CaRT Council Nomination

[alan_fincher]

I'm putting this very specific point in a separate thread so as not to derail the more important main discussion on the topic.

 

But I have noted something on the forms published today that possibly needs challenge, unless I am completely misinterpreting it.

 

Part of the information that must be completed for reach of the 10 sponsors, (and indeed the candidate themselves) is.....

 

Boat Licence Number: (This must be a 12 month canal or river boat licence that will be valid on the 18th January 2012).

 

Now correct me if I am wrong, but this is neither your BW Customer Number, nor your BW Boat Index Number, (both of which you might have some hope of being able to find out quite quickly from paperwork you might hold) is it ?

 

I think "Boat Licence Number" could easily be interpreted as a unique number printed on your licence, but which probably changes for each year of issue, and quite probably printed nowhere but on the licence.

 

If I'm right, how many of us not actually resident on our boats could actually find that number without a trip to the boat ?

 

Also if the licence number quoted must be for a licence valid on 18th January, what happens about the large number of people who renew on 1st January, (which I think will be more than one twelfth of all licences, as all Gold licences I think have to run from that date).

 

It seems a very good chance that you chosen sponsor may well not be able to find out the required number and get it and a signature on a form in good time for returning them by mid-January.

 

Why couldn't they just have had you supply your boat INDEX number, and they could use their usual checking mechanisms t see if you did hold a valid 12 month licence on January 18th ?

 

Or have I got all that wrong, somewhere, and am worrying about nothing ?

 

Views ?

[Alan de Enfield]

.....

Now correct me if I am wrong, but this is neither your BW Customer Number, nor your BW Boat Index Number, (both of which you might have some hope of being able to find out quite quickly from paperwork you might hold) is it ?

 

I think "Boat Licence Number" could easily be interpreted as a unique number printed on your licence, but which probably changes for each year of issue, and quite probably printed nowhere but on the licence.....

 

 

I think you may be correct - on my Licence are printed two numbers (in addition to the boat index number) - the first I believe gives your mooring location to the nearest BW 'Asset' (in my case RT -046-002) then there is an eight digit number - I believe that this is the 'licence number'.

 

I have kept the letter that came with the 'tear off' licences and nowhere is that licence number quoted (Customer number and Index numbers only)

 

I have retained the invoice that came with the licence and again no reference to the 'licence number' (Customer Number and Index number only)

 

Totally irrelevant but the printing is so far 'out of line' on my Licence 'discs' (The top of the index number is above the tear off perforations) that '71117' looks like 'iiiii' (but without the dots)

[David Schweizer]

I have our January 2012 licence in front of me. There are three numbers on it, one is the the Boat index Number, another is the Mooring location code, so assume that the number at the bottom is the the Licence Number, which is the same as the Invoice number.

 

Anyone who has retained their Craft Licence Invoice can retrive their licence Number by referring to the Invoice Number.

[Alan de Enfield]

...., so assume that the number at the bottom is the the Licence Number, which is the same as the Invoice number.

 

 

Well spotted (I hadnt noticed that) but you are correct - they are the same.

[mayalld]

I'm putting this very specific point in a separate thread so as not to derail the more important main discussion on the topic.

 

But I have noted something on the forms published today that possibly needs challenge, unless I am completely misinterpreting it.

 

Part of the information that must be completed for reach of the 10 sponsors, (and indeed the candidate themselves) is.....

 

 

 

Now correct me if I am wrong, but this is neither your BW Customer Number, nor your BW Boat Index Number, (both of which you might have some hope of being able to find out quite quickly from paperwork you might hold) is it ?

 

 

I'm fairly sure that what is required here IS the Index number

[David Schweizer]

I'm fairly sure that what is required here IS the Index number

Why? surely if they meant Index number they would have asked for that.

 

The Index Number confirms nothing other than the fact that a boat is recorded with that number. By asking for the Licence (Invoice) number they can quickly accertain whether you have actually possess a current licence.

[cotswoldsman]

Why? surely if they meant Index number they would have asked for that.

 

The Index Number confirms nothing other than the fact that a boat is recorded with that number. By asking for the Licence (Invoice) number they can quickly accertain whether you have actually possess a current licence.

 

I had that thought myself. I guess I will have to call BW for my licence number as my new licence has not caught up with me yet.

[mayalld]

Why? surely if they meant Index number they would have asked for that.

 

The Index Number confirms nothing other than the fact that a boat is recorded with that number. By asking for the Licence (Invoice) number they can quickly accertain whether you have actually possess a current licence.

 

Because whoever designed the forms wasn't being precise with words.

 

The index number is just as effective in checking that you hold a licence.

[David Schweizer]

Because whoever designed the forms wasn't being precise with words.

 

The index number is just as effective in checking that you hold a licence.

You may be correct. I have just phoned Watford and the person I spoke to believes that it is the Index Number that is required, but has promised to check and phone back confirming (or otherwise).

 

I will report the outcome.

[alan_fincher]

My internet has been down - thanks Virgin!

 

I agree they probably mean Index Number, but it doesn't say that, it says Licence Number.

 

I believe Index Number would make far more sense, and cause far less issues about licences, (particularly Gold ones) up for renewal at the times we are talking about.

 

All I am trying to ensure is that a whole load of candidates don't get disqualified because they said one thing, and mean another. Or that people go to a load of expense collecting sponsor info, only to be told they need to do it again.

 

So far, I am not impressed with their attempts to run an election.

 

1) No indication has really been given about what is expected of someone performing the roles, or the level of commitment expected to be effective in them, (which I assume will not be inconsiderable).

 

2) How you vote, how many votes, and how counted is not stated anywhere I can find on the official site where you get the forms. (If it is single transferable vote, it should be explicitly stated there, with a description how it works - not left to people to try and ferret out the information!).

 

3) The fact that something as basic as how you prove your eligibility as a licence holder on Jan 18th is open to this much ambiguity, and needs clarifying shows a distinct lack of thought in my view.

 

4) Last time I looked, questions I have raised on the web-site have not been acknowledge, let alone answered, (I haven't been able to get on to it today so far, though).

 

I'm not deterred, but they could, I feel, have done much better.

[Sir Nibble]

Either this election is under the control of a shocking incompetant or it is not seen as important enough to bother with getting it right. The possibility that it doesn't matter because the results are already in is not to be countenanced. One way or another though, dreadful, completely dreadful demonstrating an utter contempt for the whole idea that boaters should be represented.

[ditchcrawler]

I used my boat registration number

[Rebotco]

Either this election is under the control of a shocking incompetant or it is not seen as important enough to bother with getting it right. The possibility that it doesn't matter because the results are already in is not to be countenanced. One way or another though, dreadful, completely dreadful demonstrating an utter contempt for the whole idea that boaters should be represented.

 

 

The election is through ELECTORAL REFORM SERVICES. I would assume they are independent of BW and CaRT.

But certainly insufficient detail has been forthcoming and it does appear to be hastily and sloppily organised.

 

The following link to FAQs may assist those considering standing for the Council.

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/24729.pdf

 

Brian

[David Schweizer]

The election is through ELECTORAL REFORM SERVICES. I would assume they are independent of BW and CaRT.

But certainly insufficient detail has been forthcoming and it does appear to be hastily and sloppily organised.

 

The following link to FAQs may assist those considering standing for the Council.

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/24729.pdf

 

Brian

From my discussion with the ERS last week, I gathered the impression that they will be managing the election process when voting starts, but that the nomination forms are being written and collated by BW.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I had this communication from Waterscape today, via their 'Disqus' forum. Dave may not have had time to see and relay it:

Hi David - it's the SAP transaction number or licence renewal reference usually starting with 20 that we're after.

 

david mayall wrote:

 

Can you confirm that "Licence Number" as requested on the forms means the BW Index Number of the boat, rather than the SAP transaction number on the licence disc that changes each year.

[cotswoldsman]

I had this communication from Waterscape today, via their 'Disqus' forum. Dave may not have had time to see and relay it:

 

 

I imagine a lot of nominations will become void, presuming that question refers to nominations

 

I used my boat registration number

 

Better get it back quick

[Guest]

Well if true that effectively knackers any nomination I may have already made or will make because I have no idea what the bleedin' SAP transaction number is as the licence is on the boat in the bloody window where I an legally required to display it and I am unlike;y to be at the boat before nominations close.

 

This has all the hall marks of an utter shambles in the making....

 

I will see if I can dig out any receipt for the licence - I guess this may/will have this number on....

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

I will see if I can dig out any receipt for the licence - I guess this may/will have this number on....

 

I just dug mine out from the e-mail receipt BW sent me when I renewed online. All the paper stuff (including the licence of course) is on the boat.

[cotswoldsman]

Well if true that effectively knackers any nomination I may have already made or will make because I have no idea what the bleedin' SAP transaction number is as the licence is on the boat in the bloody window where I an legally required to display it and I am unlike;y to be at the boat before nominations close.

 

This has all the hall marks of an utter shambles in the making....

 

I will see if I can dig out any receipt for the licence - I guess this may/will have this number on....

 

Sounds good to me if only Livaboards get the vote

 

I just dug mine out from the e-mail receipt BW sent me when I renewed online. All the paper stuff (including the licence of course) is on the boat.

 

Thanks for that tip, have my number now.

[Guest]

 

I have kept the letter that came with the 'tear off' licences and nowhere is that licence number quoted (Customer number and Index numbers only)

 

I have retained the invoice that came with the licence and again no reference to the 'licence number' (Customer Number and Index number only)

 

 

Now dug mine out and the same here...... :angry:

[alan_fincher]

I had this communication from Waterscape today, via their 'Disqus' forum. Dave may not have had time to see and relay it:

Hi David - it's the SAP transaction number or licence renewal reference usually starting with 20 that we're after.

 

david mayall wrote:

 

Can you confirm that "Licence Number" as requested on the forms means the BW Index Number of the boat, rather than the SAP transaction number on the licence disc that changes each year.

 

I imagine a lot of nominations will become void, presuming that question refers to nominations

 

Yes, it would be fairly crap if they reject every applicant who assumed it meant Index Number, and has relied on that!

 

I also don't know where the "usually starts with a 20" comes from, as that appears to be wrong, as I think the licences on both my boats commence '90', not '20'. Not a very helpful way of confirming you are using the right number!

 

So it seems that they have come up with a scheme that relies on you able being able to read the number of your licence, (which should be on the boat, so not easily accessed by many non live-abords), or you having access to the invoice that they issued you when you last renewed, (which I expect a lot of people will not have).

 

And none of this addresses the question about how it will work with licences that renew on Jan 1st, (which as I said I think includes everybody with a Gold licence), and which people don't even need to have applied for yet, let alone actual have in their possession. (Quoting the number from your current licence that expires on Dec 31st would appear not to meet the requirement).

 

I see the possibility unless they get their act together very quickly, of an awful lot of people shouting "foul".

 

Pretty poor, I'd say - very frustrating.

 

EDIT:

 

In the words of Victor Meldrew "I don't believe it!!.

 

If you accept the answer to Dave's question above, the Licence Renewal Number, does start with '20', but is none of the numbers we have discussed.....

 

It is not your BW customer number

It is not your BW boat index number

It is not even the different number that appears on your licence each year (which for me are 8 digit numbers starting '90')

 

There is yet another number on a renewal, your renewal number that does start '20', but is a number of the format 20123456 / 1234. (The number you key in if you do your renewal online).

 

The CaRT nomination forms don't ask for a renewal number, they ask for a licence number.

 

So is the answer on 'Disqus' actually wrong ?

Edited December 13, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Guest]

Yes, it would be fairly crap if they reject every applicant who assumed it meant Index Number, and has relied on that!

 

I also don't know where the "usually starts with a 20" comes from, as that appears to be wrong, as I think the licences on both my boats commence '90', not '20'. Not a very helpful way of confirming you are using the right number!

So it seems that they have come up with a scheme that relies on you able being able to read the number of your licence, (which should be on the boat, so not easily accessed by many non live-abords), or you having access to the invoice that they issued you when you last renewed, (which I expect a lot of people will not have).

 

And none of this addresses the question about how it will work with licences that renew on Jan 1st, (which as I said I think includes everybody with a Gold licence), and which people don't even need to have applied for yet, let alone actual have in their possession. (Quoting the number from your current licence that expires on Dec 31st would appear not to meet the requirement).

 

I see the possibility unless they get their act together very quickly, of an awful lot of people shouting "foul".

 

Pretty poor, I'd say - very frustrating.

 

 

I have several old licences in 'The Dog House' file at home and all of them begin with 90 too.

 

as above mine does not have this number on it (renewed by post-not on line though)

[jenlyn]

Yes, it would be fairly crap if they reject every applicant who assumed it meant Index Number, and has relied on that!

 

I also don't know where the "usually starts with a 20" comes from, as that appears to be wrong, as I think the licences on both my boats commence '90', not '20'. Not a very helpful way of confirming you are using the right number!

 

So it seems that they have come up with a scheme that relies on you able being able to read the number of your licence, (which should be on the boat, so not easily accessed by many non live-abords), or you having access to the invoice that they issued you when you last renewed, (which I expect a lot of people will not have).

 

And none of this addresses the question about how it will work with licences that renew on Jan 1st, (which as I said I think includes everybody with a Gold licence), and which people don't even need to have applied for yet, let alone actual have in their possession. (Quoting the number from your current licence that expires on Dec 31st would appear not to meet the requirement).

 

I see the possibility unless they get their act together very quickly, of an awful lot of people shouting "foul".

 

Pretty poor, I'd say - very frustrating.

Am shouting foul on waterscape now, the whole thing has developed into a shambles, as par for the norm really.

[alan_fincher]

Am shouting foul on waterscape now, the whole thing has developed into a shambles, as par for the norm really.

See the edit on the end of my post above. "Licence Number" and "Renewal Number" are two different things. I genuinely believe this is a real mess-up.

[jenlyn]

See the edit on the end of my post above. "Licence Number" and "Renewal Number" are two different things. I genuinely believe this is a real mess-up.

I will contact oddette in the morning, and ask for relevant information to be posted on waterscape

 

My link