Boaters to join CaRT

[fuzzyduck]

Yes it would, and no it wouldn't be a good thing.

 

The IWA are just one of many organisations that represent boaters, and if all 4 elected councilors are the 4 put up by the IWA, boaters who are not members of the IWA will have no repreentation. I checked out the IWA with a view to joining a couple of years back, and theirs and my interests didn't meet anywhere.

 

This would be a disaster in my book.

Edited December 16, 2011 by fuzzyduck

[alan_fincher]

So who appoints the non-elected boating representative? (4 elected, 1 appointed)

A bit of digging in an FAQ document that I can find via Google, but not easily via any link from Waterscape says....

 

The Private Boaters constituency includes one nominated member as representative of boaters without individual licences and the British Canoe Union will be invited to nominate such member.

 

So it's the answer I gave to Janet S I think - non BW licence holder "boaters" do have a representative, but that representative looks like they are going to have one very specific interest - canoeing.

 

At least I don't think the British Canoe Union is an IWA subsidiary, (is it ?).

[fuzzyduck]

I was considering running a piss take campaign, I have now cancelled this idea because i think it's vitally important that the IWA don't get all 4 seats.

[matty40s]

I was considering running a piss take campaign, I have now cancelled this idea because i think it's vitally important that the IWA don't get all 4 seats.

 

The IWA were the one organisation that wanted BW to proceed with it's stupid , unresearched,and unworkable River Lee and Stort moorings proposals.

They were far more interested in having a BBQ at their chosen spot on one of their two weeks out a year than giving consideration to the infrastructure damage, fish losses, enviromental issues, loss of water etc etc etc that they would have caused.

[Laurence Hogg]

I was considering running a piss take campaign, I have now cancelled this idea because i think it's vitally important that the IWA don't get all 4 seats.

 

I would second that. The IWA has had its day, it is not what it set out to be nor now will it ever be in my opinion. I would rather see four boaters elected who are long term owners and understand the full problems of being afloat and navigation issues. The IWA isnt up to speed, who else would NOT hold a National festival in the Olympic year??

Edited December 16, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[cotswoldsman]

But how would someone (anyone) know whether to nominate them if they don't know what the prospective candidate stands for?

 

Tony

 

Because 40 boating members of IWA would nominate them just on the basis that they are members of that organisation and at council would always promote IWA views.

 

Edited to say actually they only need 10 boating members as licenced boaters van nominate as many people as they want.

Edited December 17, 2011 by cotswoldsman

[Allan(nb Albert)]

At least I don't think the British Canoe Union is an IWA subsidiary, (is it ?).

BCU is an IWA corporate member.

[alan_fincher]

BCU is an IWA corporate member.

Thanks,

 

I took a quick look at their site, but if there was an obvious IWA reference I missed it - thanks for the clarification.

 

I have yet to work out why a canoeist union has been selected for the one place allocated specifically as a "boater" place. There are lots of people, like hire boaters and share boaters, who are very much "boaters" but don't meet the qualifications for being able to cast a vote for the four electable positions.

 

I have nothing against canoeists, but there doesn't seem to be any great rationale to me for making that the one non-elected post specifically for "boaters".

[matty40s]

Thanks,

 

I took a quick look at their site, but if there was an obvious IWA reference I missed it - thanks for the clarification.

 

I have yet to work out why a canoeist union has been selected for the one place allocated specifically as a "boater" place. There are lots of people, like hire boaters and share boaters, who are very much "boaters" but don't meet the qualifications for being able to cast a vote for the four electable positions.

 

I have nothing against canoeists, but there doesn't seem to be any great rationale to me for making that the one non-elected post specifically for "boaters".

 

I'm a boater with a canoe.........

 

hope this adds clarity.

[fuzzyduck]

I think to be fair to C&RT, it'd be bloody hard to find commited hirers, I know there are loads, but there are probably 1000's who tried it once, and ran screaming for the hills. Certainly round my way, boatyards don't seem to practice CRM, so I suspect no one really knows who has hired, and who hasn't.

 

It would be interesting to ask the 4 IWA candidates how they're each going to insure they represent all boaters views.

 

I have a canoe too.

Edited December 17, 2011 by fuzzyduck

[carlt]

 

It would be interesting to ask the 4 IWA candidates how they're each going to insure they represent all boaters views.

They're not.

 

The IWA isnt a boater's association, it is a waterways association as it states on the home page of its website:

 

 

 

Find out more about us, boating, walking, cycling, and angling and freight on Britain's inland waterways.

[cotswoldsman]

OK so we go through the complete election process and the the Trustees decide they do not like who is elected and invoke this clause

 

4.1 Every potential member of Council, whether elected, nominated or co-opted will have

to be ratified by the Council‟s Appointments Committee as a person „fit and proper‟ to

hold the appointment. In all normal circumstances we would expect this to be a

formality

 

Looks like IWA will have 1 member for the boaters council

 

5.1.1 At outset:

 4 members elected from licence holders database (one vote per licence)

 1 member nominated by an organisation that is representative of a substantial

number of boaters that use waterways but who are not individual licence holdersThereafter:

 an additional elected member in the event of a substantial growth in number of

licenced vessels (possibly triggered at 50,000 licences)

 

 

Again being elected is no gaurantee that you will be on the council guess you have to be sure your face fits or have been to the right school.

5.1.2 Elected Members

All BW/CRT private boat licence holders will be entitled to one vote (shared

ownership boats will only have one vote). The TAC will ask the Electoral Reform

Services, the service arm of the Electoral Reform Society, to run the elections on its

behalf. The winners of the election will then be put forward for ratification by the

Appointments Committee of Council.

 

 

Looks like the canoeists will have a member

 

5.1.3 Nominated Members

There are a large number of private boaters who do not themselves hold a licence.

Canoeists are by far the largest number (circa 60k individual and club members) who

use the waterways under a collective licence held by the British Canoe Union.

We have therefore decided that the BCU be asked to nominate a representative. In

due course it may be possible for the BCU to elect a representative using their

membership database.

 

 

IWA could also get in this way

 

5.3.1 At outset:

 1 member nominated by an organisation that is representative of a substantial

number of waterway volunteers

 

[Higgs]

Looking ahead. Boaters are going to need a point of contact/communication with the council and Vice versa. A dedicated website would be a possible route. It's going to be difficult to be organised if contact is spread all over the place. A one-place office for council matters.

 

The boating group representation is for all boaters and all boaters should have a place that will allow boaters to participate and find up to date information, raise concerns, and be informed.

 

If a council had existed, at the time of the 'manifesto', representing all boaters, some sort of authenticity may have been confered on that undertaking.

 

It would also be a place where council members, through contact with boaters, have the information to determine which areas concern boaters the most.

 

Should all the four members of the council be made up of IWA members, not likely, I would definitely want to see that they aren't running their own little club.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Higgs

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

Should all the four members of the council be made up of IWA members, not likely, I would definitely want to see that they aren't running their own little club.

 

Not that I would expect to many people to be interested in my opinion I am not going to post them on here but they are on my website for anyone that is interested Link to My Website

[alan_fincher]

Should all the four members of the council be made up of IWA members, not likely, I would definitely want to see that they aren't running their own little club.

 

I'm not sure I agree with "not likely".

 

Highly possible, I would have thought, unless people are very proactive in ensuring it doesn't happen.

 

They claim "over 17,000 members", and whilst there is probably no easy way of finding out how many of that 17,000 are private boat owners eligible to vote in the CaRT election, it is clearly a very sizeable number.

 

Even if it is say less than a quarter of total IWA membership, if 4,000 IWA members who own boats just follow the IWA party line, that is a big target for anybody else who is "independent" to be able to beat.

 

Unfortunately I think it is "highly likely" that support by a big organisation will guarantee a large number of votes for these candidates, but I really do think it would simply be a bad result if all "boater" places ended up thus filled.

 

The problem is there will be a lot of very good "independent" candidates, not supported by an organisation, and this will result in massive splitting of the votes between the many candidates in this category.

 

I am not deterred, but under no illusions about how some candidates will have a big "head start" simply because their names appear as an association's recommendations.

 

The election rules don't disallow it, so we have to work within what is actually happening.

[cotswoldsman]

Alan spot on. I see NABO are also putting up a candidate Link to NABO Candidate

[fuzzyduck]

At least if he gets in, it wont just be the shiny narrowboat brigade.

[Higgs]

Not that I would expect to many people to be interested in my opinion I am not going to post them on here but they are on my website for anyone that is interested Link to My Website

 

Had a quick look and will dip in some more.

 

I might have to vote for the forum member I think is the most popular, in the hope that it might be the only way to avoid the 'club-clique'.

[cotswoldsman]

Had a quick look and will dip in some more.

 

I might have to vote for the forum member I think is the most popular, in the hope that it might be the only way to avoid the 'club-clique'.

 

I think I will vote for a CWDF and do everything I can to ensure they get elected.

[jenlyn]

Numbers are going to count here, we really need to get together and put personal opinions aside. I favour Alan for the position, but if Dave got a bigger vote, I would be with him 100%. That's how it has to be. I am also writing a strong worded letter to IWA voicing my disapproval of their tactics. Clive Henderson should not be in the running for this position.

[fuzzyduck]

As much as I hate to say this Clive n co are only doing their best for their paying members. Personally Ive said if the 4 get in it'll be a disaster for the waterways. But the retired middle class boater, with a nice shiny leisure narrowboat should do fine.

[Higgs]

I'm going to vote for a CWDF member. But, may have to vote tactically to help one with the best chance.

[cotswoldsman]

As I have said I do not care who gets in as long as they are 100% focused on boaters concerns and not being pressured by interested groups with there own agenda, that is why I will be supporting the 2 members from here who have said they will stand.

[fuzzyduck]

Me too, but my fall back vote will go to the NABO guy. Because I would like to see a non liveaboard, cruiser owner with a seat. His interests and mine cannot be that far apart.

[Higgs]

As I have said I do not care who gets in as long as they are 100% focused on boaters concerns and not being pressured by interested groups with there own agenda, that is why I will be supporting the 2 members from here who have said they will stand.

 

I agree. Both candidates are capable. But, as concerns have been raised over the chance of boating associations gaining too much clout, I'm going to be a tart and vote for the most popular CWDF candidate.