Another survey question...!

[Queenofthenight]

I've been looking at buying a boat, which has a two year old survey on it. Just wondering how much damage could realistically be done to a hull in two years, and if I really need to get a new one? I totally understand why it's important to have a survey done, but it's also a massive cost, especially considering the tiny budget I'm operating with already!

 

Thanks,

 

Nara

[Bob the welder]

I've been looking at buying a boat, which has a two year old survey on it. Just wondering how much damage could realistically be done to a hull in two years, and if I really need to get a new one? I totally understand why it's important to have a survey done, but it's also a massive cost, especially considering the tiny budget I'm operating with already!

 

Thanks,

 

Nara

hi .how old is the boat .bob

[Rob@BSSOffice]

I've been looking at buying a boat, which has a two year old survey on it. Just wondering how much damage could realistically be done to a hull in two years, and if I really need to get a new one? I totally understand why it's important to have a survey done, but it's also a massive cost, especially considering the tiny budget I'm operating with already! Thanks,

Nara

 

For whom was the survey commissioned (rhetorical); to whom is the surveyor responsible and what rights would you have in law should the survey prove to be expensively flawed?

 

If you consider these questions, then you may be able to answer your own question.

 

Pre-purchase surveys are vital unless you a) can afford to lose all the purchase costs (sale price and ancillary costs) and b)have otherwise assured yourself of the safety of the craft by other means.

 

Regards

[Queenofthenight]

It's from 1981 Bob.

[wrigglefingers]

It's from 1981 Bob.

 

You need a survey, I'm afraid - it's too elderly to take the last one on trust and you will have no guarantee that the work that was detailed to be done previously actually was completed.

 

The way to go about it is this, put your deposit down and confirm the price subject to survey outcome. Get your survey done and then negotiate the price if necessary. You may find that the price you offered is a reasonable one or you may uncover potentially costly problems, you can then either walk away with the remainder of your money in your pocket but far wiser or you can negotiate sensibly.

 

As Rob said there are important legal aspects to be considered here, but mostly importantly you need to know that the boat is safe and worth your investment. I know it seems difficult when money is tight, but it is one area that you really shouldn't scrimp on. I, in partnership with a friend, did once (neither of us knew any better) and ended up paying more for the over-plating and re-fitting than the boat cost in the first place. Never again.

[howardang]

I've been looking at buying a boat, which has a two year old survey on it. Just wondering how much damage could realistically be done to a hull in two years, and if I really need to get a new one? I totally understand why it's important to have a survey done, but it's also a massive cost, especially considering the tiny budget I'm operating with already!

 

Thanks,

 

Nara

Only you can decide whether the cost is justified but ask yourself this; how confident would you be if you didn't have your own survey that the boat has no material defects which might cost you big money down the line?

 

In my view someone elses survey is out of date within a very short time - say weeks. For example, in the worst case the boat could have sunk the day after the survey, it could have major bottom deterioration/damage which would otherwise go undetected, etc. If you employ a good surveyor he may well be able to find deficiencies which could give you room to haggle about the purchase price and any reduction would help to offset the surveyors fees.

 

I would strongly urge you to have a survey for your own peace of mind.

 

Good luck with your purchase

 

Howard

[Rebotco]

It's from 1981 Bob.

 

Sorry, but you would definitely be best advised to have YOUR OWN survey on a 30 year old boat. Yes it is a little costly, but nowhere near as costly as finding yourself with a duffer.

 

Also if you are about to purchase, the survey will often show up more minor defects, which you may be able to use to negotiate a reduced price from the seller.

 

As Bob has pointed out someone else's previous survey will give you no protection whatever.

 

The survey I had on my first choice of purchase COST me £550 - but it SAVED me £32000!! (the hull was knackered and even the seller didn't know that).

 

Brian

[station tug]

there was someone on hear a few months ago,there son had bought a boat from memory i think it was 12k (could be very wrong)and shock horror it was taking on water because it was rotten,even a "cheap boat" isnt cheap in money terms be very careful, your first boat should hopefuly be a pleasurable expierience which will leave you woth some stunning memories..is it worth taking a gamble?? if you get it badly wrong ya on ya own and boat yards really know how to charge when ya trousers have been pulled down..

[Bob the welder]

It's from 1981 Bob.

hi.they are rite .81 is far to old not to have one .bob

[Starcoaster]

Yep I have to agree.

I just bought myself a boat on a very small budget (whatever you're working with, I bet mine was smaller!)

Even with a budget of just 7k I accepted that I was going to have to be prepared to shell out £500 of that on a survey.

 

Ultimately it worked out in the end that the seller of the boat I eventually bought had just commissioned a survey from a well respected surveyor as part of preparing it for sale, and used it to help determine the approximate value of the boat.

(Why he then placed it on ebay with no reserve so that I ended up getting it for just over half of what the generally accepted market value of the boat was is anyone's guess...)

The fact I didn't have to pay out myself for the survey in the end was just a happy bonus!

[davidc]

Yep I have to agree.

I just bought myself a boat on a very small budget (whatever you're working with, I bet mine was smaller!)

Even with a budget of just 7k I accepted that I was going to have to be prepared to shell out £500 of that on a survey.

 

Ultimately it worked out in the end that the seller of the boat I eventually bought had just commissioned a survey from a well respected surveyor as part of preparing it for sale, and used it to help determine the approximate value of the boat.

(Why he then placed it on ebay with no reserve so that I ended up getting it for just over half of what the generally accepted market value of the boat was is anyone's guess...)

The fact I didn't have to pay out myself for the survey in the end was just a happy bonus!

 

it was you winning personnalty that did it

[bottle]

Just one other thing not mentioned, you may well need an up to date survey to get a thirty year old boat insured.

[Queenofthenight]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I haven't seen the survey as yet, but the owner seems to think that it said the hull was in excellent condition and that it only had 0.5mm of pitting.

 

As for survey for insurance purposes, doesn't two years old count as in date?

[wrigglefingers]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I haven't seen the survey as yet, but the owner seems to think that it said the hull was in excellent condition and that it only had 0.5mm of pitting.

 

As for survey for insurance purposes, doesn't two years old count as in date?

 

The owner may well believe that the hull only has 0.5 mm of pitting but you need to know for yourself whether that is true. Moreover, the insurance will not necessarily accept a survey done for another person and they will say that a 2 year old survey is out-of-date.

 

If you are on a limited budget, why risk what you have? If you plunge everything into a 30 year old hull and it turns out to have problems then you will have an awful lot less. I do understand that it is hard to justify the additional cost but the stories of disastrous purchases are legion on the cut and there is a reason why we are (and some on here have decades of experience) saying get a survey done.

[bottle]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I haven't seen the survey as yet, but the owner seems to think that it said the hull was in excellent condition and that it only had 0.5mm of pitting.

 

As for survey for insurance purposes, doesn't two years old count as in date?

 

No because you are the 'new' owner and it is you that requires the boat insured and the insurance company will be a 'new' company.

 

If you stay with the same insurer then they may accept the 'old' (your new) survey in future years.

[Queenofthenight]

Fair enough!

 

Cheers for the advice guys, this is all very helpful stuff.

 

Nara

[wrigglefingers]

Fair enough!

 

Cheers for the advice guys, this is all very helpful stuff.

 

Nara

 

You're welcome, keep asking away and we'll try to help. Buying a boat ain't easy but nearly all of us have been where you are now.

[blackrose]

I've been looking at buying a boat, which has a two year old survey on it. Just wondering how much damage could realistically be done to a hull in two years, and if I really need to get a new one? I totally understand why it's important to have a survey done, but it's also a massive cost, especially considering the tiny budget I'm operating with already!

 

Thanks,

 

Nara

 

As far as I am concerned, a previous survey is a good basis on which to assess whether it's worth commisioning your own survey, but it isn't a substitute for it.

[Starcoaster]

With my insurers, once a boat is 25 years old they want a new survey every seven years.

I got fully comp for £80, which I am pretty happy with!

[Queenofthenight]

So many things to think about before taking the plunge (so to speak)!

[blackrose]

I've mentioned this story on the forum before, but for those who haven't heard it: I went to see a barge for sale at Penton Hook marina on the Thames several years ago. The vendor had bought it a few years earlier on the strength of a recent survey (not a survey he'd commissioned himself). About a year later he took the boat to a drydock for blacking and found severe pitting. After contacting a surveyor he then discovered that the hull thickness figures on the survey he'd looked at had been doctored by the previous owner, who by then was long gone and not contactable. The required hull repairs meant that he ended up about £10k out of pocket.

 

Learn from the mistakes of others!

Edited December 1, 2011 by blackrose

[Chris Pink]

I would certainly buy a boat on a 2 year old survey and the opinion of an experienced person if the boat wasn't over £20,000.

 

More than that and a new survey becomes a small proportion of price.

 

The surveyor is your 'experienced friend' - if you have no other and in these circumstances I would advise getting one done.

 

But then I also wouldn't advise buying any boat, surveyed or not, without an experienced eye to your needs.

[Queenofthenight]

I would certainly buy a boat on a 2 year old survey and the opinion of an experienced person if the boat wasn't over £20,000.

 

More than that and a new survey becomes a small proportion of price.

 

The surveyor is your 'experienced friend' - if you have no other and in these circumstances I would advise getting one done.

 

But then I also wouldn't advise buying any boat, surveyed or not, without an experienced eye to your needs.

 

This is very helpful and a good way to put it, thank you!

[Queenofthenight]

This isn't in any way connected to my original posting, but something I'd like to know. Perhaps if it should be moved to a new thread someone more knowledgeable could sort that out?

 

Has anyone had any problems with headroom on board narrow boats? I'm ok (5'3") but my partner is 6'3", and this is causing a problem when searching for boats. As if our budget wasn't a constraint enough, we now need to find a boat to fit him!

[Chris Pink]

This isn't in any way connected to my original posting, but something I'd like to know. Perhaps if it should be moved to a new thread someone more knowledgeable could sort that out?

 

Has anyone had any problems with headroom on board narrow boats? I'm ok (5'3") but my partner is 6'3", and this is causing a problem when searching for boats. As if our budget wasn't a constraint enough, we now need to find a boat to fit him!

 

6'3" will restrict the boats he will be comfortable on. I have a friend who bought a boat without headroom and had to sell it because of developing back problems.