What if C&RT doesnt work - where then?

[Laurence Hogg]

I will give you an example of the gross incompetance that exists in Watford, its only small but hugely representitive of the lack of commitment by the staff.

Here it is, this was my idea hatched between Simon Salem and myself based on the penetration of my media to certain markets, a prepaid card to register your interest:

 

 

I started putting a couple of these in every DVD we sold over 18 months ago, the idea was, if someone will pay out a reasonable sum for the media then they or someone they know has a genuine interest in the subject. Well it worked and many have returned to BW.

 

So before the BW AGM and with stocks of the card low I requested more stock but updated with the new name and logo as with xmas approaching sales should be good. Not too difficult a change to do, most of us with a basic bit of image manipulation and text would spend 10 minutes on it at best. I even offered to do it for them!

 

Not so BW. having chased them several times, a direct email complaoning to Simon Salem was sent, next day a package arrived - guess what?

It had a note "found these, havent had time to reprint", so I am sending out cards without the C&RT logo or information!! Do they really care?

 

Are they just going through the motions? does anyone in Watford even understand the transition, the importance of marketing? I think not.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Guest]

Nero sings, while Rome burns. The ad men/women will be hard at it throwing sunshine and light onto the situation.

 

No one wants to see C&RT fail, but people say it's prudent to look to the future with an eye on the past. It's not easy to take it for granted that all will be well. Looking after the canal hasn't been easy and probably won't change on that score.

 

I think on top of whatever grant we have, the goverment should consider a one-off slush fund for dire needs. The initial bedding down phase of the charity will be difficult, like most businesses. There doesn't seem to be any apparent logic to the run up and finance. Either they are the most optimistic people around or are just trying to wing it.

There are undoubtedly difficult times ahead, just as there have been in the past. I remember getting dragged to various rallies as a kid to protest against canal closures.

 

I have similar concerns over the lack of forethought being shown by various bodies.

 

I will give you an example of the gross incompetance that exists in Watford, its only small but hugely representitive of the lack of commitment by the staff.

Here it is:

 

 

I started putting a couple of these in every DVD we sold over 18 months ago, the idea was, if someone will pay out a reasonable sum for the media then they or someone they know has a genuine interest in the subject. Well it worked and many have returned to BW.

 

So before the BW AGM and with stocks of the card low I requested more stock but updated with the new name and logo as with xmas approaching sales should be good. Not too difficult a change to do, most of us with a basic bit of image manipulation and text would spend 10 minutes on it at best. I even offered to do it for them!

 

Not so BW. having chased them several times, a direct email complaoning to Simon Salem was sent, next day a package arrived - guess what?

It had a note "found these, havent had time to reprint", so I am sending out cards without the C&RT logo or information!! Do they really care?

 

Are they just going through the motions? does anyone in Watford even understand the transition, the importance of marketing? I think not.

I think they possibly understand, but as you ask in the previous paragraph: "Do they care?"

[Higgs]

I will give you an example of the gross incompetance that exists in Watford, its only small but hugely representitive of the lack of commitment by the staff.

Here it is, this was my idea hatched between Simon Salem and myself based on the penetration of my media to certain markets, a prepaid card to register your interest:

 

 

I started putting a couple of these in every DVD we sold over 18 months ago, the idea was, if someone will pay out a reasonable sum for the media then they or someone they know has a genuine interest in the subject. Well it worked and many have returned to BW.

 

So before the BW AGM and with stocks of the card low I requested more stock but updated with the new name and logo as with xmas approaching sales should be good. Not too difficult a change to do, most of us with a basic bit of image manipulation and text would spend 10 minutes on it at best. I even offered to do it for them!

 

Not so BW. having chased them several times, a direct email complaoning to Simon Salem was sent, next day a package arrived - guess what?

It had a note "found these, havent had time to reprint", so I am sending out cards without the C&RT logo or information!! Do they really care?

 

Are they just going through the motions? does anyone in Watford even understand the transition, the importance of marketing? I think not.

 

Their relunctance might be because it isn't done and dusted. I couldn't find them registered as a charity. This won't happen until the new year. The Public Bodies bill has to be passed in parliament, before they can get rid of the Quango and Register the Charity.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Higgs

[Laurence Hogg]

Their relunctance might be because it isn't done and dusted. I couldn't find them registered as a charity. This won't happen until the new year. The Public Bodies bill has to be passed in parliament, before they can get rid of the Quango and Register the Charity.

 

That may well be true, but the real strong point was that I hadnt any of any design to send out and it took a bump from senior managemant to get them despite them being requested weeks before. To not have had them would have meant a targeted marketing oppurtunity missed. Last year the replacment stock arrived in January - need I say anything else?

[Higgs]

That may well be true, but the real strong point was that I hadnt any of any design to send out and it took a bump from senior managemant to get them despite them being requested weeks before. To not have had them would have meant a targeted marketing oppurtunity missed. Last year the replacment stock arrived in January - need I say anything else?

 

Yes, they seem to be slow at support. My thought was that they probably would not want to pre-empt the transfer by sending out literature with the new logo on.

[sociable_hermit]

As dodwell states in his reply to the boaters manifesto, "robin Evans and co will stay on"

That's that f*cked, then.

 

I have written to my MP to point out that Evans & Co. have been monumentally ineffective so far, and BW as a whole seem to have some severe organisational failings. Not holding my breath for the reply, though.

 

The good news is that CaRT may well become a significant bench test of "Big Society" thinking. That puts it into the political mainstream, and Ministers are likely to take a far greater interest in how the transition is handled than would otherwise have been the case.

 

It's in the interest of boaters to keep that association very much alive, to get CaRT off to a good start. It's inevitable the interest will wane quickly, but if a well-organised, well-funded organisation is already in place by then, the job's a good 'un.

 

Somehow I can't see that happening with the current muppets in charge, so that's first on my list. Keep Evans on board = epic Big Society fail coming right up. Keep telling the Ministers and the papers that, and something might change.

[Laurence Hogg]

Another "observation" with BW attitudes in this run up to C&RT is there obvious ignoring of well set up and working voluntary orginisations. Lets take the WI for instance, been around since 1915 ish, gets stuck in in times of problems and is extremely efficently ran, surely they have something to offer BW? and then nearer home is WRG, again ignored? Perhaphs the sphere where BW might look for systems to copy and emulate would be within the railway preservation field? here major restorations have taken place (Welsh Highland), new locomotives built (Tornado), major disasters repaired (Severn Valley, all by independant operators, orginisations and volunteers.

 

As for being part of the "The big society" arent these orginisations such as WI and WRG already members? I noted the TV launch of this "Big society" last week in Peckham, a totally unconvincing bit of tv (and no mention of BW either!).

 

I for one am totally convinced Evans & co are NOT fully suited to make the change, not in real terms equipped and if they do so, they will do so for their benefits and then run after the first year.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[jenlyn]

That's that f*cked, then.

 

I have written to my MP to point out that Evans & Co. have been monumentally ineffective so far, and BW as a whole seem to have some severe organisational failings. Not holding my breath for the reply, though.

 

The good news is that CaRT may well become a significant bench test of "Big Society" thinking. That puts it into the political mainstream, and Ministers are likely to take a far greater interest in how the transition is handled than would otherwise have been the case.

 

It's in the interest of boaters to keep that association very much alive, to get CaRT off to a good start. It's inevitable the interest will wane quickly, but if a well-organised, well-funded organisation is already in place by then, the job's a good 'un.

 

Somehow I can't see that happening with the current muppets in charge, so that's first on my list. Keep Evans on board = epic Big Society fail coming right up. Keep telling the Ministers and the papers that, and something might change.

Even Cameron's backbenchers are distancing themselves from his Big Society, so I think you can safely say its dead and buried

[Mick and Maggie]

Even Cameron's backbenchers are distancing themselves from his Big Society, so I think you can safely say its dead and buried

 

But it's good to remind them of their cock-ups and not to let them off the hook.

 

Some background here.

[14skipper]

But it's good to remind them of their cock-ups and not to let them off the hook.

 

Some background here.

 

Thats it then if C&RT fails its all Cameron"s fault (again).

 

14skipper.

[Laurence Hogg]

Lets summize through evil or bad luck, even lack of supporters, C&RT fails. What does the goverment do?

 

Cue DEFRA. They will ask DEFRA to seek experts in the field to help sort the waterways, just as now if DEFRA need "expertise" on a waterways subject they go to their experts.

 

Who are these experts?

 

Well at no suprise, its British Waterways, yes DEFRA thinks they are the ONLY people with real in depth knowledge of dealing with Inland waterways.

 

So with a failed C&RT they go back to the now retired BW management and offer them a deal they cant refuse, welcome back to British Waterways Mk3, imagine the scene, a slightly aged overgonged filthy rich man will rise from the CEO seat with the words "I am passionate about our waterways" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Edited November 26, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[magpie patrick]

Weren't they (the BW ones) extinguished with the 1968 Transport Act...

 

On BW waters, rights of navigation were extinguished on canals and artificial cuts where BW were the Riparian owners by the 1968 Act, so yes

 

As dodwell states in his reply to the boaters manifesto, "robin Evans and co will stay on"

 

I have direct experience and I know both of them: I'd trust Evans over Dodwell, and that is not a glowing endorsement of Evans, assuming either can work out who Magpie Patrick is my email inbox will be very active shortly

[Higgs]

Lets summize through evil or bad luck, even lack of supporters, C&RT fails. What does the goverment do?

 

 

Going to have to give the new people a chance. Throwing stones makes the arm tired. 5 guinesses every day till April and you'll be fit for anything......Sorry, forgot about the 6 hours at the gym.

[jenlyn]

On BW waters, rights of navigation were extinguished on canals and artificial cuts where BW were the Riparian owners by the 1968 Act, so yes

 

 

 

I have direct experience and I know both of them: I'd trust Evans over Dodwell, and that is not a glowing endorsement of Evans, assuming either can work out who Magpie Patrick is my email inbox will be very active shortly

Some of Dodwells remarks made me feel wary of him, and stuck in the back of my mind was a comment you made a couple of months back, your stating that there were some that should not be in their seemed to have a ring of contempt with it, that's how I read it at the time, no offence. It just stuck with me

[tillergirl]

Going to have to give the new people a chance. Throwing stones makes the arm tired. 5 guinesses every day till April and you'll be fit for anything......Sorry, forgot about the 6 hours at the gym.

 

I agree..........should we not give these people a chance before we starting ripping them to shreds?

 

 

 

[greywolf]

I agree..........should we not give these people a chance before we starting ripping them to shreds?

 

But they are the same people who are running it now .What is going to change when it becomes the new charity.Besides it's a British tradition to do so.

[Rebotco]

But they are the same people who are running it now .What is going to change when it becomes the new charity.Besides it's a British tradition to do so.

 

Not exactly - have a look at Post No.76 in the "Boaters Manifesto" thread.

Brian

[14skipper]

I agree..........should we not give these people a chance before we starting ripping them to shreds?

 

No perish the thought ! lets tear them to shreds now.And then when it goes tits up we can all say told you so.

 

14skipper

[Sir Nibble]

The towpaths could be maintained by the fishing, cycling and rambling organizations.LOL Then again maybe not

That's a bloody good idea. Instead of boaters paying for the upkeep of the towpath that is most used by cyclists anglers and walkers, make them pay for it. Boaters must be the minority users of the towpath and since anglers for instance have never given priority to boaters they cannot expect it just because they are paying for a change. In fact perhaps there should be "angling only" areas of towpath with signs and little stools, then we could moor there and use the "no mooring" signs to tie up to much the same as anglers sit on white bollards.

[MtB]

I think the sh!t will really hit the fan when, after a couple of years of kicking the maintenance can down the road, C&RT are judged to be 'succeeding' and given the Thames to look after too.

 

The number of millionaires, politicians, captains of industry and generally powerful people whose gardens slope down to the banks of the Thames must run into four figures if not five. Once C&RT are seen to be fecking up management of the Thames I think we can expect to see some real arse-kicking to begin.

 

Whoever is running the show when this scenario comes to pass he is in for one helluva wake-up, and the resulting improvements in management attitudes and competence will probably rub off onto the canals too. Not only that but the prospects for funding will prolly improve too when management of ALL the waterways get lumped into one organisation.

 

(Edited tro correct spelling.)

Edited November 27, 2011 by Mike the Boilerman

[Laurence Hogg]

I think the sh!t will really hit the fan when, after a couple of years of kicking the maintenance can down the road, C&RT are judged to be 'succeeding' and given the Thames to look after too.

 

The number of millionaires, politicians, captains of industry and generally powerful people whose gardens slope down to the banks of the Thames must run into four figures if not five. Once C&RT are seen to be fecking up management of the Thames I think we can expect to see some real arse-kicking to begin.

 

Whoever is running the show when this scenario comes to pass he is in for one helluva wake-up, and the resulting improvements in management attitudes and competence will probably rub off onto the canals too. Not only that but the prospects for funding will prolly improve too when management of ALL the waterways get lumped into one organisation.

 

(Edited tro correct spelling.)

 

My old pal who started this line of thinking and spurred me to start this thread is one such person, a house and garden fronting onto the Thames!

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I have direct experience and I know both of them: I'd trust Evans over Dodwell, and that is not a glowing endorsement of Evans, assuming either can work out who Magpie Patrick is my email inbox will be very active shortly

 

I think Patrick might be right on this.

 

With regard to CART, my understanding is that Dodwell is the transition trustee lead on funding. Do we believe Dodwell with his £20 funding gap for each of the first 10 years of CART or do we believe Evans who says the funding gap is increasing and was £39m last year (2010/11).

 

My inclination is to trust Evans over Dodwell, particularly as Evans is nearer to my own figure and that of IWA (variously stated as £45m and over £40m).

 

However, do we trust IWA? The IWA's 'call to arms' mentions the Dodwell figure of £20m and totally ignores its own figure.

 

It seems to me that that the public has been set up and CART will be grossly underfunded.

 

If CART does not fail in the early years then what happens when government support is withdrawn in 2022?

[Laurence Hogg]

Some of Dodwells remarks made me feel wary of him, and stuck in the back of my mind was a comment you made a couple of months back, your stating that there were some that should not be in their seemed to have a ring of contempt with it, that's how I read it at the time, no offence. It just stuck with me

 

My personal experience of Mr Dodwell isnt good. He sent us emails of support for the campaign over the Smethwick coal chutes in 2006, promised a presence of HNBOC at discussions and nothing and no one every materialised.

He seems great at sending one liners in forums like "Has anyone contacted the council?" that he never follows up - if hes that commited why not do it himself??

 

I dont think Roger Hanbury should have been the person to choose these people, he simply doesnt know the full picture enough.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Allan(nb Albert)]

My personal experience of Mr Dodwell isnt good. He sent us emails of support for the campaign over the Smethwick coal chutes in 2006, promised a presence of HNBOC at discussions and nothing and no one every materialised.

He seems great at sending one liners in forums like "Has anyone contacted the council?" that he never follows up - if hes that commited why not do it himself??

 

I dont think Roger Hanbury should have been the person to choose these people, he simply doesnt know the full picture enough.

 

His recent activities on Facebook leave something to be desired, particularly in his defence of executive directors and not coming clean on transition trustees going in low on Defra funding.

[Laurence Hogg]

His recent activities on Facebook leave something to be desired, particularly in his defence of executive directors and not coming clean on transition trustees going in low on Defra funding.

 

Allan, probably like a few on here I am not a great follower of Facebook, could you expand on this detail?