the starter battery so i have plenty of options for adding in a decent system.

 

James

[leeco]

Sterling Power Products have recently introduced this 54mm hole mount amp hour display using smart shunts. It will also display the voltage at three different sources. As well as numerical readout the unit changes colour to indicate differing activity on the batteries its monitoring.

 

 

The shunt calculates the current flow on site then transmits the data digitally to the display for greater accuracy. Its available as a package with a 100 amp shunt for £108.25 with 200 amp as an option. Can be fitted in positive or negative cable.

 

Worth a look I would have thought.

 

 

Where would I get one of these at that price you say?

 

I have been getting prices for £196

Edited February 13, 2012 by leeco