Second hand battery

[NB Alnwick]

WHAT!! That sounds like nothing more than dangerous common sence to me! Dont you know that batteries on a boat have to be A1? Have you even thought of the consequences if they're not?

You lights would be dimmer for a start, in extreme cases you might have to use a torch to get to bed!! What about your water pump? I bet you didn't think of that did you? you'd have to pour water into the kettle from a Bottle!! And your telly wouldn't work!!! bet you wish youd spent £300 on a new bank now dont you? and dont forget the £300 charger to maintain them....oh and one of those smart thingys to tell yo that they're charged.....oh and dont forget the genny to charge them when away from shore power.

Its a good job Captain Cook didn't have your cavalier attitude to batteries.

 

What a strange post! Actually running on pre-owned batteries isn't so bad - we are still running on a bank of four that we bought secondhand on this forum for just £25 each - and that was three years ago . . .

[bizzard]

I and other have just spent time and effort giving you the best of our advise/ experience

 

Please take it or leave it ---------- I'M NOT BOTHERED

 

Alex

Also for those of us with limited internet data 1 Gorillabite per month on a dongle in my case which is usually sufficient for what i do,i'm not keen on wasting it on time wasters, as i'm sure many others are in the same boat,not to mention those with no land line and have to keep their George Foreman sandwich toasters batteries charged via their boats 12v supply.

[Grace and Favour]

WHAT!! That sounds like nothing more than dangerous common sence to me! Dont you know that batteries on a boat have to be A1? Have you even thought of the consequences if they're not?

You lights would be dimmer for a start, in extreme cases you might have to use a torch to get to bed!! What about your water pump? I bet you didn't think of that did you? you'd have to pour water into the kettle from a Bottle!! And your telly wouldn't work!!! bet you wish youd spent £300 on a new bank now dont you? and dont forget the £300 charger to maintain them....oh and one of those smart thingys to tell yo that they're charged.....oh and dont forget the genny to charge them when away from shore power.

Its a good job Captain Cook didn't have your cavalier attitude to batteries.

 

You're being unnecessarily rude, unpleasant, and sarcastic.

 

It's not warranted, other members don't deserve your abuse

[gary955]

What a strange post! Actually running on pre-owned batteries isn't so bad - we are still running on a bank of four that we bought secondhand on this forum for just £25 each - and that was three years ago . . .

 

IRONY:-

 

Irony is an implied discrepancy between what is said and what is meant.

[gary955]

You're being unnecessarily rude, unpleasant, and sarcastic.

 

It's not warranted, other members don't deserve your abuse

Actually I disagree

Anyone who suggests that the only sensible course of action at the first hint of trouble from a piece of equiptment is to dispose of it along with all similar pieces of equiptment of similar age and replace with new, does deserve a certain amount of scorn.

I agree that toilets and batteries attract the strongest opinions here but lets get real. we're not crossing oceans relying on our batteries for navigation. The consequences of total battery failure is.......inconvenience.

I dont belive it's economical to replace expensive batteries which may be perfectly servicable and didn't request anyones opinion on that subject, my original post was an enquiry about ways of assesing the health of a second hand battery

[Grace and Favour]

Actually I disagree

Anyone who suggests that the only sensible course of action at the first hint of trouble from a piece of equiptment is to dispose of it along with all similar pieces of equiptment of similar age and replace with new, does deserve a certain amount of scorn.

I agree that toilets and batteries attract the strongest opinions here but lets get real. we're not crossing oceans relying on our batteries for navigation. The consequences of total battery failure is.......inconvenience.

I dont belive it's economical to replace expensive batteries which may be perfectly servicable and didn't request anyones opinion on that subject, my original post was an enquiry about ways of assesing the health of a second hand battery

 

Tsk!

[Phil Ambrose]

WHAT!! That sounds like nothing more than dangerous common sence to me! Dont you know that batteries on a boat have to be A1? Have you even thought of the consequences if they're not?

You lights would be dimmer for a start, in extreme cases you might have to use a torch to get to bed!! What about your water pump? I bet you didn't think of that did you? you'd have to pour water into the kettle from a Bottle!! And your telly wouldn't work!!! bet you wish youd spent £300 on a new bank now dont you? and dont forget the £300 charger to maintain them....oh and one of those smart thingys to tell yo that they're charged.....oh and dont forget the genny to charge them when away from shore power.

Its a good job Captain Cook didn't have your cavalier attitude to batteries.

 

What a strange response , the fact is that sadly to get the best out of your electrical system you first have to invest a bit. When I first lived aboard some 10 years ago I made all the mistakes, cut corners etc but soon realised that this was totally wrong and set about finding out what I should really be doing to get some meaningful life out of my "lead" In my case I chose to get e decent Marine 4 stage charger, a Merlin Power gauge, an advanced alternator reg and a Hydrometer. Then made a point of checking my bank at regular intervals ensuring they were topped up and that there were no dead cells. I think that you have been given some good advice, heed it or not, your decision.

 

Phil

[Chris Pink]

Actually I disagree

Anyone who suggests that the only sensible course of action at the first hint of trouble from a piece of equiptment is to dispose of it along with all similar pieces of equiptment of similar age and replace with new, does deserve a certain amount of scorn.

I agree that toilets and batteries attract the strongest opinions here but lets get real. we're not crossing oceans relying on our batteries for navigation. The consequences of total battery failure is.......inconvenience.

I dont belive it's economical to replace expensive batteries which may be perfectly servicable and didn't request anyones opinion on that subject, my original post was an enquiry about ways of assesing the health of a second hand battery

 

I'm with you here mr 955, the derision you have attracted is unwarranted. For a start I know lots of boaters for whom batteries are expensive and much consideration has to be given to the point of their replacement, down to 30% of original capacity and to replace them at (minimum) £160 (and that's for crap), my bank costs £250 after carriage and all. Most of this abuse is coming from people who don't live off-grid.

 

The 'troll' comment is just another piece of forum crap - ignore it, it says more about that poster than you.

 

To answer your question; there is no meaningful static test of a leisure battery. It either has to be tested by charging it fully (a day) and then discharging it at known rate for another day - whilst maintaining the will to live. Or, as has been suggested make a judgement based on equality of SG, age and history.

 

Personally if it was a quality battery I would consider it with some kind of return agreement, if it was cheap I'd avoid it, use the 2 that are working (is that right?) until you can afford quality.

 

As Graham says you can get ok 2nd hand UPS batteries that will have had a consistent and monitored life.

 

However, your rant contained much truth (double irony). Batteries are simply storage, at least as much attention and money has to go on putting the power in

 

btw I don't use electric to pump water (except for the shower) that's a mug's game - a right waste of power.

[Rebotco]

WHAT!! That sounds like nothing more than dangerous common sence to me! Dont you know that batteries on a boat have to be A1? Have you even thought of the consequences if they're not?

You lights would be dimmer for a start, in extreme cases you might have to use a torch to get to bed!! What about your water pump? I bet you didn't think of that did you? you'd have to pour water into the kettle from a Bottle!! And your telly wouldn't work!!! bet you wish youd spent £300 on a new bank now dont you? and dont forget the £300 charger to maintain them....oh and one of those smart thingys to tell yo that they're charged.....oh and dont forget the genny to charge them when away from shore power.

Its a good job Captain Cook didn't have your cavalier attitude to batteries.

 

I don't see anything rude or outrageous in that. I read it as as a common way of making a valid point through irony. The trouble is that you have to hear the tone of voice and see the expression to best recognise that. Those who have complained have taken it (wrongly) literally. That's a limitation of the written word over the spoken. And probably a good reason to avoid irony on forums - too easily misunderstood.

 

Brian

[Naughty Cal]

Ok lets say you pay £25 for this second hand battery and on first appearances its seems OK. After all a week isnt long to test a battery. After a couple of months this and your existing batteries are starting to become more knackered, they all do nothing anyone can do about it. Youi are spending longer and longer with the engine/genny running to charge the three batteries. It isnt going to take long to spend the £225 in diesel that it would have cost you buy a set of three new batteries.

 

In the scheme of things batteries are not a massive expense in boating. Take a price of £75 for a typical 110 amp battery and three batteries for a bank and assume they last a few years from new and its only £75 per year. Far less than most other associated costs with boating.

[mrsmelly]

Ok lets say you pay £25 for this second hand battery and on first appearances its seems OK. After all a week isnt long to test a battery. After a couple of months this and your existing batteries are starting to become more knackered, they all do nothing anyone can do about it. Youi are spending longer and longer with the engine/genny running to charge the three batteries. It isnt going to take long to spend the £225 in diesel that it would have cost you buy a set of three new batteries.

 

In the scheme of things batteries are not a massive expense in boating. Take a price of £75 for a typical 110 amp battery and three batteries for a bank and assume they last a few years from new and its only £75 per year. Far less than most other associated costs with boating.

 

Stop talking sense Phylis tsk tsk its not wanted on this thread

[Frankieboy]

Some of you may know that I've killed one of my batterys. I've been offered a second hand but little used 110ah replacement for about half price but how do i know if its OK

My thoughts were charge it up and measure voltage and measure SG of each cell. Leave it standing for a week and measure again. If its much the same then perhaps it's OK.

Does that sound sensible?

 

Bugger!! Posted in the wrong section.

 

Don't necessarily be put off by second hand batteries. When I built my boat I bought 5 second hand batteries, as I had limited funding. They are still in and working great. I got them from Vinnie.

Thats not to say that theres no bad second hand batteries out there. Just keep a check on it when you get it.

[Proper Job]

Ok lets say you pay £25 for this second hand battery and on first appearances its seems OK. After all a week isnt long to test a battery. After a couple of months this and your existing batteries are starting to become more knackered, they all do nothing anyone can do about it. Youi are spending longer and longer with the engine/genny running to charge the three batteries. It isnt going to take long to spend the £225 in diesel that it would have cost you buy a set of three new batteries.

 

In the scheme of things batteries are not a massive expense in boating. Take a price of £75 for a typical 110 amp battery and three batteries for a bank and assume they last a few years from new and its only £75 per year. Far less than most other associated costs with boating.

It might not take long to spend that much in your boat, but that'll last most of us a couple of years.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with second hand batteries. If you can find out it's previous history (use), there are some good bargins out there.

 

Many forum people got second hand batteries fron Vinnie (no longer available ) and have had many years service from them. I put 5 of them in my boat for £125. Like Alnwick, mine are now 3 years old and finally showing signs of reduced performance.

 

If I could get more, I would. I'd be mad not to!

Edited December 1, 2011 by Proper Job

[bizzard]

I'm with you here mr 955, the derision you have attracted is unwarranted. For a start I know lots of boaters for whom batteries are expensive and much consideration has to be given to the point of their replacement, down to 30% of original capacity and to replace them at (minimum) £160 (and that's for crap), my bank costs £250 after carriage and all. Most of this abuse is coming from people who don't live off-grid.

 

The 'troll' comment is just another piece of forum crap - ignore it, it says more about that poster than you.

 

To answer your question; there is no meaningful static test of a leisure battery. It either has to be tested by charging it fully (a day) and then discharging it at known rate for another day - whilst maintaining the will to live. Or, as has been suggested make a judgement based on equality of SG, age and history.

 

Personally if it was a quality battery I would consider it with some kind of return agreement, if it was cheap I'd avoid it, use the 2 that are working (is that right?) until you can afford quality.

 

As Graham says you can get ok 2nd hand UPS batteries that will have had a consistent and monitored life.

 

However, your rant contained much truth (double irony). Batteries are simply storage, at least as much attention and money has to go on putting the power in

 

btw I don't use electric to pump water (except for the shower) that's a mug's game - a right waste of power.

I've built in a small foot operated pump in a little recess below my sink to pump cold water to the cold tap in case of pump or battery failure,but i tend to use it all the time.

[smileypete]

Some of you may know that I've killed one of my batterys. I've been offered a second hand but little used 110ah replacement for about half price but how do i know if its OK

My thoughts were charge it up and measure voltage and measure SG of each cell. Leave it standing for a week and measure again. If its much the same then perhaps it's OK.

Does that sound sensible?

Give it a FULL charge and do a discharge test at 5 or 6 amps. Then give it a FULL charge once again and see if it will start a boat engine on it's own easily.

 

In a bank the best way to see if it's playing OK with the others would be check the S.G. (specific gravity) of them all regularly.

 

Even so I wouldn't pay that much more than scrap value.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[gary955]

Well I hope that Bob18 didn't miss the irony in my reply to him, until this morning his voice was one of the few voices of sanity on this thread and I certainly intended no offence to him.

For those of you who insist that I have my head in the sand over batterys heres why I find your opinion irksome (without irony so as to make it easy for you to understand)

I bought my boat a little less than 2 years ago, and therefore by definition, bought a second hand set of 3 batterys. I know I should have imidiatly replaced them with new Phylis for "peace of mind" but I didn't (sorry Phylis, just cant help being sarcastic to you)

I have a single solar panel with some sort of simple charge controler, and an adverc conroller on the alternator. I live on board Monday to Friday and have done since I bought the boat.

In two summers I have NEVER run the engine expressly for battery charging and never saw the batterys below 12.7 v This summer I've been on a marina and have not run the engine for months at a time. I have used no mains battery charging until this week.

For much of last winter I was CCing and would run the engine once every other week to charge the batterys and occasionally to heat water if I didn't shower at work (Actually I ran the engine twice a fortnight but one of those would be to move the boat)Batterys never below 12.7v

Recently I discovered my bank down to 11.7v It was suggested on another thread that I may have a duff battery. I took the suspect battery out of the bank and the other two have bounced back to 12.7v. I've been offered a nearly new replacement for the duffer for about £50 (half price)

Should I really throw the whole bank over the side? (dont take that literally)and replace with three new ones.....REALLY??

I've revived the two remaining batterys with a bulk charge from the engine followed by 36 hrs on a car battery charger. should I really invest in a £300 battery charger......Honestly??

Did one of the more sensible contributors to this thread made a reference to low impact living? or living off grid? I'm not a tree hugger by any means but dumping lead batterys when they could be useful cant be enviromentaly sound.....in fact disposing of anything before it's exhausted is needlessly wasteful.....isn't it?

[bizzard]

Give it a FULL charge and do a discharge test at 5 or 6 amps. Then give it a FULL charge once again and see if it will start a boat engine on it's own easily.

 

In a bank the best way to see if it's playing OK with the others would be check the S.G. (specific gravity) of them all regularly.

 

Even so I wouldn't pay that much more than scrap value.

 

cheers,

Pete.

And the scrap value of that weight of battery is about between £8 and £10 pounds each at the mo,around here anyway.

[Chris Pink]

Well I hope that Bob18 didn't miss the irony in my reply to him, until this morning his voice was one of the few voices of sanity on this thread and I certainly intended no offence to him.

For those of you who insist that I have my head in the sand over batterys heres why I find your opinion irksome (without irony so as to make it easy for you to understand)

I bought my boat a little less than 2 years ago, and therefore by definition, bought a second hand set of 3 batterys. I know I should have imidiatly replaced them with new Phylis for "peace of mind" but I didn't (sorry Phylis, just cant help being sarcastic to you)

I have a single solar panel with some sort of simple charge controler, and an adverc conroller on the alternator. I live on board Monday to Friday and have done since I bought the boat.

In two summers I have NEVER run the engine expressly for battery charging and never saw the batterys below 12.7 v This summer I've been on a marina and have not run the engine for months at a time. I have used no mains battery charging until this week.

For much of last winter I was CCing and would run the engine once every other week to charge the batterys and occasionally to heat water if I didn't shower at work (Actually I ran the engine twice a fortnight but one of those would be to move the boat)Batterys never below 12.7v

Recently I discovered my bank down to 11.7v It was suggested on another thread that I may have a duff battery. I took the suspect battery out of the bank and the other two have bounced back to 12.7v. I've been offered a nearly new replacement for the duffer for about £50 (half price)

Should I really throw the whole bank over the side? (dont take that literally)and replace with three new ones.....REALLY??

I've revived the two remaining batterys with a bulk charge from the engine followed by 36 hrs on a car battery charger. should I really invest in a £300 battery charger......Honestly??

Did one of the more sensible contributors to this thread made a reference to low impact living? or living off grid? I'm not a tree hugger by any means but dumping lead batterys when they could be useful cant be enviromentaly sound.....in fact disposing of anything before it's exhausted is needlessly wasteful.....isn't it?

 

The thing that puzzles me Mr 955 is why you don't just carry on with 2 batteries if cost is an issue?

 

eta: especially if you're in a marina.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Chris Pink

[gary955]

The thing that puzzles me Mr 955 is why you don't just carry on with 2 batteries if cost is an issue?

 

eta: especially if you're in a marina.

Hmmmm...I suppose, the thought that my 3 battery bank has served me well up to now, and my intention to leave the marina in the spring. Perhaps though, given my modest 12v usage, two might be enough

[bizzard]

Hmmmm...I suppose, the thought that my 3 battery bank has served me well up to now, and my intention to leave the marina in the spring. Perhaps though, given my modest 12v usage, two might be enough

Two probably will be sufficient.I always recommend the least amount of batteries that you can get away with the better,as your more likely to be able to keep them charged up. I only have one 110 amp,but have another alongside with its own isolation switch so that i can switch it in if nec when on the towpath to save bothering other folk by running my engine.If i'm careful i can go several days on one battery without charging at all.

[deletedaccount]

two is plenty if you're on a shoreline!

Edited December 1, 2011 by deletedaccount

[Naughty Cal]

£50 for a second hand battery. You must be off your rocker

[deletedaccount]

tbf, the 25 quid ones from vince were worth 150 quid each new or something. Mine have been in the boat two years and done sterling service. Probably need replacing in the spring though.

 

The ones I replaced with vince's are still in another boat and working!

[Bob18]

Gary, rest assured the irony of what you said was not lost on me.

[Sir Nibble]

Only £75 eh, let them eat cake.